Author Topic: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?  (Read 32833 times)

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Offline Gertrude

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2018, 08:20:41 AM »
Scotland Yard haven't given up on Madeleine.  We have no idea what they were looking for in PdL.  It may have been a body, it may have been other evidence.  Even if they were looking for a body, that is still looking for the girl, and not giving up on her, and striving to give her family closure one way or the other.  Amaral IMO harmed the search by pointing the finger at the parents and claiming they did it, and that there was no point looking for the girl as she was definitely dead, or for anyone else in connection with her disappearance.  Surely you can see the difference?

    Scotland Yard were quoted as saying they were looking for a body in 2014...so we do know they were looking for a body at that point.   I did make the point that looking for a body is not 'giving up', it's looking for the truth, so on that we agree.

  I don't believe Amaral harmed the search or wanted to stop looking for a body. I think he was doing exactly what SY have been doing, progressing the investigation and he would have looked for a body, but his investigation was closed down and was not carried through to the end was it?   He was attacked by the UK press amongst others for theorising about how a body would have been moved or hidden....which IMO is exactly what SY must have done when they were looking for a body in 2014. The difference is that SY have not commented on how they think a body could have got to the scrubland.

Offline barrier

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2018, 08:22:11 AM »
Did they follow up on Dr. Totman? Did they follow up with the other people who came forward to say they'd seen Murat at OC on 3/5/07 evening?
There may be crucial information sitting in files which only the PJ have access to. Maybe there are avenues which they, too, are reluctant or forbidden to pursue.

Are you suggesting that the PJ and the MET aren't sharing information.Hogan Howe told us there were thousands of pages of info that needed translating when asked what did 30+ officers do.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2018, 08:25:11 AM »
    Scotland Yard were quoted as saying they were looking for a body in 2014...so we do know they were looking for a body at that point.   I did make the point that looking for a body is not 'giving up', it's looking for the truth, so on that we agree.

  I don't believe Amaral harmed the search or wanted to stop looking for a body. I think he was doing exactly what SY have been doing, progressing the investigation and he would have looked for a body, but his investigation was closed down and was not carried through to the end was it?   He was attacked by the UK press amongst others for theorising about how a body would have been moved or hidden....which IMO is exactly what SY must have done when they were looking for a body in 2014. The difference is that SY have not commented on how they think a body could have got to the scrubland.
Bolded bit,not just the press.
It is difficult to see how Amaral harmed the search when SY searched in the same area has the girl disappeared.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2018, 08:27:18 AM »
Interesting that these women were 100% sure they saw Murat but have been largely ignored by police and online commentators as Murat had an alibi (his mother), whereas so many still have such great faith in Smith’s 60-80% sure he saw Gerry, despite the fact that he too had numerous alibis.  Why do you suppose that is?

I wonder why their statement to the British police in late 2007 never reached the PJ, that's what I wonder. Another one claiming she saw Murat was Charlotte Pennington, apparently. Telling the press and Metodo 3 but not the police is, imo, the wrong way to go about things. 

The sisters refused to comment last night. But Jayne's son Joe said: "They had an exhaustive interview with the British police and stand by that statement."........

The McCanns' friends Fiona Payne, Rachael Oldfield and Russell O'Brien say they saw him.

Charlotte Pennington, 20, of Leatherhead, Surrey, says he was hanging around reception - but when she confronted him next day as he translated her statement to police he denied it.

Two tourists told Metodo 3 they saw Murat walking outside the McCanns' flat.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sisters-saw-murat-at-mccann-flat-531256

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2018, 08:29:10 AM »
Which bit, allegedly?

That he spoke to the GNR.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2018, 08:38:58 AM »
That he spoke to the GNR.
Well either he did or he’s lying, and I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be accusing him of that would you?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2018, 08:47:51 AM »
 The point was not about who was or wasn’t allegedly carrying a child, the point was the degree to which the witnesses were convinced about what they saw, off set by the respective alibis, and the fact that one set if witnesses (the surer set) have been all but ignored in this case, while the less sure (the Smiths) - their sighting is considered of huge significance in this case (by some at any rate) -  got it now?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 08:52:57 AM by Eleanor »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline jassi

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2018, 08:56:04 AM »
The point was not about who was or wasn’t allegedly carrying a child, the point was the degree to which the witnesses were convinced about what they saw, off set by the respective alibis, and the fact that one set if witnesses (the surer set) have been all but ignored in this case, while the less sure (the Smiths) - their sighting is considered of huge significance in this case (by some at any rate) -  got it now?

Who do you consider the surer set - friends & relatives or independents ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline John

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #98 on: May 28, 2018, 09:22:36 AM »
Posters are reminded not to get distracted by side issues. 

This thread relates to current events or more precisely the absence of them when considering if the case is being intentionally allowed to peter out.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 08:13:07 PM by Angelo222 »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #99 on: May 28, 2018, 09:26:40 AM »
Allegedly.

