UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Brietta on October 11, 2022, 03:44:34 PM
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Prime suspect in disappearance of Madeleine McCann charged with several sexual offences
Christian Brueckner is accused of committing several sexual offences in Portugal on victims aged from 10 to 80, according to German prosecutors
ByKelly-Ann MillsNews Reporter
14:40, 11 Oct 2022UPDATED15:32, 11 Oct 2022
The prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007 has been charged in Germany with several sexual offences.
Christian Brueckner allegedly committed the offences in Portugal between 2000 and 2017, German prosecutors said.
According to a statement, among the charges brought against Brueckner is the rape of a woman in her 70-80s in a holiday apartment some time between December 2000 and April 2006.
He reportedly filmed the attack with a camera he brought with him, prosecutors allege.
Brueckner is also accused of raping a 20-year-old Irish woman in Praia da Rocha after gaining access to her apartment via a balcony in June 2004.
The woman was sleeping when he threatened her with a knife and raped, before he tied her to a table and fled, prosecutors say.
Brueckner is also accused of forcing a 10-year-old German girl to perform a sex act on him on a beach in Portugal in 2007, before fleeing the scene.
A further alleged assault, relating to an 11-year-old Portuguese girl in a playground, was only stopped when she bravely ran back to her father for help.
"The accused is the same person against whom charges were brought in connection with the disappearance of the then 3-year-old British girl Madeleine Beth McCann," the Braunschweig prosecutor's office said in a statement.
"Specifically, the accused is charged with three offences of aggravated rape and two offences of sexual abuse of children," the prosecutor's office added.
The office did not say if the charges related to the McCann case.
Investigators believe the 45-year-old killed Madeleine, then three, after abducting her from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3 2007.
Brueckner, who has reportedly denied any involvement in the case, was identified as a suspect in the McCann case by Portuguese officials in June 2020.
The suspect is currently serving a 7-year prison sentence for rape, which he also committed in Portugal in 2005.
He was convicted after DNA found on a hair in her bed was matched to him. He and his lawyer Friedrich Fulscher have denied his involvement and insisted he was convicted after a bungled investigation.
The investigation into Madeleine's disappearance is continuing irrespective of the charges brought, the prosecutor's office said.
In September, Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry lost their 13-year legal battle over an ex-Portuguese detective's allegations.
Former Policia Judiciaria officer Amaral made his allegations in 2009 memoir The Truth Of The Lie.
Madeleine went missing from a resort in the village of Praia da Luz, Portugal, sparking a worldwide hunt for her whereabouts, but she has never been found.
Only three at the time of her mysterious disappearance in 2007, Madeleine would now be 19.
Brueckner has reportedly denied any involvement in the British toddler's disappearance since being identified as a suspect by Portuguese officials in June 2020.
Earlier this year documentary, Madeleine McCann: The Case Against Christian B, was aired as viewers saw expert investigator Mark Williams-Thomas look into the evidence against the German paedophile.
The Brit ex-cop, 52, Williams-Thomas stated in the filming that he does not believe Brueckner is responsible for the Maddie mystery after becoming the first reporter to speak to him following the allegations.
He said: "In Portugal after 15 years any serious crime including murder can't be prosecuted... Christian Brueckner was made an arguido to get around this. I believe he is innocent.
"Somebody's previous offending does not make them responsible. That is not how the criminal justice system should work."
Mr Williams-Thomas added: "I am no fan of Christian Brueckner. He has committed some horrific offences.
"But that doesn't make him the killer of Madeleine McCann unless there is the evidence to support that. And there isn't.
"They cannot place him outside Madeleine's apartment on the day of the disappearance and furthermore he has a credible alibi which places him away from there. And there is evidence of non-changing behaviour."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-prime-suspect-disappearance-madeleine-28210382?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_campaign=breaking_daily_newsletter2&utm_medium=email
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I see Mark Williams Thomas is still at it, trying to cash in.
But at least Brueckner has been charged with several somethings. And also this Thread should be interesting for a change.
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HCW, true to his word. Let”s hope justice is done for these victims at least.
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EXCLUSIVE: German Madeleine McCann suspect to be accused of a string of rapes and two child offence charges THIS WEEK
11 Oct, 2022 @ 11:45
MADELEINE McCann suspect Christian Brueckner will this week be charged with five more serious sex crimes.
The German rapist, 45, could be accused as early as today with three further rapes and two child molestation offences.
Brueckner – who was named as an official suspect (arguido) in the Maddie case in Portugal in April – will face trial early next year.
“There are five different crimes in total and an official announcement will be made this week,” a German police source told the Olive Press today.
“The trial will be in the Spring or early summer.”
Christian Brueckner And Maddie
Christian Brueckner And Madeliene McCann
The charges have taken longer than prosecutors hoped, due to a combination of Brueckner’s legal team as well as European bureaucracy.
The Olive Press revealed in May, that in order to accuse him again prosecutors had to officially extradite him from Italy, where he was last arrested as a free man.
Further charges, in particular over missing Madeleine, are expected shortly.
The paedophile had been living in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz, where the British three-year-old vanished in May 2007.
He knew the resort extremely well having lived there for nearly a decade and had even done odd jobs in the Ocean Club resort, where the McCanns were staying.
“We hope to charge him over Madeleine before the end of the year,” revealed the source from Germany’s crack BKA force, which has been investigating Brueckner’s link to the missing toddler since 2016.
“We have pretty much everything we need in that case, plenty of evidence and numerous witnesses.”
The German police are so sure of his guilt they had made the unprecedented step of announcing they had him as an official suspect in a press conference in June 2020.
As well as being picked up for various crimes around Praia da Luz, Brueckner is currently serving a seven-year prison sentence for the vicious rape of an American pensioner there in 2005.
Madeleine Mccann Suspect Christian Brueckner To Be Charged With Rape
Hazel Behan and Christian Brueckner. Photo: RTE screenshot/police handouts
Diana Menkes, 72, had been tied up, beaten and filmed by the sex offender just half a mile from the McCanns holiday apartment.
Two attempts by his lawyers to overturn the conviction have been quashed.
This week, he will be accused of three more rapes in the area, the most infamous involving an Irish youngster, Hazel Behan, 39, in 2004.
The Portimao resort worker, from Dublin, was just 20 when she had also been tied up, beaten and tortured during a four-hour filmed ordeal.
Maddie 1
The house where Brueckner lived on the Algarve. Photo: Olive Press
Further charges will be brought for two more sadistic rapes, both which allegedly took place within his rented home, just outside Praia da Luz.
One involved a teenager and the second an elderly lady, believed to be in her 60s at the time. Both are understood to have been filmed.
Finally, Brueckner will also be charged with molesting a child on the nearby beach of Salema, just three weeks before Maddie went missing.
The German child, 10, had been on holiday with her family when she was grabbed and groped by a naked German, who fitted the description of Brueckner, as she played by rocks with her sibling.
Maddie 3
The playpark in Messines where Brueckner is alleged to have exposed himself to four children. Photo: Olive Press
While the parents had a perfect view of the attacker and made a detailed police report, the Portuguese police failed to investigate.
A final charge will be brought over the alleged exposure to four children in a play park in Messines, also on the Algarve in 2017.
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Charged with murdering Maddie before the end of the year!!
So says a source via the Olive Press.
I see no reason to doubt this.
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I see Mark Williams Thomas is still at it, trying to cash in.
But at least Brueckner has been charged with several somethings. And also this Thread should be interesting for a change.
I think that’s just the Mirror rehashing what he said earlier in the year.
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“Brueckner's lawyer told MailOnline charges had come as a 'complete surprise' “
errr….right.
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I think that’s just the Mirror rehashing what he said earlier in the year.
Did Mark Williams Thomas ever get around to explaining about Brueckner's Alibi?
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Did Mark Williams Thomas ever get around to explaining about Brueckner's Alibi?
What? You mean explaining that he doesn't actually need one?
Wolters can't prove Maddie was abducted, so no alibi needed really.
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Did Mark Williams Thomas ever get around to explaining about Brueckner's Alibi?
he said that he had one and then proved that he hadn’t. Remarkable!
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Charged with murdering Maddie before the end of the year!!
So says a source via the Olive Press.
I see no reason to doubt this.
At least the Olive Press broke the news a couple of hours before any other printed media.
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I notice that these charges have been laid without police speaking to Brueckner .
Presumably Brueckner has no need to speak until the actual trials.
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“Brueckner's lawyer told MailOnline charges had come as a 'complete surprise' “
errr….right.
Might be due to differences in the German legal system. From what I understand defence teams can remain passive in the pre trial phases as they would rather wait until the full prosecution case is made clear, which should be when the indictment to charge is made, then the full prosecution files are disclosed.
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I notice that these charges have been laid without police speaking to Brueckner .
Presumably Brueckner has no need to speak until the actual trials.
Yes, just came here to make a similar point.
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Might be due to differences in the German legal system. From what I understand defence teams can remain passive in the pre trial phases as they would rather wait until the full prosecution case is made clear, which should be when the indictment to charge is made, then the full prosecution files are disclosed.
My point was more that HCW has been saying for weeks (if not months) that they are working towards charging CB in the near future so this shouldn’t have come as a complete surprise- to anyone.
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My point was more that HCW has been saying for weeks (if not months) that they are working towards charging CB in the near future so this shouldn’t have come as a complete surprise- to anyone.
I see but maybe he may still be surprised on those specific charges, there seem to be many cold cases that Bruckner was being looked into as a potential suspect.
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My understanding of German prosecutions is that charges are rarely pressed unless there is a very strong likelihood of a conviction. This would seem to suggest that the evidence is compelling. My understanding (possibly mistaken) also is that the German prosecutor has been working on these cases for even longer than the McCann case which shows how long it can take to build a strong enough case for charges to be brought.
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My understanding of German prosecutions is that charges are rarely pressed unless there is a very strong likelihood of a conviction. This would seem to suggest that the evidence is compelling. My understanding (possibly mistaken) also is that the German prosecutor has been working on these cases for even longer than the McCann case which shows how long it can take to build a strong enough case for charges to be brought.
I think there has to be a likelihood of conviction, I'm not sure how strong that has to be or exactly how it's defined. Even so it doesn't mean Brueckner's lawyer would know the findings of the investigation until the charging stage.
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This development represents the death knell for him ever being charged with MM's disappearance.
It's the booby prize; a face-saver. The wooden spoon.
Bloody good try though, I'll give them that.
...right, who's next? Murat again?
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This development represents the death knell for him ever being charged with MM's disappearance.
It's the booby prize; a face-saver. The wooden spoon.
Bloody good try though, I'll give them that.
...right, who's next? Murat again?
Charges for MM will follow ICBB to explain why
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It makes sense to deal with the lesser charges first and clock up some jail time.
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Charges for MM will follow ICBB to explain why
Wolters will explain everything.
Just have faith.
Not much longer now.
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Charges for MM will follow ICBB to explain why
Will he be as successful as the parents were with the ECHR?
Another of your successful predictions.
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On hearing that Brueckner was charged with her rape, Hazel Behan regretted that the Portuguese police hadn't done more to pursue her case at the time.
She had no doubt then that her assailant was German, with piercing blue eyes and a voice she would have recognised immediately had she heard it again.
When she heard about Diana Menkes rape, she recognised the MO and was "sick to the core" with the certainty Brueckner was her attacker too.
She had never expected any chance of justice and states she is only getting the opportunity of it 18 years after her rape "thanks to all of the campaigning of Madeleine’s amazing parents".
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/exclusive-irish-rape-victim-reveals-delight-at-finally-seeing-maddie-suspect-christian-brueckner-in-court-after-18-long-years/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss
There is evidence and there are witnesses to some of Brueckner's other alleged crimes.
I wonder how long it will be before Amaral pops into the TV studios to announce they are setting Brueckner up as a patsy and while he is at it maybe he will enlighten us to why they would do that?
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On hearing that Brueckner was charged with her rape, Hazel Behan regretted that the Portuguese police hadn't done more to pursue her case at the time.
She had no doubt then that her assailant was German, with piercing blue eyes and a voice she would have recognised immediately had she heard it again.
When she heard about Diana Menkes rape, she recognised the MO and was "sick to the core" with the certainty Brueckner was her attacker too.
She had never expected any chance of justice and states she is only getting the opportunity of it 18 years after her rape "thanks to all of the campaigning of Madeleine’s amazing parents".
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/exclusive-irish-rape-victim-reveals-delight-at-finally-seeing-maddie-suspect-christian-brueckner-in-court-after-18-long-years/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss
There is evidence and there are witnesses to some of Brueckner's other alleged crimes.
I wonder how long it will be before Amaral pops into the TV studios to announce they are setting Brueckner up as a patsy and while he is at it maybe he will enlighten us to why they would do that?
Oh dear, poor Hazel Behan is really going to incur the wrath of the trolls now for her positive comment about the McCanns.
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Hazel Behan's interview with Ryan Tubridy worth listening to again...
https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html (https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html)
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Yes it’s the Sun but the article includes a map showing where these offences occurred and their proximity to PdL
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20075325/madeleine-mccann-suspect-molested-girl-beach-portugal/
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Hazel Behan's interview with Ryan Tubridy worth listening to again...
https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html (https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html)
“I don’t think it was taken as seriously as it should have been. I think they wanted to protect the holiday industry, they didn't want it to be known that this happened in a holiday resort.”
“Unfortunately I find the Portuguese system very corrupt. The ones that I met basically came to me saying that I was a holiday rep, implying it comes with the territory.”
