What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom

[Brietta]

I can't agree   with what you mention about  the door not being in a position she liked. Imo  she mentioned it to 
emphasise  her  insistence that Madeleine had been taken.
Why didn't she consider  Gerry had  forgotten how she liked the door  position ?     

When Kate initially noticed the position of the door, she had absolutely no idea that Madeleine was missing. 

Only when she saw that Madeleine was not in her bed or anywhere in the apartment and the window was open and the shutter raised did she comprehend the absolute horror of the situation.

[Brietta]

Gerry's statement 4th May 2007.

 The witness and his wife, between this time and 20.30 stayed in the apartment relaxing and drinking a glass of wine. After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner.

Gerry's statement 10th May 2007.

 At 19H30, the twins were already in their respective cots and MADELEINE in the bed next to the bedroom door. He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were. As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.

----- At 20H35, they left the apartment in the direction of the TAPAS. Before they left and because the children's bedroom door was ajar as always, he opened it a little more, listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence he did not enter, returning the door to its previous position, with a space of about 10cm.

----- He is certain that, before leaving home the children's bedroom was totally dark, with the window closed, but he does not know it was locked, the external blinds closed but with some slats open, and the curtains also drawn closed. Asked, he relates that during the night the artificial light coming in from the outside is very weak, because, without a light being on in the lounge or the kitchen, the visibility inside the bedroom is much reduced.

So on the 4th May they looked in the Children's bedroom before leaving for the Tapas bar,  in the statement of the 10th of May they leave for the Tapas bar without looking into the Children's bedroom.  He is certain that, before leaving home the children's bedroom was totally dark.  He also states there was no light on in the lounge or kitchen which is believable as it would still be light outside.

So we have two respectable parents who didn't check to see if the Children were asleep before they left for the Tapas bar.   

 Gerry's statement 4th May 2007.

 As usual, every half hour and as the restaurant was near, the witness or his wife, would check whether the children were all right. In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant.

In this statement Gerry uses his respected key as the door was locked, but fails to mention seeing the Children and fails to mention the door.

Gerry's statement 10th May 2007.

----- He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings. In this way he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and is certain of this, that the three were sleeping deeply. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, [then] going to the bathroom.

In this statement there is No mention of a key and the door being locked, he also states that he had visual contact with the three Children and lots to say about the Children's bedroom door.

How these two statements conflict with each other is unbelievable.

 

Hardly surprising.

None of the statements were recorded using modern technology.
The statements were not recorded verbatim,
We don't even know what if any questions were asked.

An added difficulty was the language barrier necessitating the use of interpreters.

If statements recorded under such circumstances had matched up perfectly ... that in my opinion could have been considerd unbelievable.

[Alice Purjorick]

Hardly surprising.

None of the statements were recorded using modern technology.
The statements were not recorded verbatim,
We don't even know what if any questions were asked.

An added difficulty was the language barrier necessitating the use of interpreters.

If statements recorded under such circumstances had matched up perfectly ... that in my opinion could have been considerd unbelievable.

This is only of relevance if the procedure was not in accordance with that laid down in the "Code of Practice".
Do you have any evidence whatever that the correct Portuguese protocols were not followed? If not game over.
Even in UK not all witness statements are recorded or videoed. Only the ones  likely to be used in a prosecution case. But then metaphorically speaking I have "papered the walls" of this forum with the CPS procedure for such so I doubt anyone will pay any heed now either.

[Snowgirl]

When Kate initially noticed the position of the door, she had absolutely no idea that Madeleine was missing. 

Only when she saw that Madeleine was not in her bed or anywhere in the apartment and the window was open and the shutter raised did she comprehend the absolute horror of the situation.

That would appear to be her story ?I don't have to believe it tho?

[Robittybob1]

That would appear to be her story ?I don't have to believe it tho?

Why would you not believe it?

[Brietta]

This is only of relevance if the procedure was not in accordance with that laid down in the "Code of Practice".
Do you have any evidence whatever that the correct Portuguese protocols were not followed? If not game over.
Even in UK not all witness statements are recorded or videoed. Only the ones  likely to be used in a prosecution case. But then metaphorically speaking I have "papered the walls" of this forum with the CPS procedure for such so I doubt anyone will pay any heed now either.

You mean video recordings ... or even audio recordings were unheard of as far as the recording of witness statements was concerned as far as Portuguese law enforcement was concerned?

