Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?

[Mr Gray]

Does it have both alpha and beta half lives?

of course

[Sunny]

Ketamine

Consciousness
Given that many paediatric sedations take place in ED in the evening and often around or after a child’s usual bed-time,
a child (> 6 months of age) may be discharged asleep if more than 1 hour has elapsed since last IV sedative/narcotic, or
>2 hours since last IM sedative/narcotic AND if the child is rousable with gentle stimulation.
 Fully awake (normal age appropriate verbalisation or interactivity, follows commands) - 2 points
 Rousable but unable to follow commands (if usually able) - 1 point
Unresponsive - 0 points, not for discharge until rousable.

Google cite http://www.anzctr.org.au/AnzctrAttachments/370334-24.02.16%20KINDER%20Protocol%20version%202.0.pdf

Yours?

[Brietta]

What evidence is there that the twins were not?   

Just as Kate was forced to undertake drug tests to disprove the smears bandied about regarding herself ... it was deemed necessary that the twins had to be likewise tested for the same reason.

Snip
It is understood the couple’s legal team hired forensic specialists to examine hair samples from the twins, who were in the same room as Madeleine in the Ocean Club apartment in Praia da Luz when she disappeared an May 3, and no trace of sedative was found.

A source close to the legal team said: “It would be logical for tests to be carried out on the twins to show that they have never been given sedatives.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566664/Proof-McCanns-did-not-sedate-Madeleine.html

[Sunny]

I see my last post was whooshed. The crux of it was why weren't the twins and Kate tested within days rather than months of Maddie going missing. What drugs would show up in their hair samples and were there any that would not. Particularly Ketamine as it has appeared on this thread already.  Just IMO of course.

[Sunny]

I have if you read back. They may not "wake up" but they were "rousable" after 2 hours. I can't find a cite from you saying they were not rousable after 8 hours. You being the expert it should be easy. Thanks Davel.

[Mr Gray]

I have if you read back. They may not "wake up" but they were "rousable" after 2 hours. I can't find a cite from you saying they were not rousable after 8 hours. You being the expert it should be easy. Thanks Davel.

So no cite for waking up after one hour...I never said they would not be rousable after 8 hours I said they would sleep for 8 hours...your claims are totally jumbled

[Sunny]

So no cite for waking up after one hour...I never said they would not be rousable after 8 hours I said they would sleep for 8 hours...your claims are totally jumbled

I did modify my post to 2.5 hours here

Here you are.

Following intravenous administration, ketamine produces anesthetic effect rapidly (within 30 seconds following a 2 milligram per kilogram dose) and lasts for about 5 to 10 minutes. Intramuscular administration produces anesthetic effects in 3 to 4 minutes, lasting 12 to 25 minutes. The sedative effects of ketamine can last for 45 minutes to 2.5 hours, which explains why sub-anesthetic doses can be used for analgesia alone. The larger the total dose of ketamine, the longer the time until complete recovery.

https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/narcotics-safes/articles/3031532-Ketamine-Drug-Whys/

Ok this time it is intravenous but I can't see the effect being longer than 2.5 hours if applied internasally.

And I did say rousable. Kids can sleep for a lot longer than 8 hours without any sedative help as anyone knows. We were talking about the twins and their lack of response despite the noise and disruption they experienced on the 3rd/4th May 2007.
Or are you as a self proclaimed expert on these matters now trying to say that kids sleep for 8 plus hours at a time? Yes they do and they do it all the time. That isn't what the discussion was about.

[Mr Gray]

I did modify my post to 2.5 hours here

Here you are.

Following intravenous administration, ketamine produces anesthetic effect rapidly (within 30 seconds following a 2 milligram per kilogram dose) and lasts for about 5 to 10 minutes. Intramuscular administration produces anesthetic effects in 3 to 4 minutes, lasting 12 to 25 minutes. The sedative effects of ketamine can last for 45 minutes to 2.5 hours, which explains why sub-anesthetic doses can be used for analgesia alone. The larger the total dose of ketamine, the longer the time until complete recovery.

https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/narcotics-safes/articles/3031532-Ketamine-Drug-Whys/

Ok this time it is intravenous but I can't see the effect being longer than 2.5 hours if applied internasally.

And I did say rousable. Kids can sleep for a lot longer than 8 hours without any sedative help as anyone knows. We were talking about the twins and their lack of response despite the noise and disruption they experienced on the 3rd/4th May 2007.
Or are you as a self proclaimed expert on these matters now trying to say that kids sleep for 8 plus hours at a time? Yes they do and they do it all the time. That isn't what the discussion was about.

if i was petty, I would ask you for a cite as to where I have proclaimed to be an expert.....when my words were im not an expert...gunits original post referred to children sleeping for 8 hours.

[John]

Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

[Robittybob1]

I think if you claim to have used ketamine professionally you should tell us something that convinces us you are a professional. 

[Robittybob1]

Well I thought you were clearly claiming personal experience.  Weren't you claiming to be some sort of expert?  You've lost me now.

Davel: What is your personal experience with the use of ketamine?

[Mr Gray]

Well I thought you were clearly claiming personal experience.  Weren't you claiming to be some sort of expert?  You've lost me now.

Davel: What is your personal experience with the use of ketamine?

My experience is in sedation and some general anaesthesia...

[Robittybob1]

My experience is in sedation and some general anaesthesia...

But not in the use of ketamine.  Is that what you are now saying?

[Mr Gray]

But not in the use of ketamine.  Is that what you are now saying?

it isnt what I am now saying...provide a cite if you think i have said something different

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

[Robittybob1]

I have never claimed to have used ketamine if you read my posts...I have claimed 40 years experience in sedation..

Some original posts have been removed but this is still as a quote "Quote from: Davel on Today at 06:18:17 PM
I have provided a detailed explanation as to why a child would sleep for 8 hrs after a single dose of ketamine....I would think most posters understand it...the fact you don't is your problem"

So that reference to ketamine is not from personal experience.  Have I understood that correctly?