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Oh dear, poor Hazel Behan is really going to incur the wrath of the trolls now for her positive comment about the McCanns.
Any chance Hazel Behan has of getting justice is, as she has recognised, is entirely due to the McCann determination to find out what happened to Madeleine. So of course her copybook is blotted in the quarter which seems to be eager for the release of Brueckner to allow him free rein to walk yet again among children from one end of Europe to the other.
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Any chance Hazel Behan has of getting justice is, as she has recognised, is entirely due to the McCann determination to find out what happened to Madeleine. So of course her copybook is blotted in the quarter which seems to be eager for the release of Brueckner to allow him free rein to walk yet again among children from one end of Europe to the other.
So Grange has resulted in charges for 5 serious offences..
And probably one more to come
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Hazel Behan's interview with Ryan Tubridy worth listening to again...
https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html (https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/tubridy-floored-by-bravery-of-woman-sharing-her-harrowing-rape-ordeal-live-on-air-30921788.html)
Hazel's advice "“Just be aware,” Hazel advised female listeners. “If you feel for one second that something is not right, go with your gut. I knew there was something strange going on with my room, but I could never have imagined it was that.” made me think of the passing unease the McCanns felt.
They didn't know about sexual predators entering holiday villas and targeting British children. Just as Hazel could have had no conception a rapist would climb into her hotel room to assault her.
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So Grange has resulted in charges for 5 serious offences..
And probably one more to come
My opinion is these charges are the tip of the iceberg. Brueckner is one prolific sexual offender whose peripatetic lifestyle made it easy for him to offend and stay one step ahead of the police. Particularly true in Portugal where witness accounts of serious crime reveal how little effort was put into investigating.
The classic case illustrating that negligence for me was the ruling that Australian Jacinta Reese had committed suicide by bashing her head in using several axe blows while receiving defence wounds in the process.
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If these charges result in a prosecution all the criticism of the cost of. Grange will prove to be unfounded
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If these charges result in a prosecution all the criticism of the cost of. Grange will prove to be unfounded
I don't think there was ever any justification in objecting to following evidence in what was an active case. The time to stop investigation is only when there is no more intelligence or evidence to follow and the investigation has hit an impasse.
That never happened in Madeleine's case. The evidence is there, always was there and is still being developed.
The eagerness to write this little girl off has always astounded me. There can be no doubt that OG worked and worked well.
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At the risk of being labelled a 'troll' who doesn't believe rape victims, isn't counting all these charges as evidence of Bruckner's guilt rather jumping the gun a bit? Loads of countries have low conviction rates for rape and we don't know what all the evidence for or against Brueckner is.
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At the risk of being labelled a 'troll' who doesn't believe rape victims, isn't counting all these charges as evidence of Bruckner's guilt rather jumping the gun a bit? Loads of countries have low conviction rates for rape and we don't know what all the evidence for or against Brueckner is.
Agreed, but being found not guilt of a crime doesn't mean you didn't actually do it.
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Has HCW issued his press statement yet? Was supposed to have happened at 2pm today I thought?
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Agreed, but being found not guilt of a crime doesn't mean you didn't actually do it.
I agree on that too but there's more than one possibility isn't there. He's either done the crime and they prove it and he gets sentenced, or he didn't do the crime and it's not proven, or he did the crime but it's still not proven for whatever reason. Rapes and assaults are hard to prove as it's usually just those two people present and maybe not much physical evidence. There is also the possibility that he did some crimes but not all of them, then you get further away from that profile of a really prolific individual with a wide range of victims.
His lawyer seems to think the charges won't be admitted through to court. Of course, he could be completely biased.
'The suspect's defense attorney, Friedrich Fülscher, told the German Press Agency that the allegations had been known for a long time and that nothing had changed in the situation. "I think the evidence is weak in all cases," he said. The court must first decide whether to admit the indictment.'
https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc (https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
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I agree on that too but there's more than one possibility isn't there. He's either done the crime and they prove it and he gets sentenced, or he didn't do the crime and it's not proven, or he did the crime but it's still not proven for whatever reason. Rapes and assaults are hard to prove as it's usually just those two people present and maybe not much physical evidence. There is also the possibility that he did some crimes but not all of them, then you get further away from that profile of a really prolific individual with a wide range of victims.
His lawyer seems to think the charges won't be admitted through to court. Of course, he could be completely biased.
'The suspect's defense attorney, Friedrich Fülscher, told the German Press Agency that the allegations had been known for a long time and that nothing had changed in the situation. "I think the evidence is weak in all cases," he said. The court must first decide whether to admit the indictment.'
https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc (https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
Lawyers are paid to be completely biased in favour of their clients so no surprises there. And I think it’s already been proven beyond doubt (even without these latest charges) that CB is a serial offender with victims spanning from young child to old woman.
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I agree on that too but there's more than one possibility isn't there. He's either done the crime and they prove it and he gets sentenced, or he didn't do the crime and it's not proven, or he did the crime but it's still not proven for whatever reason. Rapes and assaults are hard to prove as it's usually just those two people present and maybe not much physical evidence. There is also the possibility that he did some crimes but not all of them, then you get further away from that profile of a really prolific individual with a wide range of victims.
His lawyer seems to think the charges won't be admitted through to court. Of course, he could be completely biased.
'The suspect's defense attorney, Friedrich Fülscher, told the German Press Agency that the allegations had been known for a long time and that nothing had changed in the situation. "I think the evidence is weak in all cases," he said. The court must first decide whether to admit the indictment.'
https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc (https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/panorama/welt/fall-maddie-staatsanwaltschaft-erhebt-anklage-gegen-maddie-verdaechtigen_id_163385541.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
I suppose it will all come down to the opinion of the examining judge as to whether the evidence is strong enough to warrant an actual trial.
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Lawyers are paid to be completely biased in favour of their clients so no surprises there. And I think it’s already been proven beyond doubt (even without these latest charges) that CB is a serial offender with victims spanning from young child to old woman.
The crimes he is convicted of though ( exposure to children in 1994 and rape of the 70 year old) , don't seem that similar to the McCann case as he never took someone away from a location. He seems happy to stay in a location, house, beach etc and commit the crime, even at risk of being discovered. He could have escalated but again, why take the child when he had never done that before? If it's because he killed her, then maybe the dogs were right and then that leads to questions about the reported timeline. If he took her away and killed her, it just seems like a leap away from his previous crimes to me.
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The crimes he is convicted of though ( exposure to children in 1994 and rape of the 70 year old) , don't seem that similar to the McCann case as he never took someone away from a location. He seems happy to stay in a location, house, beach etc and commit the crime, even at risk of being discovered. He could have escalated but again, why take the child when he had never done that before? If it's because he killed her, then maybe the dogs were right and then that leads to questions about the reported timeline. If he took her away and killed her, it just seems like a leap away from his previous crimes to me.
I am content to wait for the evidence to be presented regarding the current case load Brueckner faces. While awaiting the charges with which we are told he will be indicted in relation to whatever he will be accused of doing to Madeleine.
We have had over fifteen years of sceptic speculation which has led exactly nowhere. Time now to move over and allow the evidence of which we are told there is plenty, to do the talking.
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The crimes he is convicted of though ( exposure to children in 1994 and rape of the 70 year old) , don't seem that similar to the McCann case as he never took someone away from a location. He seems happy to stay in a location, house, beach etc and commit the crime, even at risk of being discovered. He could have escalated but again, why take the child when he had never done that before? If it's because he killed her, then maybe the dogs were right and then that leads to questions about the reported timeline. If he took her away and killed her, it just seems like a leap away from his previous crimes to me.
There is no way he killed her in the apartment within the available time frame to make the dog alerts viable so I think it’s safe to discount that idea. We don’t know for certain that he had never committed crimes against people he removed from a location only that he has not so far been charged with any crimes of abduction. Let’s not forget the McCanns are frequently suspected of doing all sorts of heinous crimes they presumably never would have committed prior to PdL so IMO it’s a bogus argument to say any given crime committed must have a precedent.
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Whatever else happens Germany have exposed a serial paedophile and rapist. Portugal could have done this but they couldn't be bothered.
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I am curious, the papers report that the hazel behan case is included. Last we heard was them checking for a scar. I wonder if this has been done or not? If fulscher has made a statement maybe he would have included that.
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Whatever else happens Germany have exposed a serial paedophile and rapist. Portugal could have done this but they couldn't be bothered.
Very true. They couldn’t be arsed to properly investigate these crimes and have been shamed by German and British determination to get justice for these victims.
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I am content to wait for the evidence to be presented regarding the current case load Brueckner faces. While awaiting the charges with which we are told he will be indicted in relation to whatever he will be accused of doing to Madeleine.
We have had over fifteen years of sceptic speculation which has led exactly nowhere. Time now to move over and allow the evidence of which we are told there is plenty, to do the talking.
Everyone is speculating here as far as I can see because none of us knows what the evidence is. Members on here have guessed at what the evidence might be. Personally, I don't see any need to 'move over' if what you mean by that is to stop discussing it.
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There is no way he killed her in the apartment within the available time frame to make the dog alerts viable so I think it’s safe to discount that idea. We don’t know for certain that he had never committed crimes against people he removed from a location only that he has not so far been charged with any crimes of abduction. Let’s not forget the McCanns are frequently suspected of doing all sorts of heinous crimes they presumably never would have committed prior to PdL so IMO it’s a bogus argument to say any given crime committed must have a precedent.
I agree with your first point, we don't know what other crimes he may have committed but I'm not saying he has to have a similar preceding crime to have been an abductor, just that the pattern seems to be so different in the McCann case, so how at all likely is it? Of course any evidence putting him actually at the scene would add to the possibility that it is what he did. At the moment there doesn't seem to be any evidence that puts him in 5a.
You could also use your logic to say we don't know if the McCanns or associates ever committed any crimes before they were suspected.
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I agree with your first point, we don't know what other crimes he may have committed but I'm not saying he has to have a similar preceding crime to have been an abductor, just that the pattern seems to be so different in the McCann case, so how at all likely is it? Of course any evidence putting him actually at the scene would add to the possibility that it is what he did. At the moment there doesn't seem to be any evidence that puts him in 5a.
You could also use your logic to say we don't know if the McCanns or associates ever committed any crimes before they were suspected.
Of course you could. However they haven’t been charged with any crimes at all and this thread is about Bruckner so…
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Of course you could. However they haven’t been charged with any crimes at all and this thread is about Bruckner so…
You brought up the McCanns in response to my replies on evidence on Brueckner, saying don't forget them being accused of all kinds of crimes. I wouldn't have mentioned them otherwise.
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Topic. Please.
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I am content to wait for the evidence to be presented regarding the current case load Brueckner faces. While awaiting the charges with which we are told he will be indicted in relation to whatever he will be accused of doing to Madeleine.
We have had over fifteen years of sceptic speculation which has led exactly nowhere. Time now to move over and allow the evidence of which we are told there is plenty, to do the talking.
If you're waiting for Brueckner to be charged with anything relating to Maddie then you're going to be waiting a long time.
For the foreseeable future as it happens.
Not sure if I've mentioned that before.
Wolters has, but it hasn't quite sunk in has it.
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You brought up the McCanns in response to my replies on evidence on Brueckner, saying don't forget them being accused of all kinds of crimes. I wouldn't have mentioned them otherwise.
Amaral seems to think Brückner is the perfect patsy. Why do you think he considers him perfect, if not because he thinks he has the profile of someone who could abduct, rape and murder a child?
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This development represents the death knell for him ever being charged with MM's disappearance.
It's the booby prize; a face-saver. The wooden spoon.
Bloody good try though, I'll give them that.
...right, who's next? Murat again?
No. I think you must have been away.
McCann believers have convinced themselves Brueckner is being charged with crimes against Maddie, following the Behan rape trial. Wolters himself hasn't suggested any such thing mind.
In fact, he can't see Brueckner being charged anytime in the foreseeable future, was his most recent admission. But for reasons known only to believers, they're still pretending it isn't so.
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Everyone is speculating here as far as I can see because none of us knows what the evidence is. Members on here have guessed at what the evidence might be. Personally, I don't see any need to 'move over' if what you mean by that is to stop discussing it.
We know there is enough to charge. Several posters have been dismissive and insulting towards Wolters but now they have to accept his credibility.. And he's 100 % sure CB murdered Maddie
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We know there is enough to charge. Several posters have been dismissive and insulting towards Wolters but now they have to accept his credibility.. And he's 100 % sure CB murdered Maddie
No, Wolters 'claims' there is enough to charge, re Maddie.
Notice the difference?
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Amaral seems to think Brückner is the perfect patsy. Why do you think he considers him perfect, if not because he thinks he has the profile of someone who could abduct, rape and murder a child?
Without getting into detail, I think any sexual deviant who was in the vague area could be made a patsy if that's what someone was determined to do, I doubt specific profiling would come into it much.... but I'm going to stick to the topic of this thread, as Brietta requested not long ago.
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We know there is enough to charge. Several posters have been dismissive and insulting towards Wolters but now they have to accept his credibility.. And he's 100 % sure CB murdered Maddie
Also, it’s clear the German police charge no-one unless they think they'll get a conviction.
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Without getting into detail, I think any sexual deviant who was in the vague area could be made a patsy if that's what someone was determined to do, I doubt specific profiling would come into it much.... but I'm going to stick to the topic of this thread, as Brietta requested not long ago.
There’s patsys and then there’s perfect patsys. Is discussing CB’s suitability as a suspect in this case off topic? OK, what else can we talk about?
