Crecheman's identity finally revealed

[Heriberto Janosch]

Neither man saw her pass by.  She said she thought they must see her because they were so close; she would have acknowledged them but Gerry had his back to her ... (she and Jes didn't know each other anyway) ... and that the men were deep in conversation.

Yes, but you have to be some night there. It is really hard to believe Gerry and Jez did not see her. And she said Gerry and Jez were in her path, while they said they were in the other side of the street.

[G-Unit]

Yes, but you have to be some night there. It is really hard to believe Gerry and Jez did not see her. And she said Gerry and Jez were in her path, while they said they were in the other side of the street.

The problem is that Gerry seems to have accepted the group timeline which was handed to the PJ on 10th May, but disagreed with what is said when he gave his statement.

Sequence of Events: Thursday 3rd May 2007 - 2030 to 2200
As recalled by:

Gerry McCann - 5A
Kate McCann - 5A
David Payne - 5H (First floor)
Fiona Payne - 5H (First floor)
Dianne Webster - 5H (First floor)
Jane Tanner - 5D
Russell O'Brien - 5D
Matthew Oldfield - 5B
Rachael Oldfield - 5B

2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

He crossed the road in JEZ's direction
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

[Innominate]

Yes, but you have to be some night there. It is really hard to believe Gerry and Jez did not see her. And she said Gerry and Jez were in her path, while they said they were in the other side of the street.

1578 'Yes'.
Reply 'Erm so Gerry went off erm came back a couple of minutes later, erm and then Jane went off at about ten past nine to check on Ella and Evie, erm and you know, and then you know yes she came back and everything was quiet there as well, and I think by, when Jane came back, we were all sitting down, we had our starters and ate that'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Unless I'm misreading it - Rachael Oldfield states JT left after GMcC returned.

[jassi]

1578 'Yes'.
Reply 'Erm so Gerry went off erm came back a couple of minutes later, erm and then Jane went off at about ten past nine to check on Ella and Evie, erm and you know, and then you know yes she came back and everything was quiet there as well, and I think by, when Jane came back, we were all sitting down, we had our starters and ate that'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Unless I'm misreading it - Rachael Oldfield states JT left after GMcC returned.

Which is what the first draft timeline also says.

[Brietta]

Yes, but you have to be some night there. It is really hard to believe Gerry and Jez did not see her. And she said Gerry and Jez were in her path, while they said they were in the other side of the street.

There is total disagreement among the three about who was standing where.
The only agreement is that Gerry and Jes failed to see Jane and they failed to see the man Jane saw whether or not he was Dr Totman.

From memory, Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Jane Tanner (there may be others?) are in agreement that Gerry left the table after nine shortly followed by Jane and Gerry returned followed by Jane some time later.  No-one is certain of exact times.

[Brietta]

1578 'Yes'.
Reply 'Erm so Gerry went off erm came back a couple of minutes later, erm and then Jane went off at about ten past nine to check on Ella and Evie, erm and you know, and then you know yes she came back and everything was quiet there as well, and I think by, when Jane came back, we were all sitting down, we had our starters and ate that'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Unless I'm misreading it - Rachael Oldfield states JT left after GMcC returned.

01.10.08 1578 'What about Gerry returning''
 Reply 'Yeah Gerry had come back sort of, erm well you know before Jane had, you know he'd only been gone a few minutes I think, not very long, erm he said he'd seen, to met J, he'd met Jez on the way back, who was one of the dads and he'd been playing tennis and there was supposed to be a tennis tournament on the Friday and I think they were, they were trying to get teams together and he'd been talking to Jez about the tennis tournament, erm so he'd, yeah stopped and chatted to him on the road and he mentioned that when he got back to the table, erm and then shortly after he got back, Jane got back, erm we had our starters and, and then about twenty five past nine, or half past nine, ... ....
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Or maybe you didn't continue reading on far enough?

