Author Topic: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?  (Read 92263 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #390 on: August 02, 2018, 09:25:40 AM »
I won't be in a hurry to enforce it for it seems a time consuming process to find out if a cite was answered at all.
I have let John know of the difficulty.

Perhaps there would be less difficulty if the forum was treated less than a point scoring war zone and more of a discussion forum where actual discussion was allowed to take place.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #391 on: August 02, 2018, 09:54:56 AM »
Perhaps there would be less difficulty if the forum was treated less than a point scoring war zone and more of a discussion forum where actual discussion was allowed to take place.

How useful is discussion if people post opinions but claim they are facts? The only way to check if a fact is a fact is by a cite being provided. The rules which distinguish opinion from fact were introduced because heated arguments were taking place over unsubstantiated 'facts', as I recall.

I don't think the media were wrong to settle out of court because they were guilty of repeating rumours about what evidence the PJ had. Unlike Amaral who repeated what the PJ actually had, as the Portuguese courts noted.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #392 on: August 02, 2018, 09:57:59 AM »
How useful is discussion if people post opinions but claim they are facts? The only way to check if a fact is a fact is by a cite being provided. The rules which distinguish opinion from fact were introduced because heated arguments were taking place over unsubstantiated 'facts', as I recall.

I don't think the media were wrong to settle out of court because they were guilty of repeating rumours about what evidence the PJ had. Unlike Amaral who repeated what the PJ actually had, as the Portuguese courts noted.

The courts said most of what amaral said was in the files.... he added to them with things that were not true...he also misrepresented some of the evidence

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #393 on: August 02, 2018, 10:14:37 AM »
The courts said most of what amaral said was in the files.... he added to them with things that were not true...he also misrepresented some of the evidence

In your opinion.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #394 on: August 02, 2018, 10:59:18 AM »
How useful is discussion if people post opinions but claim they are facts? The only way to check if a fact is a fact is by a cite being provided. The rules which distinguish opinion from fact were introduced because heated arguments were taking place over unsubstantiated 'facts', as I recall.

I don't think the media were wrong to settle out of court because they were guilty of repeating rumours about what evidence the PJ had. Unlike Amaral who repeated what the PJ actually had, as the Portuguese courts noted.

There was a moment in time when Amaral was in charge of an investigation which in my opinion followed entirely the wrong tack.

That situation was rectified when he was sacked and replaced by a competent investigation led by Paulo Rebelo which followed and investigated the evidence which had been misunderstood and which was misinterpreted by the investigation despite having Portuguese experts on hand well capable of interpreting and explaining complex scientific data to them.

Rebelo did that.  He carried out due diligence and followed and analysed the evidence.

Snip
The comments came a day after a four-strong team of Portuguese police and forensic experts met with their British counterparts in Leicestershire to hold a “summit” on the case.

The Portuguese team spent Thursday afternoon with five experts from Birmingham’s Forensic Science Service (FSS) considering DNA results from tests the organisation has been conducting on behalf of the authorities in Portugal over the last four months.

The tests are said to have been carried out on microscopic blood samples, bodily fluids and hair found in the McCanns’ holiday apartment and the vehicle they hired 25 days after the four-year-old disappeared.

Sources close to the investigation said the results had proved “inconclusive” and were not alone strong enough to support a prosecution against Madeleine’s parents.

But following “crisis talks” over the future of the investigation at the regional headquarters of the Policia Judiciaria in Faro, detectives were finally granted permission to pursue their inquiries in Britain, according to a report on SIC, the Portuguese news broadcaster.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571058/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-may-face-more-questions.html

Goncalo Amaral coordinated an investigation which reached opinions and conclusions which were superseded and dismissed by properly conducted investigation which resulted in the McCanns and Murat being released from their arguido status with what should have been without a stain on their characters.
Patently that did not happen.

The misconceptions of the original investigation were leaked to the Portuguese press and were picked up and repeated by the British press as well as worldwide.
But that was not the whole story ... the reasons behind making the McCanns arguidos could not be sustained once the forensics came in and were understood and the owner of the English dogs actual statement was released and understood.

The press printed defamation and libel and paid the price as a result not least to their integrity.

Don't you think it is about time that you and others consign the failed first investigation with it's interim report to the dustbin of history where it belongs.
In my opinion it signifies little more than failure and a stumbling investigation which had lost its way leaving Rebelo to pick up the pieces until ... sadly for Madeleine ... he was in my opinion overtaken by the legal strictures of time which led to her case being archived.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Sunny

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #395 on: August 02, 2018, 12:13:17 PM »
If Rebelo's investigation was so positive for the McCanns why did their friends refuse to take part in a reconstruction in May 2008 which would surely have enabled narrowing down the window of opportunity for any abductor.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #396 on: August 02, 2018, 12:23:55 PM »
How useful is discussion if people post opinions but claim they are facts? The only way to check if a fact is a fact is by a cite being provided. The rules which distinguish opinion from fact were introduced because heated arguments were taking place over unsubstantiated 'facts', as I recall.