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There’s patsys and then there’s perfect patsys. Is discussing CB’s suitability as a suspect in this case off topic? OK, what else can we talk about?
Discussing Brueckner as a Patsy is fine by me.
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Also, it’s clear the German police charge no-one unless they think they'll get a conviction.
I've seen that repeated often enough but to what degree? There must be a certain percentage of cases that don't result in conviction. I would think it's similar to the CPS in the UK and we all know that there are cases where the charges don't stick. According to Wikipedia, only 8% of rape trials end in a conviction in Germany.
I found this explanation of indictment;
'An indictment is brought if, after a criminal investigation, a public prosecutor comes to the conclusion that the probability of a conviction is higher than the probability of an acquittal (so-called sufficient grounds for suspicion).'
https://criminal-law-germany.lawyer/criminal-indictment/ (https://criminal-law-germany.lawyer/criminal-indictment/)
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There’s patsys and then there’s perfect patsys. Is discussing CB’s suitability as a suspect in this case off topic? OK, what else can we talk about?
Amaral believing Brueckner is a patsy isn't anything to do with these current charges is it? . I thought the current charges against Brueckner is the topic of this thread.
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Also, it’s clear the German police charge no-one unless they think they'll get a conviction.
With that in mind then, added to the fact that Wolters can't see Brueckner being charged anytime in the foreseeable future, what does this tell us about the strength of his concrete evidence?
When you come up with the answer then let the rest of the forum know, because they're still struggling with that conundrum.
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Amaral believing Brueckner is a patsy isn't anything to do with these current charges is it? . I thought the current charges against Brueckner is the topic of this thread.
you brought up doubts about his suitability as a suspect, I pointed out that Amaral figured he was an eminently suitable suspect, that was all.
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you brought up doubts about his suitability as a suspect, I pointed out that Amaral figured he was an eminently suitable suspect, that was all.
From what I've read Amaral is saying he's a crap patsy in his opinion who's being shoe-horned into various crimes. That's not the same as him being a useful patsy to whoever may want him to be one, who would have their own ideas as to what mould he needs to fit.
Having said all that, I don't believe German police would be involved in 'fitting him up' for the McCann case. I can see absolutely no point in them doing such a thing.
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Everyone is speculating here as far as I can see because none of us knows what the evidence is. Members on here have guessed at what the evidence might be. Personally, I don't see any need to 'move over' if what you mean by that is to stop discussing it.
You are speculating on the content of my post and may I inform you that your speculation is a misinterpretation in which you have got my meaning wrong. Which illustrates how valueless speculation actually is.
Nor is there any need for speculation regarding the thread on which we are currently posting. It is a very easy one.
"Brueckner charged with sexual offences in cases unrelated to Madeleine".
We know the five offences with which he has been charged and we know the circumstances surrounding each case; some of it in quite graphic detail although the two added rapes are a fairly recent introduction and may have come as a surprise to some.
The charges involve offences committed between 2000 and 2017. That is a seventeen year binge of offences for which there is enough evidence to allow indictment. My speculation is that these are the ones that are known about, but how many are known about but there is no evidence to support charges being laid and how many similar crimes have been committed and are not known about?
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I've seen that repeated often enough but to what degree? There must be a certain percentage of cases that don't result in conviction. I would think it's similar to the CPS in the UK and we all know that there are cases where the charges don't stick. According to Wikipedia, only 8% of rape trials end in a conviction in Germany.
I found this explanation of indictment;
'An indictment is brought if, after a criminal investigation, a public prosecutor comes to the conclusion that the probability of a conviction is higher than the probability of an acquittal (so-called sufficient grounds for suspicion).'
https://criminal-law-germany.lawyer/criminal-indictment/ (https://criminal-law-germany.lawyer/criminal-indictment/)
We shall just have to wait and see then, won't we.
The important thing is that there is sufficient evidence to justify charges being brought against Brueckner. How that is judged and the outcome of that judgement is what is known as 'justice being served' and there are no certainties as to what the outcome may be in a fair society.
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Amaral believing Brueckner is a patsy isn't anything to do with these current charges is it? . I thought the current charges against Brueckner is the topic of this thread.
I will be amazed if at some stage in the proceedings the defence doesn't raise the accusation that he is a patsy. They are going to have find something to use.
Depends whether or not Brueckner's alibi turns up trumps.
By the way, if you have concerns regarding off topic posts, or any other infringements, do please report them.
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Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
12.10.2022
BRAUNSCHWEIG. Probably only in 2023, the 45-Year-old could come to court. He is accused of aggravated rape in three cases and two cases of abuse.
The German, who is also suspected in the case of the missing girl Maddie, will no longer have to face a trial this year on other allegations of sexual offences. Such proceedings will not begin before 2023, the Braunschweig Regional Court announced on Wednesday.
The competent criminal chamber will now examine in a so-called interim procedure whether the indictment will be admitted and the main proceedings will be opened, it said.
On Tuesday, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office had filed charges against the 45-year-old German. He is accused of three counts of aggravated rape and two counts of child sexual abuse. He is said to have committed the acts between the end of December 2000 and June 2017 in Portugal.
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article236654441/Moeglicher-Prozess-gegen-Maddie-Verdaechtigen-startet-nicht-vor-2023.html
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From what I've read Amaral is saying he's a crap patsy in his opinion who's being shoe-horned into various crimes. That's not the same as him being a useful patsy to whoever may want him to be one, who would have their own ideas as to what mould he needs to fit.
Having said all that, I don't believe German police would be involved in 'fitting him up' for the McCann case. I can see absolutely no point in them doing such a thing.
No, Amaral said he was the almost perfect patsy, the only thing preventing him from being perfect is that he isn’t dead
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html
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Madeleine McCann case now sole focus of probe team - but quick breakthrough 'unlikely'
German investigators have dismissed reports that convicted paedophile Christian Brueckner could be charged by Christmas over Madeleine McCann's 2007 disappearance
ByMartin FrickerNews Reporter
18:19, 12 Oct 2022
Investigators into the Madeleine McCann disappearance are now focusing solely on her case but a breakthrough this year is “unlikely”, German prosecutors say.
They have dismissed reports that convicted paedophile Christian Brueckner could be charged by Christmas over her 2007 disappearance in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Brueckner, 45, was charged on Tuesday with five sex crimes allegedly carried out in Portugal from 2000 to 2017.
He is currently serving a seven-year prison term for rape and is not expected to stand trial on the new charges until next summer.
German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said it was “unlikely” he will be charged over Madeleine’s disappearance ahead of the trial.
The Braunschweig-based official told the Mirror: “Anything is possible, but it is unlikely, at least in terms of time.”
But he revealed investigators are now working “solely” on the Madeleine probe after completing their work on the other cases. Parents Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leics, remain hopeful that their daughter is still alive.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-case-now-sole-28223780
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No way.
I had it on good authority via Jon Clarke, from a source in the BKA no less, that charges were due before Christmas. Well this is just disappointing. I'm beginning to lose faith in The Olive Press.
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Seventeen years of a crimewave in Portugal and no one noticed? Who was doing this is by the by at the moment. Somebody was, while no one thought it was important enough to investigate. What a disgrace.
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Seventeen years of a crimewave in Portugal and no one noticed? Who was doing this is by the by at the moment. Somebody was, while no one thought it was important enough to investigate. What a disgrace.
5 crimes in 17 years doesn't sound like much of a wave to me.
More like a trickle really.
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"no one thought it was important enough to investigate."
Well that isn't true.
Take the rape of the granny, for starters.
How was Brueckner's hair ever recovered from the scene if there was no investigation?
The fact is the PJ did investigate, they recovered a hair, but since Brueckner's DNA wasn't on file, & he took measures to conceal his identity, why should the PJ have suspected Brueckner in particular, at that time?
No good reason, is there.
It wasn't until Busching & the other crook told German cops about the rape video that any link to that particular crime could be established. No way the PJ could have known about that in advance really is there.
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Then we have the rape of Hazel Behan.
Again, CB leaves scant or no evidence at the scene, Behan said he was meticulous about leaving no trace & used protection.
So, the only evidence the PJ had at that time, was that a 6' man in a mask & stockings filmed a rape of a holiday rep.
It wasn't until after Brueckner had been dobbed in by his mates for a similar crime, that anything linking he, specifically, to that crime could be established.
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Seventeen years of a crimewave in Portugal and no one noticed? Who was doing this is by the by at the moment. Somebody was, while no one thought it was important enough to investigate. What a disgrace.
Perhaps Portugal has a policy of not bothering to properly investigate crimes that involve foreign nationals, and are happy to leave it to other countries' police forces to solve.
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Perhaps Portugal has a policy of not bothering to properly investigate crimes that involve foreign nationals, and are happy to leave it to other countries' police forces to solve.
Meanwhile they stitch up their own.
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Perhaps Portugal has a policy of not bothering to properly investigate crimes that involve foreign nationals, and are happy to leave it to other countries' police forces to solve.
Or, perhaps the evidence indicating Brueckner's involvement didn't actually materialise until his mates grassed him up.
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Meanwhile they stitch up their own.
Oh well, don't visit Portugal then aye.
Why not just sit at home moaning incessantly about the place instead.
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This is all rather sad. I spent several really nice holidays in Portugal during the 70s and it is such a beautiful country.
One long time friend owns a lovely house in Val du Lobo and another owns a rental villa just outside Praia da Luz.
Brueckner has ruined my memories with the offences he has been found guilty of. I would never go there again.
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This is all rather sad. I spent several really nice holidays in Portugal during the 70s and it is such a beautiful country.
One long time friend owns a lovely house in Val du Lobo and another owns a rental villa just outside Praia da Luz.
Brueckner has ruined my memories with the offences he has been found guilty of. I would never go there again.
How has him raping a couple of women ruined your memories? Brueckner wasn't on holidays with you was he? I mean, I could probably understand that if you'd spent a week relaxing by the pool & eating tapas with him, then later found out he'd been raping women in the hotel of an evening. That might ruin your holiday memories a bit, but other than that I can't see how really. Anyway, he's going to be in solitary for about the next 15 years or more now, so Portugal is safe again he'll just have to rape himself from now on.
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This is all rather sad. I spent several really nice holidays in Portugal during the 70s and it is such a beautiful country.
One long time friend owns a lovely house in Val du Lobo and another owns a rental villa just outside Praia da Luz.
Brueckner has ruined my memories with the offences he has been found guilty of. I would never go there again.
This is precisely why IMO the PJ weren’t bothered with trying to investigate these crimes with any degree of rigour. It would have shone a light on the seedier aspects of the Portuguese “paradise” and potentially turned off a lot of tourists.
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No, Amaral said he was the almost perfect patsy, the only thing preventing him from being perfect is that he isn’t dead
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html
His actual words were ''He's an almost perfect suspect. All that's lacking for him to become the perfect suspect is that he's dead.''
I don't think you can say for sure why Amaral thinks that.
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You are speculating on the content of my post and may I inform you that your speculation is a misinterpretation in which you have got my meaning wrong. Which illustrates how valueless speculation actually is.
Nor is there any need for speculation regarding the thread on which we are currently posting. It is a very easy one.
"Brueckner charged with sexual offences in cases unrelated to Madeleine".
We know the five offences with which he has been charged and we know the circumstances surrounding each case; some of it in quite graphic detail although the two added rapes are a fairly recent introduction and may have come as a surprise to some.
The charges involve offences committed between 2000 and 2017. That is a seventeen year binge of offences for which there is enough evidence to allow indictment. My speculation is that these are the ones that are known about, but how many are known about but there is no evidence to support charges being laid and how many similar crimes have been committed and are not known about?
Sorry for my misinterpretation of 'move over'. I'm genuinely not sure what else you can have meant in the context.
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Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
12.10.2022
BRAUNSCHWEIG. Probably only in 2023, the 45-Year-old could come to court. He is accused of aggravated rape in three cases and two cases of abuse.
The German, who is also suspected in the case of the missing girl Maddie, will no longer have to face a trial this year on other allegations of sexual offences. Such proceedings will not begin before 2023, the Braunschweig Regional Court announced on Wednesday.
The competent criminal chamber will now examine in a so-called interim procedure whether the indictment will be admitted and the main proceedings will be opened, it said.
On Tuesday, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office had filed charges against the 45-year-old German. He is accused of three counts of aggravated rape and two counts of child sexual abuse. He is said to have committed the acts between the end of December 2000 and June 2017 in Portugal.
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article236654441/Moeglicher-Prozess-gegen-Maddie-Verdaechtigen-startet-nicht-vor-2023.html
Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
So maybe possible or maybe not.
Without keep repeating this ..it is absolutely obvious IMO Maddie was used in getting maximum publicity for other crimes, by HCW.
His face was made famous worldwide as so called abductor - media and news outlets helped him gather whatever evidence he could, regarding other crimes.
CB it seems is never going to be charged with the abduction of Maddie
There was no evidence of abduction then.... as there isn't now,
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His actual words were ''He's an almost perfect suspect. All that's lacking for him to become the perfect suspect is that he's dead.''
I don't think you can say for sure why Amaral thinks that.
His actual words are pretty much exactly what I wrote. I don’t know why you’re disputing it and what else it could possibly mean apart from he’s an almost perfect patsy, not a crap patsy like you said he said.
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Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
So maybe possible or maybe not.
Without keep repeating this ..it is absolutely obvious IMO Maddie was used in getting maximum publicity for other crimes, by HCW.