[jassi]

Rachael says different. See post 302

[Innominate]

01.10.08 1578 'What about Gerry returning''
 Reply 'Yeah Gerry had come back sort of, erm well you know before Jane had, you know he'd only been gone a few minutes I think, not very long, erm he said he'd seen, to met J, he'd met Jez on the way back, who was one of the dads and he'd been playing tennis and there was supposed to be a tennis tournament on the Friday and I think they were, they were trying to get teams together and he'd been talking to Jez about the tennis tournament, erm so he'd, yeah stopped and chatted to him on the road and he mentioned that when he got back to the table, erm and then shortly after he got back, Jane got back, erm we had our starters and, and then about twenty five past nine, or half past nine, ... ....
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Or maybe you didn't continue reading on far enough?

I did, and it is clear to me - RO states JT left after GMcC. An ambiguous later paragraph does not alter that IMO.

[Brietta]

I did, and it is clear to me - RO states JT left after GMcC. An ambiguous later paragraph does not alter that IMO.

Ambiguous?  OK ... but it is worth bearing in mind the ambiguity of it all from initial non-verbatim translated statements to those recorded after the passage of many months.
It is probably why so many "in my opinion" applies to so much which is posted ... or in my opinion really should be although also much neglected in practice.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No need. It’s just common sense really.

Who’d have thought that all that insisting that he was on the other side of the road would work against Gerry in the long run.

Has does that make any difference to anything?

[Miss Taken Identity]

01.10.08 1578 'What about Gerry returning''
 Reply 'Yeah Gerry had come back sort of, erm well you know before Jane had, you know he'd only been gone a few minutes I think, not very long, erm he said he'd seen, to met J, he'd met Jez on the way back, who was one of the dads and he'd been playing tennis and there was supposed to be a tennis tournament on the Friday and I think they were, they were trying to get teams together and he'd been talking to Jez about the tennis tournament, erm so he'd, yeah stopped and chatted to him on the road and he mentioned that when he got back to the table, erm and then shortly after he got back, Jane got back, erm we had our starters and, and then about twenty five past nine, or half past nine, ... ....
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Or maybe you didn't continue reading on far enough?

"you know he'd only been gone a few minutes "

I thought it was mentioned Gerry was away for a  lot longer than a few minutes? Didn't someone think he was watching the football? then chatted with Jez?... more than a few minutes I would suggest.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Yes, but you have to be some night there. It is really hard to believe Gerry and Jez did not see her. And she said Gerry and Jez were in her path, while they said they were in the other side of the street.

Do you really think it’s impossible for two people in conversation with each other to be in close proximity to a passer-by without really registering them or who it is, or even remembering the minor incident later?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Do you really think it’s impossible for two people in conversation with each other to be in close proximity to a passer-by without really registering them or who it is, or even remembering the minor incident later?

Hmmm yeah. bit of a strange one. different story surrounds this particular 'event'

The very idea that a'abductor' jimmied shutters, jumped in ,grabbed .MBM and walked off while her father was just outseide and hear nothing is fantasy .
Then we have Gerry saying he thinks this 'abductor' was in the apartment at the same time as him- well didn't Gerry notice the draft from the jimmied shutters-open window when he had his adroring daughter moment?

all made up as they went along to try and cover the cracks in their stories. IMO.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Hmmm yeah. bit of a strange one. different story surrounds this particular 'event'

The very idea that a'abductor' jimmied shutters, jumped in ,grabbed .MBM and walked off while her father was just outseide and hear nothing is fantasy .
Then we have Gerry saying he thinks this 'abductor' was in the apartment at the same time as him- well didn't Gerry notice the draft from the jimmied shutters-open window when he had his adroring daughter moment?

all made up as they went along to try and cover the cracks in their stories. IMO.

And yet we know that it's eminently possible for a man to enter a house, grab a child from her bath and make off with her while her own mother was also in the house at the same time - or was that pure fantasy too, in your opinion?

[Miss Taken Identity]

And yet we know that it's eminently possible for a man to enter a house, grab a child from her bath and make off with her while her own mother was also in the house at the same time - or was that pure fantasy too, in your opinion?

Oh well tell me more. This was a planned snatch right?  How long did it take to jemmy the shutters and open a window grab a child - clean all the DNA and Not leave any marks on the nice white walls...  I recon quite a while but then I am not as much an expert in abduction as you seem to be.


I am assuming you are comparing like for like?