Where does this protocol fit with the visit of the dogs to Luz which featured so prominently in the videos stamped with Levy's copyright and indicate a place for them in the Portuguese process or even lack of, which you outline.

[Brietta]

That would appear to be her story ?I don't have to believe it tho?

Therein lies the problem outlined by Jose Manuel Oliveira's "Headline: a badly told story." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm which indicates the level of unprofessional disbelief in circulation within hours of Madeleine's disappearance.

In my opinion there had been no opportunity to study the evidence to allow a meaningful analysis of it to shape the path of the investigation.  A knee jerk reaction which could only have been ill informed given the time scale in which it appeared in print in my opinion shaped the investigation and shaped sceptic internet opinion to this day.

In my opinion it ranks as one of the greatest disservices ever in the case of any missing child with which I am familiar and based on what?  certainly not the available evidence given the speed of its delivery to the public domain.

[Alice Purjorick]

You mean video recordings ... or even audio recordings were unheard of as far as the recording of witness statements was concerned as far as Portuguese law enforcement was concerned?

Where does this protocol fit with the visit of the dogs to Luz which featured so prominently in the videos stamped with Levy's copyright and indicate a place for them in the Portuguese process or even lack of, which you outline.

Q:Did I say that?
A: No

Q to you: In that case why are you suggesting I said it or implied it.

While trawling about I found this apposite exchange between two posters named Icabodcrane & Gilet:

"You are funny gilet
You put such effort into presenting your posts in a suitably  serious  way  ...  when what you are actually  saying  is a load of old [ censored word ] nonsense"

[faithlilly]

Q:Did I say that?
A: No

Q to you: In that case why are you suggesting I said it or implied it.

While trawling about I found this apposite exchange between two posters named Icabodcrane & Gilet:

"You are funny gilet
You put such effort into presenting your posts in a suitably  serious  way  ...  when what you are actually  saying  is a load of old [ censored word ] nonsense"

 

[kizzy]

When Kate initially noticed the position of the door, she had absolutely no idea that Madeleine was missing. 

Only when she saw that Madeleine was not in her bed or anywhere in the apartment and the window was open and the shutter raised did she comprehend the absolute horror of the situation.

Why would she not think that maddie could have  moved it. [first thought you would think]

Like if she had gone to toilet - why did she not look at maddies bed

[slartibartfast]

Why would she not think that maddie could have  moved it. [first thought you would think]

Like if she had gone to toilet - why did she not look at maddies bed

It’s a mystery.

[Miss Taken Identity]

When Kate initially noticed the position of the door, she had absolutely no idea that Madeleine was missing. 

Only when she saw that Madeleine was not in her bed or anywhere in the apartment and the window was open and the shutter raised did she comprehend the absolute horror of the situation.

...and upon this discovery,told very eloquently, did she immediately call the police or call and scream for help? no...  she ran away leaving the other two children- told MBM was /missing/abducted?, they all went to look for the abductor with MBM.in thecrime scene and outside... Gerry and Kate both screamed when the police arrived.

Ofcourse, this does remind me of the J.M.Barrie story- Peter Pan , many similarities- three children left alone with only a dog as a nannie- boy flies in the window... Great read!

 do we think it was the PAN wot dun it? Is MBM in never land with the lost boys?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Why would she not think that maddie could have  moved it. [first thought you would think]

Like if she had gone to toilet - why did she not look at maddies bed

or even the two 30 hour checks  could have moved it.  the 9pm and 9.30pm person.

[Alice Purjorick]

It’s a mystery.

It's all of that.
"It wasn't at the angle we left it at/we thought it should be at/we would have liked it at".[delete as appropriate] ergo 'twere an abductor
No one should go on hols without one of these ....... just in case :
https://www.stanleytools.com/products/hand-tools/measuring-layout/squares/premium-adjustable-quick-square/46-053

[Miss Taken Identity]

It's all of that.
"It wasn't at the angle we left it at/we thought it should be at/we would have liked it at".[delete as appropriate] ergo 'twere an abductor
No one should go on hols without one of these ....... just in case :
https://www.stanleytools.com/products/hand-tools/measuring-layout/squares/premium-adjustable-quick-square/46-053

Would there be room for hedge strimmer  you know for that direct sight to the children's bedroom where they slept safely.. well..