His face was made famous worldwide as so called abductor - media and news outlets helped him gather whatever evidence he could, regarding other crimes.
CB it seems is never going to be charged with the abduction of Maddie
There was no evidence of abduction then.... as there isn't now,
Just tell me this - are you privy to all the evidence the Germans have collected on CB wrt Madeleine’s case?
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Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
So maybe possible or maybe not.
Without keep repeating this ..it is absolutely obvious IMO Maddie was used in getting maximum publicity for other crimes, by HCW.
His face was made famous worldwide as so called abductor - media and news outlets helped him gather whatever evidence he could, regarding other crimes.
CB it seems is never going to be charged with the abduction of Maddie
There was no evidence of abduction then.... as there isn't now,
That was my train of thought. Didn't Wolters say something about being surprised how seriously the British public took his saying Madeliene was dead? That would point to him wanting exposure to get more info on his suspect for other crimes IMO. I seem to remember the Germans made a bit of a mess early on and CB was released early at some point, I think this was a potential embarrassing situation they wanted to rectify be getting as much on him as possible.
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His actual words are pretty much exactly what I wrote. I don’t know why you’re disputing it and what else it could possibly mean apart from he’s an almost perfect patsy, not a crap patsy like you said he said.
I'm not disputing the words but your interpretation. It could mean that people react emotively to his crimes and therefore have no problem accepting he did something even when there doesn't seem to be evidence linking him to the scene. I'd say it's very hard to get meaning and context from so few words and be sure. It's a bit like Wolters 'concrete evidence'. It's well open to interpretation, especially with it being translated in the first place.
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I'm not disputing the words but your interpretation. It could mean that people react emotively to his crimes and therefore have no problem accepting he did something even when there doesn't seem to be evidence linking him to the scene. I'd say it's very hard to get meaning and context from so few words and be sure. It's a bit like Wolters 'concrete evidence'. It's well open to interpretation, especially with it being translated in the first place.
It’s very obvious what it means, but if you want to enter into a semantic argument about well I’m not playing that game. Amaral clearly feels that because of Bruckner’s profile he fits the stereotype of a child abductor. He wouldn’t be the perfect patsy if for example he was wheelchair bound, had lost both his legs saving children from a burning orphanage, had no previous criminal convictions and everyone who knew him only had positive things to say about him.
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That was my train of thought. Didn't Wolters say something about being surprised how seriously the British public took his saying Madeliene was dead? That would point to him wanting exposure to get more info on his suspect for other crimes IMO. I seem to remember the Germans made a bit of a mess early on and CB was released early at some point, I think this was a potential embarrassing situation they wanted to rectify be getting as much on him as possible.
Don’t you think it will be very much more embarrassing for them if they never actually press charges on Brückner, after making all those pronouncements?
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Don’t you think it will be very much more embarrassing for them if they never actually press charges on Brückner, after making all those pronouncements?
Maybe it will. The pronouncements seem very unusual. As far as I'm aware, the prosecutors in Germany have a legal obligation to investigate a crime if they are informed of one, he just seems to be doing his job but maybe there have been some miscalculations regarding the pronouncements and subsequent publicity generated.
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Maybe it will. The pronouncements seem very unusual. As far as I'm aware, the prosecutors in Germany have a legal obligation to investigate a crime if they are informed of one, he just seems to be doing his job but maybe there have been some miscalculations regarding the pronouncements and subsequent publicity generated.
You’d think if he’d made such serious miscalculations he’d be removed from the case wouldn’t you?
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You’d think if he’d made such serious miscalculations he’d be removed from the case wouldn’t you?
You said serious, I didn't. It might be worth it to them if they get CB convicted of a number of other crimes. I don't think anyone could deny that Wolter has said things in the media which seem contradictory at various points. I don't think we'll find out exactly why he's followed that strategy until CB is either charged or the investigation ends.
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Just tell me this - are you privy to all the evidence the Germans have collected on CB wrt Madeleine’s case?
What evidence is that...............are you privy to it - to know it even exists.
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That was my train of thought. Didn't Wolters say something about being surprised how seriously the British public took his saying Madeliene was dead? That would point to him wanting exposure to get more info on his suspect for other crimes IMO. I seem to remember the Germans made a bit of a mess early on and CB was released early at some point, I think this was a potential embarrassing situation they wanted to rectify be getting as much on him as possible.
IMO, I have always thought the most exposure to put CB out there in the public domain ...was to link him with Maddie.
Seemed it worked, to get info on other cases.
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Don’t you think it will be very much more embarrassing for them if they never actually press charges on Brückner, after making all those pronouncements?
Yes, but will he care.....if he got what he wanted anyway
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What evidence is that...............are you privy to it - to know it even exists.
You claimed to know it doesn’t. The only way you can know that is if you have been fully briefed by the German investigation- have you?
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You said serious, I didn't. It might be worth it to them if they get CB convicted of a number of other crimes. I don't think anyone could deny that Wolter has said things in the media which seem contradictory at various points. I don't think we'll find out exactly why he's followed that strategy until CB is either charged or the investigation ends.
Publicly accusing someone (falsely) of abduction and murder is serious isn’t it? What would you call it, having a laugh?
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Some people will never be happy. Brueckner has finally been charged of offences the like of which he has already been convicted but The BKA are still out to stitch up an innocent man. Heaven help us if he is convicted again.
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I'm not disputing the words but your interpretation. It could mean that people react emotively to his crimes and therefore have no problem accepting he did something even when there doesn't seem to be evidence linking him to the scene. I'd say it's very hard to get meaning and context from so few words and be sure. It's a bit like Wolters 'concrete evidence'. It's well open to interpretation, especially with it being translated in the first place.
The evidence that convinces the Germans 100 % that CB murdered Maddie.... Is that open to interpretation too
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That was my train of thought. Didn't Wolters say something about being surprised how seriously the British public took his saying Madeliene was dead? That would point to him wanting exposure to get more info on his suspect for other crimes IMO. I seem to remember the Germans made a bit of a mess early on and CB was released early at some point, I think this was a potential embarrassing situation they wanted to rectify be getting as much on him as possible.
Getting "as much on him as possible" only works if there is something there to be got. It seems there was. Which has resulted in him being indicted in relation to horrendous sexual crimes.
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I'm not disputing the words but your interpretation. It could mean that people react emotively to his crimes and therefore have no problem accepting he did something even when there doesn't seem to be evidence linking him to the scene. I'd say it's very hard to get meaning and context from so few words and be sure. It's a bit like Wolters 'concrete evidence'. It's well open to interpretation, especially with it being translated in the first place.
Semantics 😁
Amaral interfered with the German investigation when he lied about the appearance of Brueckner's vehicle in 2007.
Amaral also lied about patsy Brueckner's appearance in 2007.
Can you explain why Amaral and his sceptic supporters are so eager to interfere with and destroy the German case to allow Brueckner, an already convicted sexual predator who is facing more charges for heinous sexual crimes, his freedom to walk the streets among us.
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You said serious, I didn't. It might be worth it to them if they get CB convicted of a number of other crimes. I don't think anyone could deny that Wolter has said things in the media which seem contradictory at various points. I don't think we'll find out exactly why he's followed that strategy until CB is either charged or the investigation ends.
Quite an extraordinary sentiment in that post.
"It might be worth it to them if they get CB convicted of a number of other crimes."
Are you really suggesting Brueckner is being set up (patsy) because that is what that sentence is saying loud and clear to me.
If there is evidence which allows Brueckner to be charged with criminal offences that is no one's fault but Brueckner's.
If the police "get" Brueckner convicted of crimes they will be carrying out their duty of maintaining law and order and protecting the public.
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What evidence is that...............are you privy to it - to know it even exists.
Of course there is evidence. Without evidence there could have been no indictments.
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IMO, I have always thought the most exposure to put CB out there in the public domain ...was to link him with Maddie.
Seemed it worked, to get info on other cases.
Are you suggesting that evidence of criminality should be ignored? That is interesting. Because ignoring heinous crime is apparently what the Portuguese have been consistently doing for years.
That is condoning crimes such as the rape detailed below, which had to wait for German investigators to get justice for the terrifying ordeal Dianne suffered at Brueckner's hands. He planned it. He brought his rape kit with him complete with video camera and left a woman traumatised for the rest of her life "the attack still haunted her.
‘After that she couldn’t sleep, couldn’t turn off the lights at night and was afraid,’ ."
____________________________________________________________________
The German, who was given seven years in jail for the sexual assault, is reported to have blindfolded and then beaten the 72-year-old with a metal pole after breaking into her house near Praia da Luz.
He is then said to have carried out the degrading rape, videotaping the whole ordeal and ripping off his own mask at the end of the attack before stealing cash and a computer, according to evidence heard at Brueckner’s trial last year in Braunschweig, near Hanover.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20200605/281573767921011
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The evidence that convinces the Germans 100 % that CB murdered Maddie.... Is that open to interpretation too
Do they really have any?
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Are you suggesting that evidence of criminality should be ignored? That is interesting. Because ignoring heinous crime is apparently what the Portuguese have been consistently doing for years.
That is condoning crimes such as the rape detailed below, which had to wait for German investigators to get justice for the terrifying ordeal Dianne suffered at Brueckner's hands. He planned it. He brought his rape kit with him complete with video camera and left a woman traumatised for the rest of her life "the attack still haunted her.
‘After that she couldn’t sleep, couldn’t turn off the lights at night and was afraid,’ ."
____________________________________________________________________
The German, who was given seven years in jail for the sexual assault, is reported to have blindfolded and then beaten the 72-year-old with a metal pole after breaking into her house near Praia da Luz.
He is then said to have carried out the degrading rape, videotaping the whole ordeal and ripping off his own mask at the end of the attack before stealing cash and a computer, according to evidence heard at Brueckner’s trial last year in Braunschweig, near Hanover.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20200605/281573767921011
No, I have to correct you there. The Portuguese didn’t ignore these crimes, they investigated them, & there was nothing available from the evidence gathered at that time, that pointed specifically to Brueckner.
It wasn't until later, when his mates dobbed him in, that a direct link to him could be established.
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Then we have the rape of Hazel Behan.
Again, CB leaves scant or no evidence at the scene, Behan said he was meticulous about leaving no trace & used protection.
So, the only evidence the PJ had at that time, was that a 6' man in a mask & stockings filmed a rape of a holiday rep.
It wasn't until after Brueckner had been dobbed in by his mates for a similar crime, that anything linking he, specifically, to that crime could be established.
I wonder if his very unusual body shape showed up on the video?
The hollowed out tummy area is very distinctive and it sounds as though he wasn't wearing any clothes that would have hidden it.
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This is precisely why IMO the PJ weren’t bothered with trying to investigate these crimes with any degree of rigour. It would have shone a light on the seedier aspects of the Portuguese “paradise” and potentially turned off a lot of tourists.
That could have been part of the reason, but it seems that there was far more than that IMO.
Just take the lies that happened and disiformation given out by Amaral and his cohorts .... and that is apart from the deliberate trashing of The Mccanns reputations. Such a lot of this seems to have been done by Amaral and his immediate cohorts within the PJ and outside it
The burning question is WHY ?
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IMO, I have always thought the most exposure to put CB out there in the public domain ...was to link him with Maddie.
Seemed it worked, to get info on other cases.
Have you thought that it might have been engineered by a group, a fraternity mayhaps, wanting to put up a smoke screen and take the attention off the real perps (themselves)? All this business pf Madeleine being dead is just what the perps want, especially with a guy like Brueckner, who could so easily be set up as a fall guy People will not be so interested if they think that Madeleine is no more.
The perps could have engineered the situation to make him the fall guy IMO
Please note, I am NOT pointing the finger at Wolters. We have all witnessed FACTS being skilfully altered on the internet. FACTS being turned upside down. Even videos seamlesly altered. Has Wolters been affected by these untruths, believing the lies rather than the truth ?
Because, for my own concrete reasons, I very seriously believe Madeleine to have been carefully kept alive. I have read on the internet that all the main psychics/mediums agree that Madeleine is still living.
My understanding is that psychics communicate to the spirit of the dead person and if there is no response then the person is NOT DEAD, but still living.
Please note: I have never dabbled in spiritualism, nor wizardry/ sorcery/ warlockery/ necromancy etc. so cannot claim any expertize. I have, however, had a number of surreal/supernatural experiences which make me wonder if I tried, would I be a natural psychic.
I have no wish to be a wizard/warlock and bully others.
https://thesaurus.plus/synonyms/warlock etc.
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-wizard-and-vs-warlock/
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I wonder if his very unusual body shape showed up on the video?
The hollowed out tummy area is very distinctive and it sounds as though he wasn't wearing any clothes that would have hidden it.
I wonder if Wolters actually has the video? I doubt it. We know from MWT that the DM rape was recorded on cassette, the tape apparently being left in a vehicle when it was sold on. MWT tried to visit the buyers of the vehicle & was chased off by an angry guy wielding a knife (see his documentary). Since the Behan rape was in early 2000's I doubt it would have been a digital recording & found under CB's dog, but we'll see. Jon Clark has claimed there is a partial fingerprint match from a knife at Behan's, however, I've read from Behan's account CB had his own 12" machete, so not sure he would actually have needed to touch a knife at the scene.
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Of course there is evidence. Without evidence there could have been no indictments.
Are indictments the same as cherges, I wonder...
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Have you thought that it might have been engineered by a group, a fraternity mayhaps, wanting to put up a smoke screen and take the attention off the real perps (themselves)? All this business pf Madeleine being dead is just what the perps want, especially with a guy like Brueckner, who could so easily be set up as a fall guy People will not be so interested if they think that Madeleine is no more.
