Author Topic: Did dissociative amnesia play a part in the chaos the night Maddie disappeared?  (Read 8875 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Gray

Regardless of whether the check dog followed the scent of the first dog or not, it is standard procedure to deploy the best dog first and follow it up with a check.  There is no doubt in my mind that the first dog followed the scent of the article associated with Madeleine which was given to him which as we all know mysteriously dissipated at the car park opposite mini reception. There is only one reason that that could occur IMO.
I've tried to find d the pj report on this... Perhaps someone could help... I don't think the dog handler was, as convinced as you are.. What date was this, search carried out... It could well be a trail laid, down on a previous day
The, fact is the phone final report  says, woke, and wandered was highly unlikely  and they have more information  than we, do

Offline Mr Gray

And of course those memories which have been suppressed are no longer remembered anyway.

But thus is not hidden... Kate clearly remembers the window being ipenpp

Offline John

A reminder of the opening post.


Did dissociative amnesia play a part in the chaos the night Maddie disappeared?

Some of the reported events which occurred the night Madeleine disappeared are open to interpretation once the actual evidence is examined.  The Portuguese police officers who first attended the Ocean Club that night called in the Policia Judiciaria (detectives) because they felt something just wasn't right. According to these GNR officers, the tapas group were scared, jumpy and nervous. The parents were exibiting signs of extreme stress which manifested itself in them wailing on the bed and the floor.  They'd all been drinking, they weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. It was hard to get any sense out of them about a possible abduction.

Given that background, it is not surprising therefore that people become confused and disorientated. Witnesses recall events differently at the best of times but in the midst of a possible child abduction scenario, panick and fear take over, logic sails merrily out the window, memories become tainted.  Once the dust had settled and witness statements had been taken, it became clear that there were many discrepancies between witnesses.

Three events in particular involving Madeleine's parents were to become of particular interest to investigators. The route taken by Gerry McCann between the tapas restaurant and his apartment at around 9pm. The encounter he had with Jeremy Wilkins outside the apartment at about 9.15pm and the report by Kate McCann that when she checked the apartment  just after 10pm that she found the children's bedroom window fully open and the outside shutter raised.

GM in his first statement claimed that he had gained entry to his apartment via the front door which required a key to gain entry. His second statement made reference to this event but this time he agreed that entry had been made from the rear of the apartment via an unlocked patio door. Clearly this was an example of memory lapse.

The second event occurred some 15 minutes later after Gerry McCann left the apartment.  According to GM, he saw an holidaymaker approaching and crossed the road to chat to him for a few minutes. According to this holidaymaker, identified as Jeremy Wilkins, it was he who crossed the road to speak to GM who remained on the pavement.  Another witness and a member of the tapas group, identified as Jane Tanner, corroborated JW's version of the event and claimed that she slipped past both men as they chatted. Clearly, at least one of the three had suffered a memory malfunction.

The final event is the most interesting. The missing child's mother, Kate McCann, has always insisted that when she went to check on the children in the apartment at around 10pm, that she found the curtains billowing in the wind, the bedroom window fully slid across and the window shutter fully raised. Forensic examination of the window and its surrounds however found only Kate McCann's fingerprints on the window and in such a position which suggested that it was she who had opened it.  There were no signs that the shutter or window had been tampered with and no evidence whatsoever that any intruder had gained entry to the apartment. Was this yet another example of a memory loss brought about by severe trauma?

Were these events actually examples of a phenomenon called 'dissociative amnesia' or 'memory loss'. Dissociation is a natural response to a trauma over which an individual has no control, it is known that the condition is aggravated by the consumption of alcohol.

Could it be that the trauma suffered by Madeleine's parents on the night she disappeared was sufficient to trigger this condition resulting in loss of some memory of events while others remain confused.  In clinical terms, retrograde amnesia sufferers may partially regain memory later, but memories are never regained with anterograde amnesia because they were not encoded properly. Memories from just before the trauma are often completely lost, partly due to the psychological repression of unpleasant memories (psychogenic amnesia), and partly because memories may be incompletely encoded if the event interrupts the normal process of transfer from short-term to long-term memory.

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

I've tried to find d the pj report on this... Perhaps someone could help... I don't think the dog handler was, as convinced as you are.. What date was this, search carried out... It could well be a trail laid, down on a previous day
The, fact is the phone final report  says, woke, and wandered was highly unlikely  and they have more information  than we, do

The PJ final report is flawed in many ways IMO.  The woke and wandered and met with an accident theory is the only one which has evidence to support it.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

A reminder of the opening post.


Did dissociative amnesia play a part in the chaos the night Maddie disappeared?

Some of the reported events which occurred the night Madeleine disappeared are open to interpretation once the actual evidence is examined.  The Portuguese police officers who first attended the Ocean Club that night called in the Policia Judiciaria (detectives) because they felt something just wasn't right. According to these GNR officers, the tapas group were scared, jumpy and nervous. The parents were exibiting signs of extreme stress which manifested itself in them wailing on the bed and the floor.  They'd all been drinking, they weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. It was hard to get any sense out of them about a possible abduction.

