Author Topic: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?  (Read 92281 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #225 on: July 30, 2018, 10:23:25 PM »
So of the four arguidos ... only Amaral enjoys the presumption of innocence?  How on earth does that work since he was judged as being guilty?

What’s that got to do with the thread?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #226 on: July 30, 2018, 10:28:26 PM »
It depends if you believe the dogs Brietta.

I prefer conclusions to be evidence based.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #227 on: July 30, 2018, 10:30:41 PM »
What’s that got to do with the thread?

As much if not more than anything you have posted tonight.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #228 on: July 30, 2018, 10:31:12 PM »
It depends if you believe the dogs Brietta.

The dog alerts are not evidence....as SY believe Maddie may still be alive then SY don't believe them either


The dogs have been discussed extensively and imo...based on what grime and Harrison said ...have no value or reliability as evidence

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #229 on: July 30, 2018, 10:53:56 PM »
The dog alerts are not evidence....as SY believe Maddie may still be alive then SY don't believe them either


The dogs have been discussed extensively and imo...based on what grime and Harrison said ...have no value or reliability as evidence
They need an alternative explanation at least.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #230 on: July 30, 2018, 10:55:28 PM »
They need an alternative explanation at least.

There are alternatives that have been discussed....sunny raised the alerts but they are seriously off topic

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #231 on: July 30, 2018, 11:48:55 PM »
I've already found it...


http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-new-directive-on-presumption-of.html?m=1


Article 2 confirms that the Directive will apply at “all stages from the moment when a person is suspected or accused of having committed a criminal offence, or an alleged criminal offence, until the final determination of the question whether the person has committed the offence concerned and that decision has become definitive
Link article effectively dates to 2016, so what is the relevance to 2007?
What's up, old man?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #232 on: July 31, 2018, 07:13:14 AM »
As much if not more than anything you have posted tonight.

No, GA had nothing to do with the McCanns case against the British Press.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #233 on: July 31, 2018, 07:50:32 AM »
So does that mean you’re less innocent if you haven’t been charged?

The presumption of innocence is a legal protection for people officially suspected of, arrested or tried for committing a crime. Those not suspected etc. have no need of that protection.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #234 on: July 31, 2018, 08:03:26 AM »
The presumption of innocence is a legal protection for people officially suspected of, arrested or tried for committing a crime. Those not suspected etc. have no need of that protection.
So when the McCanns were arguidos they were presumed innocent.  Now they’re not we can presume whatever we like, is that it?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #235 on: July 31, 2018, 08:06:00 AM »
So when the McCanns were arguidos they were presumed innocent.  Now they’re not we can presume whatever we like, is that it?

according to teh SC they had no right to the presumption of innocence...a bizarre judgeemnt..

Arguição de Nulidade do Acórdão
Below is a copy of the McCann's request for annulment of the Supreme Court´s decision, filed by the couple´s lawyer on the 16th of February, 2017. We understand that the filing of this appeal has a suspensive effect on the Supreme Court´s ruling.

The request alleges that the Supreme Court´s decision "lacks a foundation (...) in stating that one cannot invoke the principle of presumption of innocence in order to restrict the right to freedom of expression, because it is based on the erroneous presumption that the archiving of the criminal investigation 'was determined because it was not possible for the Public Ministry to obtain enough indications of the practice of crimes by the appellants'".

In case you are struggling with the legalese (we do), here is what we understand to be the reasoning behind the request:

1. The McCanns have invoked the principle of presumption of innocence to justify the restrictions they want imposed on dr. Amaral's freedom of expression;

2. The Supreme Court stated, in its ruling, that the above is no argument because the McCanns were not considered innocent by the investigation and the case was archived because not enough evidence was found to charge them.

3. The McCanns, because they believe the above argument is false, request for the Supreme Court's decision to be nullified.




the Sc did not say they were not entitled to the presumption of innocence because thy had not been charged....but because they had not been cleared..........no wonder there is a case going to the ECHR
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 08:10:55 AM by Davel »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #236 on: July 31, 2018, 08:11:56 AM »
So of the four arguidos ... only Amaral enjoys the presumption of innocence?  How on earth does that work since he was judged as being guilty?
At the moment none of the former arguidos enjoy the protection of the presumption of innocence because none of them are involved with the law as suspects or defendants.

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #237 on: July 31, 2018, 08:14:25 AM »
At the moment none of the former arguidos enjoy the protection of the presumption of innocence because none of them are involved with the law as suspects or defendants.
Are they protected in law from false allegations of guilt?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #238 on: July 31, 2018, 08:16:10 AM »
At the moment none of the former arguidos enjoy the protection of the presumption of innocence because none of them are involved with the law as suspects or defendants.

Article 2 confirms that the Directive will apply at “all stages from the moment when a person is suspected or accused of having committed a criminal offence, or an alleged criminal offence, until the final determination of the question whether the person has committed the offence concerned and that decision has become definitive

so has it been determined that the mccanns have NOT committed the offence..from that statement the mccanns are either innocent or entitled to the presumption of innocence
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 08:21:30 AM by Davel »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #239 on: July 31, 2018, 08:35:09 AM »
So when the McCanns were arguidos they were presumed innocent.  Now they’re not we can presume whatever we like, is that it?

When they were arguidos they were entitled to the protection of the presumption of innocence by the legal system in Portugal. I don't think they were entitled to be presumed innocent by anyone else. They have always enjoyed the right to sue anyone who slanders or defames them, just as we all do.
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