The perps could have engineered the situation to make him the fall guy IMO
Please note, I am NOT pointing the finger at Wolters. We have all witnessed FACTS being skilfully altered on the internet. FACTS being turned upside down. Even videos seamlesly altered. Has Wolters been affected by these untruths, believing the lies rather than the truth ?
Because, for my own concrete reasons, I very seriously believe Madeleine to have been carefully kept alive. I have read on the internet that all the main psychics/mediums agree that Madeleine is still living.
My understanding is that psychics communicate to the spirit of the dead person and if there is no response then the person is NOT DEAD, but still living.
Please note: I have never dabbled in spiritualism, nor wizardry/ sorcery/ warlockery/ necromancy etc. so cannot claim any expertize. I have, however, had a number of surreal/supernatural experiences which make me wonder if I tried, would I be a natural psychic.
I have no wish to be a wizard/warlock and bully others.
https://thesaurus.plus/synonyms/warlock etc.
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-wizard-and-vs-warlock/
Unfortunately for you, Sadie, not many people are interested in what psychics say. I myself think that using them as an indication that Madeleine is alive hinders rather than helps your argument. What they say can't be seen as or used as evidence of anything imo.
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Are indictments the same as cherges, I wonder...
yes they are
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Are indictments the same as cherges, I wonder...
Probably used more in North America than on this side of the water. But it does mean a formal charge. Never too late to learn something new each day though. 😁
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Possible trial of Maddie suspects not before 2023
So maybe possible or maybe not.
Without keep repeating this ..it is absolutely obvious IMO Maddie was used in getting maximum publicity for other crimes, by HCW.
His face was made famous worldwide as so called abductor - media and news outlets helped him gather whatever evidence he could, regarding other crimes.
CB it seems is never going to be charged with the abduction of Maddie
There was no evidence of abduction then.... as there isn't now,
Can you explain why CB bragged to his mate that he knew everything that had happened to Madeleine.
Before you say the mate is lying for money, he was right in what he said about the rapes, he described the surroundings and what went on exactly how it actually happened.
So why lie about Madeleine?
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Can you explain why CB bragged to his mate that he knew everything that had happened to Madeleine.
Before you say the mate is lying for money, he was right in what he said about the rapes, he described the surroundings and what went on exactly how it actually happened.
So why lie about Madeleine?
Because people sometimes boast about things they haven't really done.
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Probably used more in North America than on this side of the water. But it does mean a formal charge. Never too late to learn something new each day though. 😁
I've been reading about indictments and in Germany they are not the same as in the US.
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Unfortunately for you, Sadie, not many people are interested in what psychics say. I myself think that using them as an indication that Madeleine is alive hinders rather than helps your argument. What they say can't be seen as or used as evidence of anything imo.
S.Y. Have been in touch with Matt James. He revealed that on his website.
They have shown interest in what he had to say/show, even if noone here has. Such a shame.
Has anyone on here bothered to read "Harry Potter" ? A great deal of the story is on there if you have the ability to pick it out. It is amazing. as also are Matt James Tarots and reasonings.
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Because people sometimes boast about things they haven't really done.
Because Busching said so, & Brueckner said so, & the McCanns said so, & Wolters said so, & SY said so, & Jesus said so.
When I hear evidence, I prefer to just accept it as entirely truthful & beyond question.
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I wonder if his very unusual body shape showed up on the video?
The hollowed out tummy area is very distinctive and it sounds as though he wasn't wearing any clothes that would have hidden it.
We know Brueckner had his own collections of pornographic images secreted on sticks hidden in various places and some of which were used to substantiate his conviction for child molestation.
We also know that Brueckner is reported to have had a presence on the internet "According to "Spiegel", this is stated in investigation files of the Stendal police, which prosecutors, BKA investigators, lawyers and prospective police officers at the police college have evaluated." https://www.rtl.de/cms/fall-maddie-mccann-christian-b-fantasierte-in-chat-ueber-missbrauch-4555154.html
It is possible two of the three new rape charges may have been traced to his internet activities and the study of images might have come up trumps with background images associated with Brueckner.
I think that would be poetic justice for a rapist to inadvertently post a record of his activities complete with supporting evidence.
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I've been reading about indictments and in Germany they are not the same as in the US.
Maybe you should take that up with the Germans who seem to have no difficulty at all with using "indictment" and "charge" in the same paragraph and meaning exactly the same thing.
Is there ever going to be the slightest chance of you dropping this deflecting tit-for-tat nonsense you indulge in or are you too addicted to giving yourself constant showing ups? or as we say here constantly "giving yourself a big riddie (red face)"
Die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig hat am Dienstag Anklage gegen den 45-jährigen Christian Brückner erhoben. Offizieller Anklagegrund sind «mehrere Sexualstraftaten, die dieser zwischen dem 28. Dezember 2000 und dem 11. Juni 2017 in Portugal begangen haben soll».
On Tuesday, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office filed charges against the 45-year-old Christian Brückner exalted. The official reason for the indictment is "several sexual offences allegedly committed in Portugal between 28 December 2000 and 11 June 2017". https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
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Maybe you should take that up with the Germans who seem to have no difficulty at all with using "indictment" and "charge" in the same paragraph and meaning exactly the same thing.
Is there ever going to be the slightest chance of you dropping this deflecting tit-for-tat nonsense you indulge in or are you too addicted to giving yourself constant showing ups? or as we say here constantly "giving yourself a big riddie (red face)"
Die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig hat am Dienstag Anklage gegen den 45-jährigen Christian Brückner erhoben. Offizieller Anklagegrund sind «mehrere Sexualstraftaten, die dieser zwischen dem 28. Dezember 2000 und dem 11. Juni 2017 in Portugal begangen haben soll».
On Tuesday, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office filed charges against the 45-year-old Christian Brückner exalted. The official reason for the indictment is "several sexual offences allegedly committed in Portugal between 28 December 2000 and 11 June 2017". https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
Well my google translation doesn't match yours, as I can't find your quote in mine. No worries, I'm sure everything is as you say. 8((()*/
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S.Y. Have been in touch with Matt James. He revealed that on his website.
They have shown interest in what he had to say/show, even if noone here has. Such a shame.
Has anyone on here bothered to read "Harry Potter" ? A great deal of the story is on there if you have the ability to pick it out. It is amazing. as also are Matt James Tarots and reasonings.
I have no problem with you believing anything you like, Sadie, but trying to convince others that any of it's applicable is a non-starter, imo.
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Can you explain why CB bragged to his mate that he knew everything that had happened to Madeleine.
Before you say the mate is lying for money, he was right in what he said about the rapes, he described the surroundings and what went on exactly how it actually happened.
So why lie about Madeleine?
Well, you tell me.....seeing as you think you know what I'm going to say.
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Well my google translation doesn't match yours, as I can't find your quote in mine. No worries, I'm sure everything is as you say. 8((()*/
Well the translation Google did specially for me goes on to say ~
"Serious rape and sexual abuse of children"
Specifically, Brückner is accused of "serious rape" in three cases and acts of sexual abuse of children in two cases.
In one case, he is accused of handcuffing and raping a woman about 70 to 80 years old in her holiday home in Portugal between 28 December 2000 and 8 April 2006.
In the same period, Brückner is said to have tortured and sexually abused a 14-year-old German-speaking girl in his house.
On the night of April 16, 2004, Brückner allegedly woken up a 20-year-old woman from Ireland "with a knife and brutally raped her," according to prosecutors.
Later, he is said to have tied up the victim and sexually abused him again. Brückner filmed "large parts of the action" with a video camera he brought with him.
In 2007, Brückner allegedly sexually assaulted a ten-year-old woman on a stretch of beach in Salema in the district of Faro in Portugal. In 2017, a similar incident was repeated on a playground, in which an eleven-year-old girl became a victim.
https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
The indictment is pretty serious stuff ~ but just ignore all that for the very much more serious off topic discussion of semantics and "indictment"v"charge"
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All the indications point to the fact that Brueckner is considered a very dangerous recidivist and one whom the BKA are specially keen to prevent committing further outrages against women and children. While continuing to take a belt and braces approach to the Madeleine McCann investigation.
Prosecutor's office sees "risk of flight and repetition"
The public prosecutor's office has applied for the issuance of an arrest warrant because, in its view, there is an urgent suspicion of the crime.
In addition, there is a risk of flight and repetition.
The more than 100-page indictment was preceded by several years, very intensive and time-consuming investigations in several European countries, in particular by the Federal Criminal Police Office.
Brückner was a "multiple convicted sex offender", who had been convicted, among other things, of sexual abuse of children.
Because of a rape in 2005 in Portugal, Brückner is currently serving a seven-year prison sentence.
The investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann is also ongoing.
In this case, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office continues to ask for the help of the population. Information can be submitted via the following link: www.bka.de/oeffentlichkeitsfahndung7.
https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
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Well the translation Google did specially for me goes on to say ~
"Serious rape and sexual abuse of children"
Specifically, Brückner is accused of "serious rape" in three cases and acts of sexual abuse of children in two cases.
In one case, he is accused of handcuffing and raping a woman about 70 to 80 years old in her holiday home in Portugal between 28 December 2000 and 8 April 2006.
In the same period, Brückner is said to have tortured and sexually abused a 14-year-old German-speaking girl in his house.
On the night of April 16, 2004, Brückner allegedly woken up a 20-year-old woman from Ireland "with a knife and brutally raped her," according to prosecutors.
Later, he is said to have tied up the victim and sexually abused him again. Brückner filmed "large parts of the action" with a video camera he brought with him.
In 2007, Brückner allegedly sexually assaulted a ten-year-old woman on a stretch of beach in Salema in the district of Faro in Portugal. In 2017, a similar incident was repeated on a playground, in which an eleven-year-old girl became a victim.
https://www.20min.ch/story/staatsanwaltschaft-klagt-maddie-verdaechtigen-brueckner-an-670059536554
The indictment is pretty serious stuff ~ but just ignore all that for the very much more serious off topic discussion of semantics and "indictment"v"charge"
Whatever this and any further steps follow, the case is now in the hands of the courts and the investigation into these crimes is over.
"An indictment is a letter from the public prosecutor’s office to the court requesting a public main hearing.
An indictment is brought if, after a criminal investigation, a public prosecutor comes to the conclusion that the probability of a conviction is higher than the probability of an acquittal (so-called sufficient grounds for suspicion)...
The defender is particularly challenged from the moment a charge is brought. It is now “about the whole”. The primary contact on the other side is now the judge and no longer the prosecutor.
The indictment is addressed to the competent court, which forwards it to the accused and opens a deadline for him to comment.
https://criminal-law-germany.lawyer/criminal-indictment/
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Because people sometimes boast about things they haven't really done.
He boasted about all the robberies he had done, he was used to robbing apartments. Why would he lie about knowing what happened to Madeleine ?
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https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-increase-penalties-for-sexual-violence-against-children/a-54014267
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Delete
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He boasted about all the robberies he had done, he was used to robbing apartments. Why would he lie about knowing what happened to Madeleine ?
Why wouldn't he?
He lived in Luz, so would have heard about the case, plus he happened to have a sexual interest in children too. The fact I need to explain this is laughable really, & goes some way to explaining why you're a McCann believer, bless ya gullible cotton socks aye.
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Delete
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Why wouldn't he?
He lived in Luz, so would have heard about the case, plus he happened to have a sexual interest in children too. The fact I need to explain this is laughable really, & goes some way to explaining why you're a McCann believer, bless ya gullible cotton socks aye.
Maybe when boasting he hadn't realised that is mate would be shocked to know he was a Paedophile and a rapist. Stealing and selling drugs maybe but not a Paedophile and a rapist. He made a big mistake boasting about that didn't he.
Your the gullible one, can't imagine this poor man taking a child can you?
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Maybe when boasting he hadn't realised that is mate would be shocked to know he was a Paedophile and a rapist. Stealing and selling drugs maybe but not a Paedophile and a rapist. He made a big mistake boasting about that didn't he.
Your the gullible one, can't imagine this poor man taking a child can you?
Oh, I can imagine it. But there's simply no good reason to believe he actually did.
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https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-increase-penalties-for-sexual-violence-against-children/a-54014267
Good to hear.
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If McCann supporters are gullible what does that make the German and British investigators? Even more gullible, or evil pranksters, playing tricks on McCann supporters?
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If McCann supporters are gullible what does that make the German and British investigators? Even more gullible, or evil pranksters, playing tricks on McCann supporters?
I might be an arrogant know it all... But I'm certainly not gullible
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If McCann supporters are gullible what does that make the German and British investigators? Even more gullible, or evil pranksters, playing tricks on McCann supporters?
Yes yes, they're investigating 'the abduction' aren't they, good for them.
But that also explains why they can't solve the case.
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I might be an arrogant know it all... But I'm certainly not gullible
Really? Just the other day you were telling us Brueckner was being charged with murder.
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If Brueckner is convicted on any of these five counts then he is going down for a very long time. And it isn't a very big IF as he has already been convicted of both offences.
For the moment that is all I care about. Keep him off the streets of anywhere.
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I might be an arrogant know it all... But I'm certainly not gullible
The people I feel are gullible are those who think Amaral is a great man with points of view that are worth listening to and that the bark of a dog is all you need to tell you whether or not someone committed a crime.
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If Brueckner is convicted on any of these five counts then he is going down for a very long time. And it isn't a very big IF as he has already been convicted of both offences.
