Timeline May 3rd

[John]

There have been a lot of complaints recently about moderation. Some members feel that they have been unfairly moderated while some moderators are feeling exasperated. I try not to intervene in disputes but sometimes it is simply necessary.

I intend to introduce new moderation rules and enhanced penalties for any member who continues to breach our rules. In the meantime I will be monitoring posts and will be applying severe sanctions should this poor behaviour continue.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Pleasure and exactly as you would expect - just as we also see a discrepancy in the timeline of M.Oldfield and G. McCann.

The important point is that neither independent witness places GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

No, he had by then left the table  to run to the apartment as the alarm was raised a few minute earlier.  And this is important because it means he could not have been anywhere else at the time, as some have desperately tried to prove.

[Lace]

What's your basis for claiming that?

Here's another independent witness that states the alarm was raised earlier. It's also worth bearing in mind that an employee is likely to have a better idea of the time than a group on holiday eating and drinking. It's also worth pointing out that nothing is lost in translation with this statement:

Arlindo Peleja (Executive Chef at the Ocean Club).

...."He remembers having seen in that esplanade, one table, occupied by three couples, without children, and all of them adults. On the esplanade, he encountered no one else.
. A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples...."

How on earth could the alert have been given at 21.20?  The Payne' s hadn't arrived at the Tapas Bar until 9 o'clock.  They would be eating their starters at that time.   The waiter saw all the eight plates cleared and that Russell eaten half of dinner that they had remade for him.   This man obviously meant 22.20 IMO

[Vertigo Swirl]

How on earth could the alert have been given at 21.20?  The Payne' s hadn't arrived at the Tapas Bar until 9 o'clock.  They would be eating their starters at that time.   The waiter saw all the eight plates cleared and that Russell eaten half of dinner that they had remade for him.   This man obviously meant 22.20 IMO

Obvious to people who can think logically maybe, and who allow for human error.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

How on earth could the alert have been given at 21.20?  The Payne' s hadn't arrived at the Tapas Bar until 9 o'clock.  They would be eating their starters at that time.   The waiter saw all the eight plates cleared and that Russell eaten half of dinner that they had remade for him.   This man obviously meant 22.20 IMO

No chance. That would mean they all got up to look for MM at 22:40. That doesn’t fit any timeline. It’s not remotely close. One Tapas employee states the group vacated the table around 21:40 and the other just after 21:45. That seems quite consistent to me. Neither independent witness places GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No chance. That would mean they all got up to look for MM at 22:40. That doesn’t fit any timeline. It’s not remotely close. One Tapas employee states the group vacated the table around 21:40 and the other just after 21:45. That seems quite consistent to me. Neither independent witness places GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

I don’t think you’re reading it right.

A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared

Now change the time to 2220 and it makes perfect sense.  He is talking about the aftermath of the discovery of Madeleine’s disappearance.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I don’t think you’re reading it right.

A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared

Now change the time to 2220 and it makes perfect sense.  He is talking about the aftermath of the discovery of Madeleine’s disappearance.

There is no chance anyone believed the T7 were at the Tapas Bar at 22:20.... Read the employees full statement. He states some other times and the events he witnessed follow chronologically. He did not mean 22:20 imho.

[Vertigo Swirl]

There is no chance anyone believed the T7 were at the Tapas Bar at 22:20.... Read the employees full statement. He states some other times and the events he witnessed follow chronologically. He did not mean 22:20 imho.

No one has said anyone believes the T7 were at the Tapas bar at 22:20, I don’t know what you’re on about.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

No one has said anyone believes the T7 were at the Tapas bar at 22:20, I don’t know what you’re on about.

If the employee meant "22:20" then that is exactly what is implied... it implies his next stated time must be "22:40".... He didn't mean that - that is clutching at straws... Just look at what you are saying....

 ......"Later, at around 21:40, [22:40 in your opinion] he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items"

[Vertigo Swirl]

If the employee meant "22:20" then that is exactly what is implied... it implies his next stated time must be "22:40".... He didn't mean that - that is clutching at straws... Just look at what you are saying....

 ......"Later, at around 21:40, [22:40 in your opinion] he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items"

selective use of red highlighting there.  You missed out the word EMPTY toward the end of the sentence.

Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing

[G-Unit]

How on earth could the alert have been given at 21.20?  The Payne' s hadn't arrived at the Tapas Bar until 9 o'clock.  They would be eating their starters at that time.   The waiter saw all the eight plates cleared and that Russell eaten half of dinner that they had remade for him.   This man obviously meant 22.20 IMO

At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

[Vertigo Swirl]

Arlindo Peleja (Executive Chef at the Ocean Club).

...."He remembers having seen in that esplanade, one table, occupied by three couples, without children, and all of them adults. On the esplanade, he encountered no one else.
. A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples...."

This statement makes no sense.  How was Peleja informed a child was missing at 21.20, and then 20 minutes later passes the Tapas table to  find everyone has left the table?  Was he told she was missing before Kate even raised the alarm then?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Arlindo Peleja (Executive Chef at the Ocean Club).

...."He remembers having seen in that esplanade, one table, occupied by three couples, without children, and all of them adults. On the esplanade, he encountered no one else.
. A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples...."

This statement makes no sense.  How was Peleja informed a child was missing at 21.20, and then 20 minutes later passes the Tapas table to  find everyone has left the table?  Was he told she was missing before Kate even raised the alarm then?

 It points to the possibility that, according to independent witness statements, the T7 were aware MM was missing before 22:00. It points to the possibility that GM's precise account of a 22:03 time for KM check is erroneous, imo. The belief that Gerry was wrong about the time of KM's check is, imo, backed up by Oldfield (KM's check was at 21:50) and two independent witnesses who say the T9 had vacated the table (to look for MM) by "21;40" or "around 21:45".

[Vertigo Swirl]

It points to the possibility that, according to independent witness statements, the T7 were aware MM was missing before 22:00. It points to the possibility that GM's precise account of a 22:03 time for KM check is erroneous, imo. The belief that Gerry was wrong about the time of KM's check is, imo, backed up by Oldfield (KM's check was at 21:50) and two independent witnesses who say the T9 had vacated the table (to look for MM) by "21;40" or "around 21:45".

Weird that you are unable to acknowledge how nonsensical the statement is, oh well, you can take a horse to water etc.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

selective use of red highlighting there.  You missed out the word EMPTY toward the end of the sentence.

Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing

It's pretty straightforward.

The witness states the group are at the table at 21:20 and that the table is empty by 21:40.

If you follow the entire statement it is quite clear that he doesn't mean 22:20 and 22:40. He was an employee he wouldn't get the time wrong by an hour.

If you believe he's an hour out do you honestly believe the group first heard off MM's disappearance at 22:20?