Snip
But Mr Totman, a GP, had already told the Guarda Nacional Republicana in May that he could be the man seen by Ms Tanner that night.
Wife Rachel told the Sun: ‘My husband had told the local police it could be him but we didn’t hear anything for years. ‘We always thought it was Julian who was seen by Jane Tanner. But the national police who investigated didn’t get back to us and we don’t know if our information was ever passed on.’ Rachel, who lives with Julian in the West Country, said police in the UK and Portugal never got back to them.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/?ito=cbshare



A garbled and in my opinion an inaccurately assessed version was put on his internet blog by Paolo Reis in 2009.  Which in my opinion reveals that the information was there in 2007 and although misinterpreted by this blogger was available and ready for further police investigation which might have progressed Madeleine's case. In my opinion the case for the allegation that important information which might have helped to recover Madeleine was ignored is self evident from snippets like this and the testimony of witnesses saying they had given information and heard nothing further.
In my opinion the evidence is that the police had determined an agenda and ignored anything that did not fit their preconceived version of events.


 
Snip
Light was thrown on the identity of “JW” in an article in the Sun on 12th May 2009 by Antonella Lazzeri (another McCann close confidante) who stated:
She is a 36 year old mother of two: one a 3 year old girl
She rented an apartment 3 doors away from Apartment 5A
She reported her suspicions to her local police – in Wiltshire – in May 2007
***************************************************************
Another link between the Weinbur or Weinbergers and Wiltshire is the fact that they made dinner bookings at the Tapas Bar with Dr Julian Totman who is also from Salisbury in Wiltshire.
Miss Lazzeri reported that JW, on returning from Portugal, in May 2007, informed her local police – based in Wiltshire (and thus a link to Paul M Weinberger in Wiltshire) who advised the Leicestershire police who
“failed to follow up her lead. It was only when she received an emotional phone call from Maddie’s mum Kate nearly two years later (thus in April or May 2009 possibly to get a bit more spice for the Channel 4 program) that a photofit based on her description was put together…. When Kate asked me to help, I agreed immediately. But the police should have asked 2 years ago. It was only after Kate got in touch that the woman learnt two other witnesses saw an identical man… I can’t believe our three sightings weren’t linked earlier”
The problem is, which “JW” was not told, that the descriptions given to the PJ by the “two other witnesses” were nothing like “Pimple Man” and that their reports had been fully investigated, the suspects identified and eliminated. But failure to act on “JW’s” evidence adds to the Leicestershire Police’s record of tardiness in its delayed handing of the statements of Kate and Arul, photographs of potential suspects: not to mention a recent detailed report on the crèche records. Can any police force be that bad? Or was Leicestershire’s job simply to kill the investigation, possibly on Home Office instructions, whose political intervention – in such cases as Damian Green – are so worrying? And if “JW” attached any importance to her sighting why did she do nothing further about it for 2 years, especially when it might have qualified her for a large reward? And why did Kate McCann leave it until the last moment to call her? The bottom line is that “JW’s” “evidence” justifies very close scrutiny.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2018, 09:38:56 AM »
Who do you consider the surer set - friends & relatives or independents ?
Those who claim something with 100% surety, in this case two independents.  Now, back on topic as per John’s instructions.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Brietta

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2018, 09:45:48 AM »
Posters are reminded not to get distracted by side issues. 

This thread relates to current events or more precisely the absence of them when considering if the case is being intentionally allowed to peter out.

Sorry, John, my post crossed yours.

If the case is petering out I think it is because this time round investigative opportunities have been dealt with leaving only, in the case of Scotland Yard, one issue to be addressed.  As is appropriate we haven't been told what that is

We have no idea short of knowing that their investigation continues, about anything the PJ are doing because they have said nothing at all.
The PJ started with Euclides just as SY started with three burglars and I think that is as much as we have been allowed to know.

I'm at ease with that situation.  As far as I am concerned regarding the investigation - no news is good news.  My only wish for speeding things up would be to resolve things for Madeleine and her family for whom all this must be daily torture.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2018, 09:56:04 AM »
Well either he did or he’s lying, and I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be accusing him of that would you?

That's not for me to say. All I can say is there's no evidence which confirms the assertion.
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Offline barrier

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2018, 10:09:32 AM »
Posters are reminded not to get distracted by side issues. 

This thread relates to current events or more precisely the absence of them when considering if the case is being intentionally allowed to peter out.

Its hard to see imo how its not being allowed to peter out,imo again SY played their hand with the ridiculous theory about a burglary gone wrong with the questioning of three alleged burgalars,which followed the digs. Twelve months on from that the team was drastically reduced to just four,not a sign that it was leading anywhere fast.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Carana

Re: Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?
« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2018, 10:28:27 AM »
Protocol dictates that official enquiries in Portugal are channelled through the Portuguese police.  However, there are many ways of getting around this as Jenny Murat very publicly achieved in 2007. She was well aware of the very issue you raise.



Jenny Murat is an elderly former local who happens to be fluent in both English and Portuguese (which most of the GNR and the PJ weren't) and, at that time, unconnected to the saga.

I find it quite plausible that she was a) aware of the language barrier and b) could think of numerous reasons why people with potentially useful information might have been reluctant to queue up for formal police interviews.

The McCanns didn't, quite aside from the fact that by all accounts they were barely able to function in the initial aftermath.

How could they have manned a stand inviting anonymous tips with the world's media filming everyone who came anywhere near them?