For the moment that is all I care about. Keep him off the streets of anywhere.
That's ALL you care about?
Bloody Hell. Don't you even care about your friends, family, pets, anything like that?
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If Brueckner is convicted on any of these five counts then he is going down for a very long time. And it isn't a very big IF as he has already been convicted of both offences.
For the moment that is all I care about. Keep him off the streets of anywhere.
There are plenty like him still crawling around the streets unfortunately.
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The people I feel are gullible are those who think Amaral is a great man with points of view that are worth listening to and that the bark of a dog is all you need to tell you whether or not someone committed a crime.
Good for you.
I have little to no interest in Amaral, dogs or anything like that personally.
The only time I do bother talking about Amaral is when McCann supporters complain about him.
Which is frequently, but then there's not much in the way of abduction evidence they can discuss, to be fair.
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There are plenty like him still crawling around the streets unfortunately.
No point losing sleep over it.
If people are genuinely concerned about paedophilia they should take a look at Muslim or African countries that permit child brides, but that would be potentially racist so can't go there.
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There are plenty like him still crawling around the streets unfortunately.
One at a time it seems. And not even that in Portugal.
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One at a time it seems. And not even that in Portugal.
It's nowhere near as bad as South Africa, where 1 in 4 women report being raped. Never see you complaining about crime rates from anywhere else in the world, singularly focused on Portugal, for some reason. Why is that?
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I'd venture there are more child abductions & murders in Africa too.
Poor kids there never get a mention.
Only white British girls are worth caring about apparently, & people think I'm racist (I am).
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Did someone squeak? I don't speak Squeak.
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Did someone squeak? I don't speak Squeak.
My pet mouse finds your sentiment very offensive.
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Really? Just the other day you were telling us Brueckner was being charged with murder.
Actually I didn't. Even though that was what was being reported from official documents.. Dont really expect you to get your facts right. Lol
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Actually I didn't. Even though that was what was being reported from official documents.. Dont really expect you to get your facts right. Lol
If I'm not wrong.. Breukner charged with rape and murder
Well, you were right about the rape I suppose.
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Well, you were right about the rape I suppose.
So you totally missed that I suggested it might not be accurate
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So you totally missed that I suggested it might not be accurate
Dude, you were willing to entertain the idea it might have been.
Enough said.
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Dude, you were willing to entertain the idea it might have been.
Enough said.
Seeing as an official release from the BKA said exactly that... I was willing to think it might be true..
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Two of Wolters biggest critics.. John and Angel... Have yet to comment on Wolters success in raising these charges against CB
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Seeing as an official release from the BKA said exactly that... I was willing to think it might be true..
Yes, and when Wolters says he has 100% convincing, concrete evidence then there's simply no reason to doubt him either.
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Yes, and when Wolters says he has 100% convincing, concrete evidence then there's simply no reason to doubt him either.
Wrong as usual.. It seems it was a mistake in translation..
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Wrong as usual.. It seems it was a mistake in translation..
Translations. The Bane of our lives for fifteen years, along with Interpretations of Law. But at least e don't need to worry about Portugal anymore. Portugal is no longer of any importance, despite this one man Crime Wave happening on their territory.
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Translations. The Bane of our lives for fifteen years, along with Interpretations of Law. But at least e don't need to worry about Portugal anymore. Portugal is no longer of any importance, despite this one man Crime Wave happening on their territory.
If Portugal is no longer important, does this mean you'll stop banging on about the place?
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Do I hear more squeaking?
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Do I hear more squeaking?
Anyway, enough about Portugal, we've done Portugal now. Time we moved on to something else.
Have you ever heard of that guy Gonçalo Amaral? Got sacked from the PJ for trying to frame the McCanns apparently.
How do you feel about him today?
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Two of Wolters biggest critics.. John and Angel... Have yet to comment on Wolters success in raising these charges against CB
Probably because they are cases unrelated to maddy.
Seems IMO it's not about wolts success... it's about what happened to Maddie.
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Probably because they are cases unrelated to maddy.
Seems IMO it's not about wolts success... it's about what happened to Maddie.
For the moment it's about keeping a prolific sex abuser off the streets of Europe.
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Probably because they are cases unrelated to maddy.
Seems IMO it's not about wolts success... it's about what happened to Maddie.
it shows Wolters has credibility...charging cases the PJ fialed on....and may well be connected
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For the moment it's about keeping a prolific sex abuser off the streets of Europe.
Yes, well let's hope they all don't use Maddie to solve their cases.
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Yes, well let's hope they all don't use Maddie to solve their cases.
they want to solve all cases...and the rape cases may well help solve maddies case
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Yes, well let's hope they all don't use Maddie to solve their cases.
They don't need to.
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it shows Wolters has credibility...charging cases the PJ fialed on....and may well be connected
It shows nothing ...apart from wolt doing what he is supposed to do and getting paid for it.
The only connection IMO is he used Maddie to get the information he was after.
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they want to solve all cases...and the rape cases may well help solve maddies case
Yes and so they should, may help I doubt that very much
If he had any proof like he said he has....why is he going to wait nearly3 years to show it.
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It shows nothing ...apart from wolt doing what he is supposed to do and getting paid for it.
The only connection IMO is he used Maddie to get the information he was after.
I can see another possible connection which could be used in the Maddie case against CB but Wolters has to establish guilt in the Behan case to show an established MO
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Yes and so they should, may help I doubt that very much
If he had any proof like he said he has....why is he going to wait nearly3 years to show it.
Read my post above for the explanation
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Yes and so they should, may help I doubt that very much
If he had any proof like he said he has....why is he going to wait nearly3 years to show it.
Why should he not? There is no hurry. Getting the slightly lessor cases out of the way first.
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Why should he not? There is no hurry. Getting the slightly lessor cases out of the way first.
Quite, it doesn't really matter if it takes another decade or two. He'll probably be still in jail.
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People who think sex offenders like Bruckner who don't have a track record of murder and so should be discounted as a suspect in Madeleine's abduction and murder should check out developments in the Leah Croucher murder investigation.
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It shows nothing ...apart from wolt doing what he is supposed to do and getting paid for it.
The only connection IMO is he used Maddie to get the information he was after.
Who is "wolt"?
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People who think sex offenders like Bruckner who don't have a track record of murder and so should be discounted as a suspect in Madeleine's abduction and murder should check out developments in the Leah Croucher murder investigation.
Dont worry, CB is just a patsy concluded from a different high up police force 15 years later. Am sure the BKA from 2016 were twiddling thumbs, ah finally SY have found something, passed it onto them. And still twidling thumbs.
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MADDIE MYSTERY I helped Madeleine McCann investigation – Christian B revelations could be tip of iceberg… he’s the rarest of monsters
Alison Maloney
13 Oct 2022
... former detective Dr Graham Hill - who was sent to the resort of Praia da Luz, Portugal, to advise local police in the days after her abduction - believes the new revelations could just be the "tip of the iceberg".
"What people need to do is to park up the Madeleine McCann case and look at him as a sex offender in his own right," he tells The Sun.
"He's a man that's been committing sexual crimes for long periods of time.
"The likelihood is that he would have committed many, many offences, most of them would have gone unrecorded and unreported. This would be just the tip of the iceberg for him."
__________________________________________________
“Christian B has previous for sexually abusing children but he’s also a burglar and a risk taker, who was known to Portuguese police and was living in the area at the time.
“If I'd been investigating this crime, he would have been a suspect for me early on and he should have been top of their list.
“I’d like to know if the Portuguese police knew about him? And if they did, what did they do to eliminate him from the investigation?
“And when the Portuguese police passed their information to the Metropolitan Police for their investigation, did they include Christian B's name in that suspect list?”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20075456/murder-detective-madeleine-mccann-christian-b-graham-hill/
Apparently Brueckner was on the Portuguese police radar. It is pertinent to wonder why he was allowed to drop off it.
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MADDIE MYSTERY I helped Madeleine McCann investigation – Christian B revelations could be tip of iceberg… he’s the rarest of monsters
Alison Maloney
13 Oct 2022
... former detective Dr Graham Hill - who was sent to the resort of Praia da Luz, Portugal, to advise local police in the days after her abduction - believes the new revelations could just be the "tip of the iceberg".
"What people need to do is to park up the Madeleine McCann case and look at him as a sex offender in his own right," he tells The Sun.
"He's a man that's been committing sexual crimes for long periods of time.
"The likelihood is that he would have committed many, many offences, most of them would have gone unrecorded and unreported. This would be just the tip of the iceberg for him."
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“Christian B has previous for sexually abusing children but he’s also a burglar and a risk taker, who was known to Portuguese police and was living in the area at the time.
“If I'd been investigating this crime, he would have been a suspect for me early on and he should have been top of their list.
“I’d like to know if the Portuguese police knew about him? And if they did, what did they do to eliminate him from the investigation?
“And when the Portuguese police passed their information to the Metropolitan Police for their investigation, did they include Christian B's name in that suspect list?”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20075456/murder-detective-madeleine-mccann-christian-b-graham-hill/
Apparently Brueckner was on the Portuguese police radar. It is pertinent to wonder why he was allowed to drop off it.
And on OG’s radar from at least 2013.
Same question applies.
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It’s worth repeating Hazel Behan’s words here:
The mother-of-three said: “I always said my attacker was a German with piercing blue eyes and a voice I would recognise immediately. When Brueckner’s name was released in connection to the Madeleine case and to the rape of that poor woman Diana Menkes, I knew it was him.
“I knew I had to speak out and help the police. My family were behind me 100%. In fact, it was my brother who had spotted it first on RTE and sent me a link. The minute I saw it, I was certain he was my attacker. It made me sick to the core.
“Until that day I knew I had to bury it. I knew I had zero chance of justice, but thanks to all of the campaigning and the perseverance of Madeleine’s amazing parents, today, 18 years after my rape, I have an opportunity to see my attacker behind bars.
“I just wish I could have got the Portuguese police to do their actual jobs at the time, as if they had, Diana would not have been raped, and Madeleine would be alive today. And maybe others,” she added. Ms Behan went on to say that the past number of years have taken their toll on her.
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Dr Graham Hill:
“Everyone thinks murders are solved by CSI type techniques such as fingerprinting, blood spatter analysis and so on but actually, sometimes murders are solved by someone banging on the door and doing the basic, traditional policing techniques. They are still the bedrock of those investigations”
I doubt he meant “knock on doors then rule out the known residents when they don’t answer”.
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Was Brueckner even known to the PJ at the time of Hazels rape?
Did he have a permanent address & door they could have knocked on?
Could she not just have locked her own door?
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The rapist, whoever it was, came through the balcony door, didn't he? HB probably didn't expect a visit from tight-wearing Spiderman that night and so left it unlocked.
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The rapist, whoever it was, came through the balcony door, didn't he? HB probably didn't expect a visit from tight-wearing Spiderman that night and so left it unlocked.
I don't expect nefarious visitors either but I lock my doors and windows all the same. I think I'm right to do it, considering the consequences when people don't lock their doors and windows.
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I don't expect nefarious visitors either but I lock my doors and windows all the same. I think I'm right to do it, considering the consequences when people don't lock their doors and windows.
I agree.. It really was her own fault she was raped
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I don't expect nefarious visitors either but I lock my doors and windows all the same. I think I'm right to do it, considering the consequences when people don't lock their doors and windows.
Not only the perfect parent, but the perfect person full stop. Congratulations!
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The rapist, whoever it was, came through the balcony door, didn't he? HB probably didn't expect a visit from tight-wearing Spiderman that night and so left it unlocked.
I’ve told this story before so apologies for repeating myself but when I was little we lived in a flat with a balcony on the second floor. My parents never closed the balcony doors as they considered it too high up for anyone to break into, but they were wrong. While we slept an intruder came in and stole valuables from my parents bedside tables. Fortunately they weren’t interested in stealing a little blonde girl otherwise I might not be here now.
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I agree.. It really was her own fault she was raped
Well, it might never have happened if she'd just locked her door. I think that's quite fair to say really. She should think herself lucky Brueckner was only a rapist & not a murderer really.
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I don't expect nefarious visitors either but I lock my doors and windows all the same. I think I'm right to do it, considering the consequences when people don't lock their doors and windows.
I prefer to leave all my doors & windows unlocked, put out a welcome mat for any burglars, rapists or murderers that wish to visit & then expect the police to clean up the mess I helped create.
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I agree.. It really was her own fault she was raped
Who said that? No-one. My view is that the world we live in isn't safe. There are nasty people around who will harm others if they get the chance. Anyone who forgets that may find they could end up in trouble. Lock your home and your car and don't wander into dark areas alone and you reduce the odds. Common sense imo.
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Who said that? No-one. My view is that the world we live in isn't safe. There are nasty people around who will harm others if they get the chance. Anyone who forgets that may find they could end up in trouble. Lock your home and your car and don't wander into dark areas alone and you reduce the odds. Common sense imo.
What you are saying is she had a responsibility in keeping herself safe and that if she had locked the door she would have been safe... So she has to take some blame.. That's what you are saying 8((()*/
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What you are saying is she had a responsibility in keeping herself safe and that if she had locked the door she would have been safe... So she has to take some blame.. That's what you are saying 8((()*/
These are Victim Blaming Days. Didn't you know that?
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If she'd been burgled & admitted to leaving her door open an insurer may not have paid out, because she'd be at fault.
I don't see why it should be any different for rape.
