According to some, there is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction.

[Miss Taken Identity]

If the police had been called straight away,   they would have been asked if they had searched the surrounding area,  to which they would have had to reply 'no'  the reply then would have been 'search around the area first'  it is what any parents would do before calling the police no matter what their feelings are to what had happened to their child.

Yes- if your child was thought to be 'missing'
No- if thought to have been abducted!

it could be that Kate said she was missing and then changed this to her being abducted.. we don' know. Kate circumstantial evidence is: 'she  said' abduction.

[Lace]

Yes- if your child was thought to be 'missing'
No- if thought to have been abducted!

it could be that Kate said she was missing and then changed this to her being abducted.. we don' know. Kate circumstantial evidence is: 'she  said' abduction.

A frantic mother finding her child missing says she thinks she has been abducted,  for goodness sake,  you don't just scream down the phone 'my child has been abducted'   you search the surrounding area first,  then if she isn't found THEN you ring the police,  you would have more credibility if you are able to say 'look my child who is under four wasn't in her bed when I checked,  the window was open and we have searched where she could have wandered and we haven't found her, we fear  she could have been abducted'.

[Robittybob1]

A frantic mother finding her child missing says she thinks she has been abducted,  for goodness sake,  you don't just scream down the phone 'my child has been abducted'   you search the surrounding area first,  then if she isn't found THEN you ring the police,  you would have more credibility if you are able to say 'look my child who is under four wasn't in her bed when I checked,  the window was open and we have searched where she could have wandered and we haven't found her, we fear  she could have been abducted'.

I don't disagree with the idea of checking the surrounding area first, but then they should at least say it is possible that Madeleine could have got outside.

[Lace]

I don't disagree with the idea of checking the surrounding area first, but then they should at least say it is possible that Madeleine could have got outside.

The McCann's say they don't think Madeleine would have wandered out,  they know their child and to go out through the patio doors it is unlikely a child of that age would turn and shut the door and the gate and leave everything how it was.   However,  the police would say she could have wandered out,  either through the patio doors or the front door.   So it makes sense to make sure Madeleine hadn't wandered out doesn't it?   Even if you know your child wouldn't have you search just in case.

[Wonderfulspam]

The McCann's say they don't think Madeleine would have wandered out,  they know their child and to go out through the patio doors it is unlikely a child of that age would turn and shut the door and the gate and leave everything how it was.   However,  the police would say she could have wandered out,  either through the patio doors or the front door.   So it makes sense to make sure Madeleine hadn't wandered out doesn't it?   Even if you know your child wouldn't have you search just in case.

No, they say they were certain she hadn't, due to that alleged open window & shutter, which Kate asserts Maddie couldn't have opened herself.

'Not possible', in her own words.

https://youtu.be/WLvnfcl-Zkg?t=1370

So, no, no it doesn't make sense for them to search around first.

What would make perfect sense would have been for them to have alerted the authorities immediately & inform them of this certainty.

That simply didn't happen.

[Angelo222]

If the police had been called straight away,   they would have been asked if they had searched the surrounding area,  to which they would have had to reply 'no'  the reply then would have been 'search around the area first'  it is what any parents would do before calling the police no matter what their feelings are to what had happened to their child.

That's an excellent point Lace and one which proves that the PJ were wrong to discount the walk and wandered theory.  If the missing child's parents thought she could have strayed to the extent they decided to look for her outside then the rest is history.  If they were convinced she couldnt have escaped on her own and had been taken they would have contacted police immediately via staff members at the tapas.

[Robittybob1]

The McCann's say they don't think Madeleine would have wandered out,  they know their child and to go out through the patio doors it is unlikely a child of that age would turn and shut the door and the gate and leave everything how it was.   However,  the police would say she could have wandered out,  either through the patio doors or the front door.   So it makes sense to make sure Madeleine hadn't wandered out doesn't it?   Even if you know your child wouldn't have you search just in case.

No one has explained to me why Madeleine hadn't left by the front door.  I agree with Kate about the patio door and gates all being closed except that had there been another person involved that other person could have made sure the gates and doors were shut.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No, any gut feelings I had/have are acted upon.  Sorry to disappoint. So the gut feeling Is the 'circumstantial' evidence then?
Good, cause that helps with Amarlas gut feeling  in so far as he has the right to act on his? yes? no?

Do you accept that sometimes gut feelings are right, and sometimes they are wrong, and that had Madeleine shown up minutes after Kate felt certain she'd been taken, we would undoubtedly be none the wiser about Kate's gut feelings at the time she discovered her child missing?

[Angelo222]

No one has explained to me why Madeleine hadn't left by the front door.  I agree with Kate about the patio door and gates all being closed except that had there been another person involved that other person could have made sure the gates and doors were shut.

She was used to going out the front door every morning so would have known how it operated and where the path outside led.

