Memory and stress

[Luz]

Not wishing to disrupt the discussion that's ongoing in this thread, I think that what the OP meant was that sometimes "traumatic events" may cause you to completely forget - they may be so painful that as a defense mechanism your mind blocks any recall (the freudian repression) and they can only be recovered through theraphy or some drug like scopolamine or sodium penthatol. But other events may be so deeply ingrained in your mind that you keep recalling them vividly.
When we speak about stress we usually refer to a continuous situation that affects your emotional and or rational system. If light and if you have the resources to deal with it, it may highly positive, if it is felt as too overbearing and if you are in a fragile situation it may lead to a very disfunctional situation - for instance the expression burnout is applied to this situations - people loose their ability to control their emotions and become incapable of facing their day-to-day life.

Whatever happened with Mr and Mrs McCann and their friends, we don't know.
That's why I expected to see in Court some qualified expert giving testimony about the difficulties that the plaintiffs suffered.

[Mr Gray]

Not wishing to disrupt the discussion that's ongoing in this thread, I think that what the OP meant was that sometimes "traumatic events" may cause you to completely forget - they may be so painful that as a defense mechanism your mind blocks any recall (the freudian repression) and they can only be recovered through theraphy or some drug like scopolamine or sodium penthatol. But other events may be so deeply ingrained in your mind that you keep recalling them vividly.
When we speak about stress we usually refer to a continuous situation that affects your emotional and or rational system. If light and if you have the resources to deal with it, it may highly positive, if it is felt as too overbearing and if you are in a fragile situation it may lead to a very disfunctional situation - for instance the expression burnout is applied to this situations - people loose their ability to control their emotions and become incapable of facing their day-to-day life.

Whatever happened with Mr and Mrs McCann and their friends, we don't know.
That's why I expected to see in Court some qualified expert giving testimony about the difficulties that the plaintiffs suffered.

No ...what the thread relates to is the relatioinship between impaired memory and stress

You only have to google stress and memory to find literally thousands of articles confirming the link.Those that doubt the McCanns cannot accept incontrovertible evidence that this is the case.

[AnneGuedes]

Fascinating, Benice. The Yard is working with such sophistication. I did not know this software existed.

I do really wonder how HOLMES can appreciate and process the feelings (scent, breathing, sweat of the hidden one) of two people on each side of a door, one being pressed against the wall and the other ignoring the presence of the first.

[AnneGuedes]

I cant see how you as a little girl suffered from stress when you heard about JFK...have another think..perhaps it has affected your memory

Did I speak of stress ? I discovered that the most powerful man on the planet could leave for good in a nutshell.

[Carana]

In case anyone is interested "Misidentification: can you identify the criminal?":

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind/psychology/misidentification-can-you-identify-the-criminal

[icabodcrane]

In case anyone is interested "Misidentification: can you identify the criminal?":

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind/psychology/misidentification-can-you-identify-the-criminal

Thanks for that link Carana ...  very interesting

(  I'll be playing with that photofit thing all night now though  !  )

[Benice]

In case anyone is interested "Misidentification: can you identify the criminal?":

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind/psychology/misidentification-can-you-identify-the-criminal

Thanks for that Carana - very informative indeed.

Many years ago I watched a TV prog where volunteers were requested to take part in a study.  The chosen ones were asked to meet in a pub to be introduced to one another and to be told about the study.   Whilst they were assembled around a table, a fracas broke out at the bar - and a bit of punch-up ensued.      Unbeknown to the volunteers  - they were actors.      The volunteers were then asked to describe what they had witnessed.  To say their  accounts differed wildly is an understatement - with one person even thinking a weapon had been produced!    The study concluded that discrepancies  in witness statements - even major ones  - was normal.

Anyone who thinks the discrepancies in witness statements in the McCann case are proof of people 'lying' - are definitely barking up the wrong tree. imo.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Here is a commercial option used by at least one UK force.

http://www.crime-scene-vr.com/

This article provides a basic view of the possibilities of Crime Scene Reconstruction using Real-Time Interactive 3D Technology

http://www.pmsmicro.com/forensicscienceschapter_4d.pdf

And here is an article from Jornal de Noticias, outlining the SY use of software and bemoaning the PJ's mor "handmade" approach.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/virtual-reconstitution-tests-witnesses.html

Thanks, gilet - interesting stuff.

I will have a proper look at it when I get the chance

I also appreciate your insights and info on forensic linguistics and will a be a look at this too

[icabodcrane]

Thanks for that Carana - very informative indeed.