Given that background, it is not surprising therefore that people become confused and disorientated. Witnesses recall events differently at the best of times but in the midst of a possible child abduction scenario, panick and fear take over, logic sails merrily out the window, memories become tainted.  Once the dust had settled and witness statements had been taken, it became clear that there were many discrepancies between witnesses.

Three events in particular involving Madeleine's parents were to become of particular interest to investigators. The route taken by Gerry McCann between the tapas restaurant and his apartment at around 9pm. The encounter he had with Jeremy Wilkins outside the apartment at about 9.15pm and the report by Kate McCann that when she checked the apartment  just after 10pm that she found the children's bedroom window fully open and the outside shutter raised.

GM in his first statement claimed that he had gained entry to his apartment via the front door which required a key to gain entry. His second statement made reference to this event but this time he agreed that entry had been made from the rear of the apartment via an unlocked patio door. Clearly this was an example of memory lapse.

The second event occurred some 15 minutes later after Gerry McCann left the apartment.  According to GM, he saw an holidaymaker approaching and crossed the road to chat to him for a few minutes. According to this holidaymaker, identified as Jeremy Wilkins, it was he who crossed the road to speak to GM who remained on the pavement.  Another witness and a member of the tapas group, identified as Jane Tanner, corroborated JW's version of the event and claimed that she slipped past both men as they chatted. Clearly, at least one of the three had suffered a memory malfunction.

The final event is the most interesting. The missing child's mother, Kate McCann, has always insisted that when she went to check on the children in the apartment at around 10pm, that she found the curtains billowing in the wind, the bedroom window fully slid across and the window shutter fully raised. Forensic examination of the window and its surrounds however found only Kate McCann's fingerprints on the window and in such a position which suggested that it was she who had opened it.  There were no signs that the shutter or window had been tampered with and no evidence whatsoever that any intruder had gained entry to the apartment. Was this yet another example of a memory loss brought about by severe trauma?

Were these events actually examples of a phenomenon called 'dissociative amnesia' or 'memory loss'. Dissociation is a natural response to a trauma over which an individual has no control, it is known that the condition is aggravated by the consumption of alcohol.

Could it be that the trauma suffered by Madeleine's parents on the night she disappeared was sufficient to trigger this condition resulting in loss of some memory of events while others remain confused.  In clinical terms, retrograde amnesia sufferers may partially regain memory later, but memories are never regained with anterograde amnesia because they were not encoded properly. Memories from just before the trauma are often completely lost, partly due to the psychological repression of unpleasant memories (psychogenic amnesia), and partly because memories may be incompletely encoded if the event interrupts the normal process of transfer from short-term to long-term memory.

The PJ we're, called because it became clear their may have been a, serious crime... Imo
Kate, says, she, saw, the, windows, and shutters open.... So no amnesia....
It's, a big supposition to suggest she imagined it

Offline Mr Gray

The PJ final report is flawed in many ways IMO.  The woke and wandered and met with an accident theory is the only one which has evidence to support it.
SY do not, agree, with you  and, again they have, all the evidence

Offline John

But thus is not hidden... Kate clearly remembers the window being ipenpp

There is a very good reason for that and the later claim by family that the shutter and window had been forced which as we all now know was false.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

There is a very good reason for that and the later claim by family that the shutter and window had been forced which as we all now know was false.

The windiw being forced is quite a reasonable  description
...since kate thought it had been opened from the outside

Offline Angelo222

The windiw being forced is quite a reasonable  description
...since kate thought it had been opened from the outside

In my opinion it was all part of the abducted narrative.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Miss Taken Identity

In my opinion it was all part of the abducted narrative.

Yeah red herring... dramatic affect!  imo
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Robittybob1

Yeah red herring... dramatic affect!  imo
What was a red herring?  What was done for dramatic effect? 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:13:14 AM by John »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

What was a red herring?  What was done for dramatic effect? 

There is nothing wrong in challenging a persons story. And as there are no independent witnesses, this is a story and it comes across as a made up one, big scene -big drama about someone breaking in through a window (knowing she left a door unlocked ) and stealing her daughter... knowing her daugher woke up during the night on a few occasions and could have wandered off...

this was IMO pure PR -  because how would it look on the news that a child was left alone and wandered off by herself during the night and disappeared... parents were out wining and dining as they did every night- even though the child complained to them about it.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:14:21 AM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Vertigo Swirl

There is nothing wrong in challenging a persons story. And as there are no independent witnesses, this is a story and it comes across as a made up one, big scene -big drama about someone breaking in through a window (knowing she left a door unlocked ) and stealing her daughter... knowing her daugher woke up during the night on a few occasions and could have wandered off...

this was IMO pure PR -  because how would it look on the news that a child was left alone and wandered off by herself during the night and disappeared... parents were out wining and dining as they did every night- even though the child complained to them about it.
Are you of the opinion that Madeleine woke and wandered but that her parents only pretended to be distressed by this turn of events?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:15:01 AM by John »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Are you of the opinion that Madeleine woke and wandered but that her parents only pretended to be distressed by this turn of events?
Yes what is your view?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Yes what is your view?
My question was addressed to Miss Taken but thanks for your reply.  Can I ask why you think the McCanns could only pretend to be distressed when they found Madeleine missing rather than actually be hugely distressed, as most parents would?  I think she was taken btw.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".