Abduction from within or Abduction from outside - which has more evidence?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Sorry, I have never heard that.  Could we have a cite for it please

Oh I think it is well documented that the PJ didn't believe the jemmied shutters story...

[sadie]

Oh I think it is well documented that the PJ didn't believe the jemmied shutters story...

Cite means show us the proof.  Please

[John]

It's not quite ... but almost saying that it is impossible, doncha agree Alice ?


-snip-  "the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically"

And that was from the final report by the PJ

I see no reason why a 4-year-old child in perfect health could leave an unlocked apartment by her own volition.  We know from other child wanderings that children much younger than this can get out into the street if determined enough and can walk considerable distances on their own.  I find it extremely sinister that any investigator could discount the possibility that Madeleine got out of the apartment on her own given the circumstances, was this simply part of the bigger plan to implicate the parents?

The unexplained movement of the doors within the apartment, the absence of any forensic evidence pertaining to an intruder and the route taken by two tracker dogs tasked with following Madeleine McCann's scent shortly after the disappearance all point the same way.

[sadie]

None!

I have voiced my concern about the time line and the  descriptive of 'checking'

There was never any physical checking- just listening at the door. there was no planned schedule either- however, as luck would have it  Kate and Gerry, thanks to a moving door angle and their sharp eyes  claimed they checked that very same  night.  coincidence?

MBM was last seen by an independent witness at      ?   and was found to be missing at ?

Couple of hours there to play with I would suspect.

It is these wee things that cause the niggle.

1)  I cant remember seeing anything that confirms that there was no physical checking, just listening at the door
2)  Nor can I remember that there was no planned schedule.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to show where you got this from.


With my own son, i never physically checked tho, cos the minute the bedroom door moved an inch, he was wide awake.  It was almost like he was lieing there watching it.

Also, processing any noises.  TV off, we crept up to bed, used the loo, but didn't flush it and silently went to bed.  The minute that we were dropping off to sleep, he would yell.  Every night for years!   

Oh, my it was ever lucky that I was patient, cos hubby wasn't.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I see no reason why a 4-year-old child in perfect health could leave an unlocked apartment by her own volition.  We know from other child wanderings that children much younger than this can get out into the street if determined enough and can walk considerable distances on their own.  I find it extremely sinister that any investigator could discount the possibility that Madeleine got out of the apartment on her own given the circumstances, was this simply part of the bigger plan to implicate the parents?

The unexplained movement of the doors within the apartment, the absence of any forensic evidence pertaining to an intruder and the route taken by two tracker dogs tasked with following Madeleine McCann's scent shortly after the disappearance all point the same way.

Was it not the parents  who were telling this to the MSM and anyone else who would listen? She couldn't have got out of the apartment Kate said, because Kate said she knew what happened she was there.?

I believe this is part of the PR to dismiss this, in the beginning people believed in an abductor so sent money to help the family- who rightly /wrongly exploited this by seeking more money. No one was aware that MBM challenged her parents re leaving them alone and sean crying, no one was aware that Kate left a door unlocked. If the woke and wandered information got out in the first few hours ,like the 'abductor jemmied shutters story, I believe we would be looking at a very different public opinion and the PJ would have had a better understanding of what happened.  Just my opinion.

[sadie]

Was it not the parents  who were telling this to the MSM and anyone else who would listen? She couldn't have got out of the apartment Kate said, because Kate said she knew what happened she was there.?

I believe this is part of the PR to dismiss this, in the beginning people believed in an abductor so sent money to help the family- who rightly /wrongly exploited this by seeking more money. No one was aware that MBM challenged her parents re leaving them alone and sean crying, no one was aware that Kate left a door unlocked. If the woke and wandered information got out in the first few hours ,like the 'abductor jemmied shutters story, I believe we would be looking at a very different public opinion and the PJ would have had a better understanding of what happened.  Just my opinion.

Citation please for "She couldn't have got out of the apartment Kate said, because Kate said she knew what happened"

When and where did Kate say that pls?

This is the third cite that I have had to ask you for tonight, but as yet no sensible response.

If you dont know it, then at least have the decency to not express it ... or at least to reword it into a more acceptable form.  Thank you

[Mr Gray]

Two factors... Was the front door locked with a key..... And therefore could not be opened..
How stiff was the patio door... Could maddie open it herself..

These, are two questions  no one has, the, answer to here but could explain why the final report reached the conclusion  it did

[Angelo222]

Two factors... Was the front door locked with a key..... And therefore could not be opened..
How stiff was the patio door... Could maddie open it herself..

These, are two questions  no one has, the, answer to here but could explain why the final report reached the conclusion  it did

It was established that the frontdoor key was left on the kitchen worktop while the parents dined at the tapas restaurant which contradicted Gerry McCann's initial claim that he entered the apartment using the front door.  Did either parent ever claim to have security locked the front door using the key or was it left so that it could still be opened from the inside without the key?

As for the patio door, there are no reports on record stating that it was stiff or hard to open.

[Mr Gray]

It was established that the frontdoor key had been left on the kitchen worktop which proved Gerry McCann's initial claim that he entered the apartment using the front door to be false.  Was the front door double locked using the key or could it have been opened from the inside.

As for the patio door, there are no reports on record stating that it was stiff or hard to open.

you havent answerred either point...could you tell me with a cite if the front door was locked with a key or not..

could you tell me if Maddie was physically able to open the patio door...with a cite...

the final PJ report said it was highly unlikely that physically maddie could have left the apartment herself...which suggests to me she could not open the doors

[Angelo222]

you havent answerred either point...could you tell me with a cite if the front door was locked with a key or not..

could you tell me if Maddie was physically able to open the patio door...with a cite...

the final PJ report said it was highly unlikely that physically maddie could have left the apartment herself...which suggests to me she could not open the doors

There is no evidence to suggest a four-year-old couldn't open the patio door.  Had the door been hard to open we would have heard about it as a matter of course.  Same with the front door, neither parent has ever claimed to have locked it with the key as far as I recall.  So that leaves a patio door easily slid open and a front door which also may have been just as easily opened.  Hardly what one would call a secure environment for three toddlers.

[Mr Gray]

There is no evidence to suggest a four-year-old couldn't open the patio door.  Had the door been hard to open we would have heard about it as a matter of course.

You are making an assumption... You don't know if the door was difficult to open... Or how difficult it was to open
The PJ must have had, a, reason to say what they did... They obviously  we're not convinced by the sniffer dogs

[Angelo222]

You are making an assumption... You don't know if the door was difficult to open... Or how difficult it was to open
The PJ must have had, a, reason to say what they did... They obviously  we're not convinced by the sniffer dogs

I think the PJ were given a bum steer by Tanner.  At least Redwood implied as much.

[Mr Gray]

I think the PJ were given a bum steer by Tanner.  At least Redwood implied as much.

Tanner told what she saw and it seems she was correct

[Angelo222]

Tanner told what she saw and it seems she was correct

Seems she saw a tourist carrying his daughter...shock horror!!   😱

[Vertigo Swirl]

Seems she saw a tourist carrying his daughter...shock horror!!   😱

Was she to know that at the time?