Many years ago I watched a TV prog where volunteers were requested to take part in a study.  The chosen ones were asked to meet in a pub to be introduced to one another and to be told about the study.   Whilst they were assembled around a table, a fracas broke out at the bar - and a bit of punch-up ensued.      Unbeknown to the volunteers  - they were actors.      The volunteers were then asked to describe what they had witnessed.  To say their  accounts differed wildly is an understatement - with one person even thinking a weapon had been produced!    The study concluded that discrepancies  in witness statements - even major ones  - was normal.

Anyone who thinks the discrepancies in witness statements in the McCann case are proof of people 'lying' - are definitely barking up the wrong tree. imo.

Does the misidenification study impact on Jane Tanner's  witness statement,  do you think  ? 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Does the misidenification study impact on Jane Tanner's  witness statement,  do you think  ?

There is a kind of 'control' on this one by way of the Smith's descriptions of bundleman (if you accept he was the same person) which were by and large the same but with a few differences - as would be expected.

[icabodcrane]

There is a kind of 'control' on this one by way of the Smith's descriptions of bundleman (if you accept he was the same person) which were by and large the same but with a few differences - as would be expected.

I don't accept the Man Tanner saw and the man the Smiths saw was  'the same man'   ...  there is no logical reason to do so

I was wondering about the misidentification presentation by Alan Pike,  and wondering what might have been the case if Jane Tanner had been accompanied by six other people when she walked up the street that night,  and  'saw'  Madeleine being abducted 

What might the others have seen I wonder  ....  according to Pike they would almost certainly have seen something different 

Does  Pike's  study  imply that Tanner's statement might be less than reliable  ?   

[Cariad]

I don't accept the Man Tanner saw and the man the Smiths saw was  'the same man'   ...  there is no logical reason to do so

I was wondering about the misidentification presentation by Alan Pike,  and wondering what might have been the case if Jane Tanner had been accompanied by six other people when she walked up the street that night,  and  'saw'  Madeleine being abducted 

What might the others have seen I wonder  ....  according to Pike they would almost certainly have seen something different 

Does  Pike's  study  imply that Tanner's statement might be less than reliable  ?

Re the tanner sighting and the Smith sighting. My biggest problem is that there were 45 minutes between the two and according to Pat Brown* it can be walked in 5 or 6 minutes.

I can't understand why someone would wander around with an abducted child for an unnecessary half an hour, or how a child could sleep through all that disruption either for that case. Surly ether the timing is off or one or the other sighting is a deferent person?

*Link to the article with the 5 minute walk claim  http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-smith.html

[Montclair]

Re the tanner sighting and the Smith sighting. My biggest problem is that there were 45 minutes between the two and according to Pat Brown* it can be walked in 5 or 6 minutes.

I can't understand why someone would wander around with an abducted child for an unnecessary half an hour, or how a child could sleep through all that disruption either for that case. Surly ether the timing is off or one or the other sighting is a deferent person?

*Link to the article with the 5 minute walk claim  http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-smith.html

Or one of the sightings never existed....

[sadie]

Re the tanner sighting and the Smith sighting. My biggest problem is that there were 45 minutes between the two and according to Pat Brown* it can be walked in 5 or 6 minutes.

I can't understand why someone would wander around with an abducted child for an unnecessary half an hour, or how a child could sleep through all that disruption either for that case. Surly ether the timing is off or one or the other sighting is a deferent person?

*Link to the article with the 5 minute walk claim  http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-smith.html

On this occasion Pat Brown is right; there is only about 5 minutes walk between OC and the Smith sightings, but several suggestions have been made earlier on this forum as to where bundleman might have gone in the meantime.   Including, IMO, THe Staff Quarters which are only just up the road, by about 40 - 50 metres from the most northerly of the Smiths sightings


Awful, but according to someone on The 3 A's, a scream was heard coming from the Staff Quarters, at a pertinent time.

[Cariad]

On this occasion Pat Brown is right; there is only about 5 minutes walk between OC and the Smith sightings, but several suggestions have been made earlier on this forum as to where bundleman might have gone in the meantime.   Including, IMO, THe Staff Quarters which are only just up the road, by about 40 - 50 metres from the most northerly of the Smiths sightings


Awful, but according to someone on The 3 A's, a scream was heard coming from the Staff Quarters, at a pertinent time.

Thank you for that. One of the problems with being a newbie is dragging up old ground that everyone else has covered. I did the same thing yesterday too! I do apologise, however, I'm almost certain to do it again at some point 

My first thought reading about the child's scream was "so how long would a predator want with a child?"

My second thought was "you seriously need to stop thinking about this case if you're going to calmly pose questions like that to yourself".

On that note, I'm going to step away from the internet and think about kittens or something before I'm actually certifiable.