Still, Brueckner gave her a memorable lesson in the importance of home security that should see her safe for the rest of her life now, so in part she should be grateful.
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What you are saying is she had a responsibility in keeping herself safe and that if she had locked the door she would have been safe... So she has to take some blame.. That's what you are saying 8((()*/
Exactly this. It’s this attitude which fuels the online holier-than-though commentators in cases like this, not a horror of the crimes perpetrated against the individuals involved but crticism of those individuals for “allowing” the crimes to happen in the first place. As if these commentators had never once put a foot wrong themselves.
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She said she'd noticed earlier in the week that things were missing or had been moved in her room, yet still didn't feel compelled to lock the door. Not the sharpest tool in the box bless her.
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Exactly this. It’s this attitude which fuels the online holier-than-though commentators in cases like this.
Who gets the blame when the doors are locked? Brueckner seems to have been very good at breaking into locked houses anyway.
So blame the victim for being there.
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None of those small children should have been running around playgrounds, obviously. Time to change them for leading Brueckner astray.
Rape Victims deserve to be raped for being rapeable.
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Who gets the blame when the doors are locked? Brueckner seems to have been very good at breaking into locked houses anyway.
So blame the victim for being there.
Did this hypothetical victim have good solid multipoint locking systems on their doors & windows & a decent burglar alarm?
If not then maybe they should have.
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I never lock my doors. But I've got a Doberman and a Sword Stick. Enter here at your own peril.
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None of those small children should have been running around playgrounds, obviously. Time to change them for leading Brueckner astray.
Rape Victims deserve to be raped for being rapeable.
You have to feel sorry for all the rapists, paedos, murderers and burglars who are basically forced to commit their crimes by all their idiotic victims putting unbearable temptation in their way.
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You have to feel sorry for all the rapists, paedos, murderers and burglars who are basically forced to commit their crimes by all their idiotic victims putting unbearable temptation in their way.
And even during the day and out in public. Stay indoors, lock your doors and never go anywhere. Otherwise it is your fault and serves you right.
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Has their ever been a rape victim who didn’t basically give their rapist the green light through their own actions? Whether it be walking home late at night or getting drunk at a party or arranging to meet a date via online dating, or sitting at home watching tv on a summer’s evening with the patio doors open? Yes, through their totally unreasonable and selfish desire to go about their daily business they clearly brought their misfortune upon themsleves. Lock up the victims and pay compensation to their unfortunate aggressors. *%87
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The World has indeed gone mad. However, Brueckner is banged up for a good while yet, poor soul.
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Five Charges involving small children and vulnerable women. How many of them are actually true? Only a Court Case will prove that.
But I am getting rather tired of the whole boring process of people defending this man against offences that he has already been convicted of previously.
Madeleine McCann is another story and will have to take it's place.
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Who gets the blame when the doors are locked? Brueckner seems to have been very good at breaking into locked houses anyway.
So blame the victim for being there.
Which locked houses did Brueckner break into?
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Five Charges involving small children and vulnerable women. How many of them are actually true? Only a Court Case will prove that.
But I am getting rather tired of the whole boring process of people defending this man against offences that he has already been convicted of previously.
Madeleine McCann is another story and will have to take it's place.
I think Madeleine is but a bye story in the CB saga, I see its said on sleuths that a Madeleine docu was shown again on German TV appealing for victims to come forward, murder victims can't so that must mean sex crime victims, strangely in all of this only one alleged murder victim ?
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Which locked houses did Brueckner break into?
Are you saying he never broke into a locked house?
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I think Madeleine is but a bye story in the CB saga, I see its said on sleuths that a Madeleine docu was shown again on German TV appealing for victims to come forward, murder victims can't so that must mean sex crime victims, strangely in all of this only one alleged murder victim ?
How do you know there weren't any others if they are all dead?
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How do you know there weren't any others if they are all dead?
How does a murder victim come forward? I think it's fair to say CB appears to be some kind of sexual deviant, yet only one alleged murder victim ?
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How does a murder victim come forward? I think it's fair to say CB appears to be some kind of sexual deviant, yet only one alleged murder victim ?
Even Murderers have to start somewhere.
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Even Murderers have to start somewhere.
Indeed they do but that was in 2007 allegedly, the charges for his sex crimes put dates between 2005 and 2017 no more alleged murders in between? even now with all the publicity since June 2020 .Wolters never claimed concrete evidence in the sex crimes but yet brings charges, concrete evidence in the Madeleine case and no charges, go figure.
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Indeed they do but that was in 2007 allegedly, the charges for his sex crimes put dates between 2005 and 2017 no more alleged murders in between? even now with all the publicity since June 2020 .Wolters never claimed concrete evidence in the sex crimes but yet brings charges, concrete evidence in the Madeleine case and no charges, go figure.
Brueckner was extraordinarily lucky to escape notice in 2007. Go figure that.
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How does a murder victim come forward? I think it's fair to say CB appears to be some kind of sexual deviant, yet only one alleged murder victim ?
Why do you have a problem with this? Is there a law that says a murderer must always commit more than one murder if not immediately apprehended? In any case he may have murdered others either before or after Madeleine, how can be sure he didn’t?
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Why do you have a problem with this? Is there a law that says a murderer must always commit more than one murder if not immediately apprehended? In any case he may have murdered others either before or after Madeleine, how can be sure he didn’t?
I'm sure you'll reveal how you know he killed Madeleine
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I'm sure you'll reveal how you know he killed Madeleine
When did I say I knew he killed Madeleine? Please don’t be a plonker.
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When did I say I knew he killed Madeleine? Please don’t be a plonker.
You said he may have murdered before or after Madeleine therefore indicating he murdered Madeline, cut the siping out.
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You said he may have murdered before or after Madeleine therefore indicating he murdered Madeline, cut the siping out.
I’ve no idea what siping is but your comprehension skills are sorely lacking. For the avoidance of any doubt: I do not KNOW he killed Madeleine, not did I ever say that I did. Now grow up.
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Quite obviously it is a waste of time posting links to intelligent points made by knowledgeable and intelligent commentators.
Allow me to reiterate some points made https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12454.msg693663#msg693663 Brueckner has a supportive following for one reason only and that is entirely because of the incapability some have of viewing his crimes for what they are and not through the prism of Madeleine McCann's case.
Whether or not Brueckner is guilty of crimes against Madeleine "He's a man that's been committing sexual crimes for long periods of time.
"The likelihood is that he would have committed many, many offences, most of them would have gone unrecorded and unreported. This would be just the tip of the iceberg for him." and last week the German authorities charged him with crimes against women and children "in Portugal, spanning 17 years between 2000 and 2017."
I don't know if it is normal behaviour for those leaping to the defence of the indisputably already convicted sexual predator and sadist Brueckner to throw their collective weight behind similar offenders facing further charges, only they will know.
But it is an interesting thought that on this Justice forum there are those for whom the only case to be made is for perpetrators only and incredibly, everything is the fault of the victim. Incredible but true.
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The only victim of a miscarriage of justice for some appears to be Brueckner.
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Brueckner is a terrible man, rapist & paedophile.
Behan was a bit stupid going to bed & leaving the door unlocked after she thought someone had been in her room.
I think both of these statements are true.
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The only victim of a miscarriage of justice for some appears to be Brueckner.
In the full knowledge of the crimes for which Brueckner is presently doing jail time, the spectacle of members leaping to judgement and rubbishing the nature of the present charges he faces is nothing short of extraordinary.
"'I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience.'" H. Behan https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548021/Investigation-reopened-rape-ordeal-linked-Madeleine-McCann-kidnap-suspect.html
I recommend those currently victim blaming Ms Behan follow the link I have provided and glance at the balconies at the hotel, one of which Brueckner is charged with climbing through complete with his rape kit, to carry out the despicable attack he is accused of.
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The only victim of a miscarriage of justice for some appears to be Brueckner.
If the Portuguese had carried out proper investigation into the sex crimes rampant in their jurisdiction there was a fair chance that forensic evidence from the Behan rape (2004) and the DM rape (2005) could have been linked and dealt with appropriately at the time.
If he hadn't been at large in 2007 he would have had the firm alibi his apologists claim for him.
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In the full knowledge of the crimes for which Brueckner is presently doing jail time, the spectacle of members leaping to judgement and rubbishing the nature of the present charges he faces is nothing short of extraordinary.
"'I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience.'" H. Behan https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548021/Investigation-reopened-rape-ordeal-linked-Madeleine-McCann-kidnap-suspect.html
I recommend those currently victim blaming Ms Behan follow the link I have provided and glance at the balconies at the hotel, one of which Brueckner is charged with climbing through complete with his rape kit, to carry out the despicable attack he is accused of.
Thanks for sharing that link.
The PJ did investigate, kept the case open for 8 months, obtained DNA evidence from the scene, checked it against the database & couldn't find a match, & contrary to earlier claims that Behan knew her attacker was German, she in fact told police he could be German, Belgian or Dutch.
So the only information the PJ had at the time was that a 6' masked & tight wearing German, Belgian or Dutch man had climbed into her room & raped her.
Not a lot they could do with that really.
Thankfully he's been stopped now, but this dreadful rape & prolonged investigation, at considerable financial expense to the PJ, MET & BKA, might never have happened at all if only she'd just locked her door.
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If the Portuguese had carried out proper investigation into the sex crimes rampant in their jurisdiction there was a fair chance that forensic evidence from the Behan rape (2004) and the DM rape (2005) could have been linked and dealt with appropriately at the time.
If he hadn't been at large in 2007 he would have had the firm alibi his apologists claim for him.
Neither Rape was dealt with appropriately. This beggars belief. In the end Germany has had to deal with this.
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Neither Rape was dealt with appropriately. This beggars belief. In the end Germany has had to deal with this.
Really? How so?
From the link Brietta shared it appears the PJ collected DNA evidence & checked it against the database.
They took a description of her attacker, being a 6' Dutch, German, or Belgian man.
How were the PJ supposed to know, at that time, that Brueckner, specifically, was Behan's rapist ?
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In the full knowledge of the crimes for which Brueckner is presently doing jail time, the spectacle of members leaping to judgement and rubbishing the nature of the present charges he faces is nothing short of extraordinary.
"'I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience.'" H. Behan https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548021/Investigation-reopened-rape-ordeal-linked-Madeleine-McCann-kidnap-suspect.html
I recommend those currently victim blaming Ms Behan follow the link I have provided and glance at the balconies at the hotel, one of which Brueckner is charged with climbing through complete with his rape kit, to carry out the despicable attack he is accused of.
It's a big place. I wonder if he knew which flat he was aiming for?
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It's a big place. I wonder if he knew which flat he was aiming for?
He knew her name somehow.
But then he could have gleaned that by rifling through her knicker draw when she failed to lock the door the first time.
Easy pickings for burglars & rapists, when tourists visit Portugal & leave their security concerns at home, which seems to be a rather common theme.
Oh well, we all have to live & learn in life, only some people have to learn a rather more unpleasant way.
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He knew her name somehow.
But then he could have gleaned that by rifling through her knicker draw when she failed to lock the door the first time.
Easy pickings for burglars & rapists, when tourists visit Portugal & leave their security concerns at home, which seems to be a rather common theme.
Oh well, we all have to live & learn in life, only some people have to learn a rather more unpleasant way.
Thank you for that explanation. Brueckner broke into her flat with only burglary on his mind and then discovered that she was a young woman living alone. So off he went to get his Rape Kit.
Well done you.
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Thank you for that explanation. Brueckner broke into her flat with only burglary on his mind and then discovered that she was a young woman living alone. So off he went to get his Rape Kit.
Well done you.
It wasn't much of a break in really was it.
Seems he didn't have to break anything, merely slide a patio door.
I'm curious about Diane M now.
Did Brueckner have to avoid motion detectors, hack a security code or dig a tunnel under the guard dogs & into her basement in order to gain access to her valuables, or was it just a gentle slide of a door?
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Neither Rape was dealt with appropriately. This beggars belief. In the end Germany has had to deal with this.
Germany dealt with the DM rape because the Portuguese didn't bother. Germany is now dealing with the HB rape because the Portuguese didn't bother. The Portuguese have a proven track record of negligence when it comes to dealing with crimes against women and children.
Perhaps Madeleine McCann and her mother were the victims of that culture. The path of least resistance was taken when Kate was set up as the patsy for Madeleine's disappearance.
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It's a big place. I wonder if he knew which flat he was aiming for?
No point in speculation as no doubt all will be revealed during his trial.
I think you are deliberately missing the point as far as the architecture of the building is concerned.
Look again https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548021/Investigation-reopened-rape-ordeal-linked-Madeleine-McCann-kidnap-suspect.html
Now post a 'put down' explaining exactly why Madeleine McCann suspect nicknamed 'The Climber' for holiday apartment breaking-in skills would have any qualms about breaking and entering Apt5 as the Bruecner apologists have suggested. https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-nicknamed-the-22702948
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Germany dealt with the DM rape because the Portuguese didn't bother. Germany is now dealing with the HB rape because the Portuguese didn't bother. The Portuguese have a proven track record of negligence when it comes to dealing with crimes against women and children.
Perhaps Madeleine McCann and her mother were the victims of that culture. The path of least resistance was taken when Kate was set up as the patsy for Madeleine's disappearance.
Why are you spreading myths?
In both cases you mention the PJ investigated, took descriptions of the attacker, gathered DNA & checked it against their database, Brueckner wasn't on the database, so how could the PJ have known he was the rapist?
Care to explain?
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No point in speculation as no doubt all will be revealed during his trial.