I don't think the media were wrong to settle out of court because they were guilty of repeating rumours about what evidence the PJ had. Unlike Amaral who repeated what the PJ actually had, as the Portuguese courts noted.
But the PJ still only had opinion and and not hard cold facts.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #397 on: August 02, 2018, 12:25:56 PM »
If Rebelo's investigation was so positive for the McCanns why did their friends refuse to take part in a reconstruction in May 2008 which would surely have enabled narrowing down the window of opportunity for any abductor.
How could it have proved anything or narrowed anything? 
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #398 on: August 02, 2018, 12:45:14 PM »
There was a moment in time when Amaral was in charge of an investigation which in my opinion followed entirely the wrong tack.

That situation was rectified when he was sacked and replaced by a competent investigation led by Paulo Rebelo which followed and investigated the evidence which had been misunderstood and which was misinterpreted by the investigation despite having Portuguese experts on hand well capable of interpreting and explaining complex scientific data to them.

Rebelo did that.  He carried out due diligence and followed and analysed the evidence.

Snip
The comments came a day after a four-strong team of Portuguese police and forensic experts met with their British counterparts in Leicestershire to hold a “summit” on the case.

The Portuguese team spent Thursday afternoon with five experts from Birmingham’s Forensic Science Service (FSS) considering DNA results from tests the organisation has been conducting on behalf of the authorities in Portugal over the last four months.

The tests are said to have been carried out on microscopic blood samples, bodily fluids and hair found in the McCanns’ holiday apartment and the vehicle they hired 25 days after the four-year-old disappeared.

Sources close to the investigation said the results had proved “inconclusive” and were not alone strong enough to support a prosecution against Madeleine’s parents.

But following “crisis talks” over the future of the investigation at the regional headquarters of the Policia Judiciaria in Faro, detectives were finally granted permission to pursue their inquiries in Britain, according to a report on SIC, the Portuguese news broadcaster.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571058/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-may-face-more-questions.html

Goncalo Amaral coordinated an investigation which reached opinions and conclusions which were superseded and dismissed by properly conducted investigation which resulted in the McCanns and Murat being released from their arguido status with what should have been without a stain on their characters.
Patently that did not happen.

The misconceptions of the original investigation were leaked to the Portuguese press and were picked up and repeated by the British press as well as worldwide.
But that was not the whole story ... the reasons behind making the McCanns arguidos could not be sustained once the forensics came in and were understood and the owner of the English dogs actual statement was released and understood.

The press printed defamation and libel and paid the price as a result not least to their integrity.

Don't you think it is about time that you and others consign the failed first investigation with it's interim report to the dustbin of history where it belongs.
In my opinion it signifies little more than failure and a stumbling investigation which had lost its way leaving Rebelo to pick up the pieces until ... sadly for Madeleine ... he was in my opinion overtaken by the legal strictures of time which led to her case being archived.

I wonder why you chose to ignore my first paragraph?
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Offline Sunny

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #399 on: August 02, 2018, 12:55:41 PM »
How could it have proved anything or narrowed anything?

If they could pin down the times that people walked backwards and forwards in front of 5a they may be able to see windows when an abductor may have been able to go in and snatch Maddie.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Brietta

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #400 on: August 02, 2018, 12:55:57 PM »
I wonder why you chose to ignore my first paragraph?

Please desist from this nonsense. 

As signified by "Snip" the extract I posted what was relative to my post.

As signified by https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571058/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-may-face-more-questions.html the whole article is available here.


In my opinion you are deflecting from the content of the post ... particularly as you have studiously avoided any reference to it relying instead on nit-picking.

Are you here to take part in discussion ... or are you here to obstruct opinions with which you disagree?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #401 on: August 02, 2018, 01:18:20 PM »
Please desist from this nonsense. 

As signified by "Snip" the extract I posted what was relative to my post.

As signified by https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571058/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-may-face-more-questions.html the whole article is available here.


In my opinion you are deflecting from the content of the post ... particularly as you have studiously avoided any reference to it relying instead on nit-picking.

Are you here to take part in discussion ... or are you here to obstruct opinions with which you disagree?

Sorry, I didn't understand why you launched an attack on Amaral. I simply pointed out that he won the libel action taken out against him by the McCanns. In my opinion the UK newspapers probably would have lost if they had chosen to go to court because they didn't stick to the facts like he did.

I'm quite happy to discuss opinions posted as opinions or facts with cites. I have no interest in arguing whether an opinion is or is not a fact.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #402 on: August 02, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
If they could pin down the times that people walked backwards and forwards in front of 5a they may be able to see windows when an abductor may have been able to go in and snatch Maddie.
You could do that on paper.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #403 on: August 02, 2018, 01:27:08 PM »
Sorry, I didn't understand why you launched an attack on Amaral. I simply pointed out that he won the libel action taken out against him by the McCanns. In my opinion the UK newspapers probably would have lost if they had chosen to go to court because they didn't stick to the facts like he did.

I'm quite happy to discuss opinions posted as opinions or facts with cites. I have no interest in arguing whether an opinion is or is not a fact.

He didn't stick to the facts...Eddie did not find a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey and did not help solve 200 cases...

Offline jassi

Re: Were the media wrong to settle defamation actions out of court?
« Reply #404 on: August 02, 2018, 01:41:41 PM »
You could do that on paper.

Indeed you could, but if you have the people present then any disputes between witnesses can be more easily resolved.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future