[sadie]

OK if they think it necessary to check around the outside there has to be a possibility that Madeleine woke and wandered, so I wonder why there are some who say Madeleine could not have got outside on her own?

There was a possibility that someone had taken her and abandoned her.  The outside search was necessary because of that. IMO

The parents and IIRC at least one of the Tapas group is on record as saying that they did not believe that Madeleine could have got out on her own. 

[Robittybob1]

There was a possibility that someone had taken her and abandoned her.  The outside search was necessary because of that. IMO

The parents and IIRC at least one of the Tapas group is on record as saying that they did not believe that Madeleine could have got out on her own.

It was David Payne who says that.  Why did he say that?  From what I read he went straight to the front door and found it closed.  What can you read into a door that is closed at the time of viewing it.  Can you tell if had been opened moments before?  NO you can't.

[sadie]

The McCann's say they don't think Madeleine would have wandered out,  they know their child and to go out through the patio doors it is unlikely a child of that age would turn and shut the door and the gate and leave everything how it was.   However,  the police would say she could have wandered out,  either through the patio doors or the front door.   So it makes sense to make sure Madeleine hadn't wandered out doesn't it?   Even if you know your child wouldn't have you search just in case.

Three doors/gates, actually Lace

Patio door, child safety gate and gate at the bottom of the steps into the garden.

So Madeleine had to have opened all three of those doors/gates and closed them again when according to some of you she was distressed?   

And how did she open the child safety gate in the first place?   It is put there to stop children walking out.

Was she able to open the patio door?  Kate thinks not, and I doubt it very much.  Because of her diminutive height, the force she exerted on the door was too low down and she would tend to jam it.  Anyway, where were her fingerprints?

[sadie]

That's an excellent point Lace and one which proves that the PJ were wrong to discount the walk and wandered theory.  If the missing child's parents thought she could have strayed to the extent they decided to look for her outside then the rest is history.  If they were convinced she couldnt have escaped on her own and had been taken they would have contacted police immediately via staff members at the tapas.

Please dont forget that children are sometimes taken then abandoned nearby.  They must have had this thought in their minds.

Naturally in the circumstances of extreme fear and worry, (even if when rational they wouldn't have) that Madeleine had somehow got out. 

They had to search around outside. 

All of you would have criticized them if they hadn't searched outside, wouldn't you?   
Cos what ever they did ... and whatever they do, is always wrong, isn't it ?

[sadie]

No one has explained to me why Madeleine hadn't left by the front door.  I agree with Kate about the patio door and gates all being closed except that had there been another person involved that other person could have made sure the gates and doors were shut.

1)  Like Kate, I dont believe Madeleine could physically have opened it.

2)  I think that with the light from the street lamp illuminating the patio area, a little girl would go for a lit exit (patio) to a blank exit (front door) with nothing to see outside.

3)  The front door was closed. 
A little girl would not be strong enough to close that heavy front door, with only that giant knob to pull.
FGS, The knob was set in the middle of the door making it much harder to pull and her little hands would be too small to grip the giant knob.  [edited to correct my error, my apologies]
 
If I am remembering my mechanics properly she would need twice the pull to close it, than if the knob were set at the edge of the door.  She just wouldn't be physically able to close it IMO, with the difficulty of gripping it and especially as it was about head height rather than waist height

4)  I dont believe that she would choose to exit that way either, cos most often she used the patio entrance

5)  IF, and I don't believe it could have happened, she got out, she would be surrounded by high walls relative to her size.  She would be in a very dark place, with only the sky and the whooshing trees to see.  It would have been spooky.  I think that she would have been terrified and gone straight back inside.

As a child, when on my own in the dark, I used to be frightened of trees that had whooshing branches hanging down.  This fear went on into my teens.


The front door, Rob, was too heavy and wouldn't close for her ... and then it would have been too spooky and dark.  And all that doesn't allow for the fact that her fingers might not have been strong enough to open the latch, if she knew how!


Nah, she didn't go out of the front door of her own volition


IMO

ETA:  I dont know how to alter my post where the original was quoted by others.  Again my apologies.

PS.  It is good to see that slartis ALL IMO added to the top of this post has been removed.  Thank you.

[Angelo222]

Three doors/gates, actually Lace

Patio door, child safety gate and gate at the bottom of the steps into the garden.

So Madeleine had to have opened all three of those doors/gates and closed them again when according to some of you she was distressed?   

And how did she open the child safety gate in the first place?   It is put there to stop children walking out.

Was she able to open the patio door?  Kate thinks not, and I doubt it very much.  Because of her diminutive height, the force she exerted on the door was too low down and she would tend to jam it.  Anyway, where were her fingerprints?

A child safety gate won't stop a nearly four-year-old Sadie, I'm surprised you even suggested such a preposterous notion.  They simply climb over them.  In any event it has never been proven that any of the gates were closed.