Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[jassi]

  No, I don't think that's very likely but of course it's possible - anything's possible.  Like it's possible that Madeleine was murdered by a man who had killed before or who had an unhealthy interest in dead bodies and who contaminated the apartment with the smell of death.

That's a novel excuse.

[Mr Gray]

So SY have come up with a new lead where the PJ failed.

[Mr Gray]

That's a novel excuse.

It was Grime who suggested contamination

[Alfred R Jones]

That's a novel excuse.

It's not an excuse, it's a possibility - unless you'd like to tell me why it isn't?

[Alfred R Jones]

Nah - that's not an excuse.

You seem to find the thought that Madeleine's killer might have killed before hence contaminating the apartment with cadaver odour somewhat comical, yet have no problem whatsoever imagining that the parents of a child, having accidentally killed her, took her for rides in a car back and forth between locations weeks after her death.  Oh well, whatever floats your boat.   

[pegasus]

Presumably the dog's nose was located close to one of the drain holes in the base of the driver door / seal, these being the pathways for the air signalled?

[Mr Gray]

I just hope the dogs in PDL do not alert but no corroborating forensics are found...can you imagine the next million dog posts..the alerts prove maddie must have been there

[stephen25000]

The dog was pulling on the leash when walking down the outside passage before he got near the front door.  I doubt he could smell cadaver odour in the bedroom on the other side of the appartment, in a closed building and behind a recessed front door.   
But he had just been let out of his cage, and he was a bit manic anyway.

Are you an expert on dog handling as well ?

[sadie]

Are you an expert on dog handling as well ?

Are you?

[stephen25000]

Are you?

I answered that one earlier.

[sadie]

I answered that one earlier.

You are not are you?

 

[pegasus]

"the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog"
Any comments?

[pegasus]

A question for those who have the ridiculously low opinion of Eddie, that he would not signal an item with relevant scent on it if it looks like a play/reward object, unless it is hidden in a sideboard so he can't see it -

So what are you saying about the tennis ball, exactly, the real tennis ball he found in the EVRD search of another apartment in the files, do you deduce that it might have had scent on, and Eddie didn't alert because it looked like fun to play with? There was no second test with it hidden in a sideboard, so are you saying it might have scent on and might not IYO?

[Silkywhiskers]

A question for those who have the ridiculously low opinion of Eddie that he never signals playable items even if they have scent on, unless they are hidden in a sideboard so he can't see them -

So what are you saying about the tennis ball, exactly, the one mentioned in the EVRD searches in the files, do you deduce that it might have had scent on, and Eddie didn't alert because it looked like fun to play with?

The dog "shows interest" in a lot of things.

It's a dog.

The only way he can be used to focus on ONE thing, is if he's trained to that one thing, then constantly reminded that's what he's looking for. 

This explains the apparent "prompting" from Grime.

Grime has to keep reminding Eddie what he's looking for.

Dogs are by nature, easily distracted by different scent and need their trainer to constantly prod them back when their attention strays.

The better the dog, the less reminding he needs.

The older and more experienced the dog, the less reminding he needs.

Some dogs have better concentration than others, and keener smell too - these are the ones that make it to the elite level like Eddie and Keela.

But at the end of the day they are still dogs, liable to be distracted by a butterfly or even a shadow.

It is up to the trainer, in this case Grime, to work with the dog and bring out the best in the dog.  He alone can interpret what the dog is saying.

I note that Eddie got agitated the minute he walked into 5a.

Grime clearly states that Eddie was excited.  He had just been reminded he was looking for cadaver, and his entire body language alerted.

I live with dogs now and it's amazing how well they communicate with their body language.  Cats are vocal, dogs are not, so they use their entire bodies to tell you what they mean. 

Possibly only the person on the other end of the lead can tell precisely when the dog alerts, and what it thinks it smells.  The rest of us are just guessing.

Add in the glaring fact that apparently they are looking for a body, and you have Eddie's work supported and validated.

[Brietta]

I just hope the dogs in PDL do not alert but no corroborating forensics are found...can you imagine the next million dog posts..the alerts prove maddie must have been there

“Dogs don’t lie” but neither does the science and I really don’t think the science has any definitive conclusion to make about exactly what it is dogs alert to.  There is still a lot of work ongoing work being carried out to try to determine this.

Clip
As we noted in Police and Military Dogs, the work of cadaver dogs is relatively infrequently questioned in court because a cadaver is found and identified by DNA, dental comparison, or other procedures. 

The work of the dog becomes historical to the case, and does not receive more than a brief mention in a judicial opinion. 

Nevertheless, this study may have an impact on future prosecutions where a body has not been found and the dog’s alert is taken as proof that the suspected decedent was present at a location, or in cases where the body has been found and the prosecution’s problem is to establish that it was in the defendant’s car or house or at some other specific location (consider the recent Casey Anthony prosecution involving a car trunk). 

If the defense can make a plausible argument that a dead pig or other animal might have been at the location, and establish that the dog’s training aids included swine remains, a court may have to consider the implications of this research.
http://doglawreporter.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/training-cadaver-dogs-on-pig-remains.html