I think you are deliberately missing the point as far as the architecture of the building is concerned.
Look again https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548021/Investigation-reopened-rape-ordeal-linked-Madeleine-McCann-kidnap-suspect.html
Now post a 'put down' explaining exactly why Madeleine McCann suspect nicknamed 'The Climber' for holiday apartment breaking-in skills would have any qualms about breaking and entering Apt5 as the Bruecner apologists have suggested. https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-nicknamed-the-22702948
At the moment;
"The responsible criminal chamber will now examine in a so-called interim procedure whether the indictment will be admitted and whether the main proceedings will be opened."
https://www.rnd.de/panorama/fall-maddie-anklage-gegen-hauptverdaechtigen-christian-b-prozess-nicht-vor-2023-K3YQD3SUOENLJKF4GP27OPGUUQ.html
So a trial for all the offences he's accused of is not yet the certainty you seem to think it is.
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At the moment;
"The responsible criminal chamber will now examine in a so-called interim procedure whether the indictment will be admitted and whether the main proceedings will be opened."
https://www.rnd.de/panorama/fall-maddie-anklage-gegen-hauptverdaechtigen-christian-b-prozess-nicht-vor-2023-K3YQD3SUOENLJKF4GP27OPGUUQ.html
So a trial for all the offences he's accused of is not yet the certainty you seem to think it is.
I should get praying you all if I were you, although I don't think that will help. Even I can see that there are charges to answer.
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I should get praying you all if I were you, although I don't think that will help. Even I can see that there are charges to answer.
What are we supposed to be praying for exactly?
You think we want Brueckner to get away with all the raping & noncing?
Whatever gives you that Idea?
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Booorrring.
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Booorrring.
Well, I was planning on doing something else, but when I noticed two moderators here are insisting on saying nonsense like...
"Neither Rape was dealt with appropriately."
& "Germany dealt with the DM rape because the Portuguese didn't bother. Germany is now dealing with the HB rape because the Portuguese didn't bother."
& then one goes further still by implying we want the rapist to go free, I felt compelled to correct you both on the matter.
Perhaps if you could both cease from making false claims for the rest of the day I could get back to doing the laundry.
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At the moment;
"The responsible criminal chamber will now examine in a so-called interim procedure whether the indictment will be admitted and whether the main proceedings will be opened."
https://www.rnd.de/panorama/fall-maddie-anklage-gegen-hauptverdaechtigen-christian-b-prozess-nicht-vor-2023-K3YQD3SUOENLJKF4GP27OPGUUQ.html
So a trial for all the offences he's accused of is not yet the certainty you seem to think it is.
Going on precedent, I think your hopes regarding Brueckner evading the scrutiny of German justice may well be forlorn ones. He is well within the process already.
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Going on precedent, I think your hopes regarding Brueckner evading the scrutiny of German justice may well be forlorn ones. He is well within the process already.
And of course, Germany has no axe to grind.
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Going on precedent, I think your hopes regarding Brueckner evading the scrutiny of German justice may well be forlorn ones. He is well within the process already.
When & where exactly did G express any hope Brueckner evades justice?
Could you highlight the relevant passage in her post for me, because I couldn't see it?
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And of course, Germany has no axe to grind.
And they have always recognised that they faced a long drawn out investigative process as it has proved to be.
15 years after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal, German investigators give little hope for a quick clarification of the fate of the girl.
"The investigation will take some time," said Hans Christian Wolters of the public Prosecutor's office in Braunschweig, the German press Agency. An end to the investigations is currently not in sight.
https://www.rnd.de/panorama/der-mysterioese-fall-maddie-mccann-chronik-einer-tragoedie-ORS45TDJ5JCWPJW4C2ZZ5QRLPU.html
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No bias here. I'd still think she was a bit stupid for leaving the door unlocked in the first place though.
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No bias here. I'd still think she was a bit stupid for leaving the door unlocked in the first place though.
It’s like saying a woman who wears a mini skirt is ‘inviting’ sexual assault. Isn’t your argument a bit too simplistic?
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It’s like saying a woman who wears a mini skirt is ‘inviting’ sexual assault. Isn’t your argument a bit too simplistic?
Well, I haven't said any such thing.
But if mini skirts had locks they'd probably have them for a reason.
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It’s like saying a woman who wears a mini skirt is ‘inviting’ sexual assault. Isn’t your argument a bit too simplistic?
Spammy is a simple man.
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Spammy is a simple man.
How dare you assume my gender identity.
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Anyway, I've been balanced here.
I would fully support the right of both Diane M & Hazel B to have used lethal force to defend themselves in their home invasion situation. I think these two cases are prime examples of why women should be allowed to possess fire arms & should sleep with them under their pillow.
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How dare you assume my gender identity.
Sorry. Spammy is a simpleton.
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Sorry. Spammy is a simpleton.
Well now you're just insulting simpletons.
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It’s like saying a woman who wears a mini skirt is ‘inviting’ sexual assault. Isn’t your argument a bit too simplistic?
In my heart of hearts I cannot believe that the members who have come out so firmly on behalf of rapist and paedophile Brueckner, would throw their support behind him under any circumstances other than the fact Brueckner is the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
That in itself I think should raise some element of self questioning, the answers to which should rightly provoke contemplation.
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In my heart of hearts I cannot believe that the members who have come out so firmly on behalf of rapist and paedophile Brueckner, would throw their support behind him under any circumstances other than the fact Brueckner is the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
That in itself I think should raise some element of self questioning, the answers to which should rightly provoke contemplation.
Nobody here 'supports' him. OK? The guy is a rapist & paedophile. Nobody here supports rape or paedophilia (apart from spam when he is just wumming) it's just that some of us see no good reason to believe he abducted Maddie, or murdered her, or that Maddie was ever abducted in the first place.
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Going on precedent, I think your hopes regarding Brueckner evading the scrutiny of German justice may well be forlorn ones. He is well within the process already.
I have no hopes either way, but I do think people are getting over-excited and treating possibilities as foregone conclusions.
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I have no hopes either way, but I do think people are getting over-excited and treating possibilities as foregone conclusions.
I'm sorry, I see no way of interpreting this other than you wanting the vile rapist to go free.
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I wish him to go free if the judge so decides.
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I wish him to go free if the judge so decides.
Rape apologist.
Just kidding, but yes, that is the way the justice system works & we're getting well ahead of ourselves.
The rapist is innocent until proven guilty.
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I have no hopes either way, but I do think people are getting over-excited and treating possibilities as foregone conclusions.
I think only those who have demonstrably chosen their preferred corner advocating the rights for the rapist and paedophile Brueckner they deny for others might indeed appear to be getting over-excited in their hope that indictment (which they doubted would ever happen) might not proceed on the natural path to trial.
But I think they are going to be disappointed yet again.
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I think only those who have demonstrably chosen their preferred corner advocating the rights for the rapist and paedophile Brueckner they deny for others might indeed appear to be getting over-excited in their hope that indictment (which they doubted would ever happen) might not proceed on the natural path to trial.
But I think they are going to be disappointed yet again.
Not advocating rights, pointing out that they exist and apply to everyone; even those with previous convictions.
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I wish him to go free if the judge so decides.
The evidence will decide. So far, Brueckner hasn't had a lot of success along those lines in Germany which doesn't appear to have a statute of limitations as far as serious crime is concerned.
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Not advocating rights, pointing out that they exist and apply to everyone; even those with previous convictions.
Quite ~ unfortunately in this life actions speak louder than words.
I'm really intensely interested in what words Brueckner's legal team will use in explanation for his actions in the children's playground which is one of the recent charges against him.
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Quite ~ unfortunately in this life actions speak louder than words.
I'm really intensely interested in what words Brueckner's legal team will use in explanation for his actions in the children's playground which is one of the recent charges against him.
Why?
Seems a rather strange thing to be intensely interested in imo
Don't you have any hobbies that are more interesting?
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The Condominium Clube, Praia Da Rocha III... where Hazel Behan stayed on the 15/16th June 2004, the date of her assault.
A footbridge is visible in the distance which she said she crossed over on the way back to her apartment after a night out with boyfriend and others...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1219249,-8.5370756,3a,90y,305.77h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHbKXRbl52rax7lCj1ESgVA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1219249,-8.5370756,3a,90y,305.77h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHbKXRbl52rax7lCj1ESgVA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
and here... http://condominioclubepraiadarocha3.blogspot.com/2010/12/cpr3.html (http://condominioclubepraiadarocha3.blogspot.com/2010/12/cpr3.html)
In this drone footage of the whole complex (with igloos or alien spacecraft on each roof, can't decide which!), the footbridge crossing a major road can also be seen around the 0:30 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmao2XdDlZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmao2XdDlZk)
This is the Google streetview location showing water pipe valves for the complex in a side street as in a MailOnline photo...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1224719,-8.5373145,3a,90y,210.13h,86.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFfkEBtVQm0nYLFJIzFO1Jw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1224719,-8.5373145,3a,90y,210.13h,86.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFfkEBtVQm0nYLFJIzFO1Jw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Moving down the gradient, an outside view of a typical lower apartment with balcony which looks like it could easily be accessed via two horizontal drainpipes by a lean, fit and agile burglar plying his trade...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.122288,-8.5372175,3a,75y,257.09h,98.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sykQM5J-ywR5PTa8ADiK3tw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.122288,-8.5372175,3a,75y,257.09h,98.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sykQM5J-ywR5PTa8ADiK3tw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Some inside views of a Condominium Clube one-bed apartment (not necessarily exactly like Hazel B's, but typical), showing a bedroom which she said... 'could be partitioned off from the living area by a wide concertina door, a small breakfast bar fixed to the wall at one end with two posts "nailed" to the ground at the other, and a balcony with sliding door through which an intruder could easily enter'...
http://condominio-clube-praia-da-rocha-lll.portimao-hotels.com/en/#bkl (http://condominio-clube-praia-da-rocha-lll.portimao-hotels.com/en/#bkl)
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Quite ~ unfortunately in this life actions speak louder than words.
I'm really intensely interested in what words Brueckner's legal team will use in explanation for his actions in the children's playground which is one of the recent charges against him.
While only being mildly interested, much will depend on what is actually reported. It has been suggested that reporting might be somewhat limited and that the public may be excluded.
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Quite ~ unfortunately in this life actions speak louder than words.
I'm really intensely interested in what words Brueckner's legal team will use in explanation for his actions in the children's playground which is one of the recent charges against him.
That's the crime, imo, that is the most likely to be proved. We know he was there because he was arrested at the scene. I think it will be much harder to prove that CB raped an unknown elderly lady in her property.
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That's the crime, imo, that is the most likely to be proved. We know he was there because he was arrested at the scene. I think it will be much harder to prove that CB raped an unknown elderly lady in her property.
It very much depends on the evidence - have you seen it?
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It very much depends on the evidence - have you seen it?
Are we to assume that elderly ladies tell lies about being raped?
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Are we to assume that elderly ladies tell lies about being raped?
If you are a certain prolific poster, posting mental comments, hardly can see ppl randomly lying about this stuff. However, a certain individual postig thousands of posts and lies, but ppl support that.
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Are we to assume that elderly ladies tell lies about being raped?
Are you assuming they have identified this elderly lady? They seem to be guessing her age though?
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That's the crime, imo, that is the most likely to be proved. We know he was there because he was arrested at the scene. I think it will be much harder to prove that CB raped an unknown elderly lady in her property.
I agree it will be incredibly difficult to prove the rape of the elderly woman. Whatever the circumstances many rape cases are never proven, indeed many never even come to trial. Kudos to the BKA for going that extra mile to get evidence to justify charges being made in the interests of justice.
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That's the crime, imo, that is the most likely to be proved. We know he was there because he was arrested at the scene. I think it will be much harder to prove that CB raped an unknown elderly lady in her property.
Don't you think it would depend on the evidence
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
Brueckner is not presently indicted with the abduction of a three year old.
What fo you think the five cases to which you refer - whether opportunistic or planned - have in common each with the other?
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Brueckner is not presently indicted with the abduction of a three year old.
What fo you think the five cases to which you refer - whether opportunistic or planned - have in common each with the other?
They all happened in Portugal?
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
Thanks for the Link. Have you read it?
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Brueckner is not presently indicted with the abduction of a three year old.
What fo you think the five cases to which you refer - whether opportunistic or planned - have in common each with the other?
One end of the age spectrum to the other? Is there anything this psychopath wouldn't do?
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Thanks for the Link. Have you read it?
Yes. Whipping girls, raping women, dropping his pants & masturbating in front of kids.
Being a McCann sceptic, & therefore Brueckner supporter, is there some expectation I should excuse or support such behaviour?
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One end of the age spectrum to the other? Is there anything this psychopath wouldn't do?
Murder someone?
He seems to have let all his victims live.
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Murder someone?
He seems to have let all his victims live.
Has he? You know that how?
Ian Huntley hadn't murdered anyone first sexually assaulting girls but then he murdered Holly and Jessica.
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
He was getting more and more depraved, acting out his fantasies. All could have been leading up to the abduction of Madeleine, wanting to take something small was one of his fantasies.
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Are we to assume that elderly ladies tell lies about being raped?
Well Amaral seems to think there was no rape of the elderly woman.
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
What was he doing between 2007 and 2017 , long period between two cases.
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Well Amaral seems to think there was no rape of the elderly woman.
Which elderly woman did you have in mind - the dead American one or the unidentified one allegedly seen on a video that no longer exists ?
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His MO from the 5 cases current being brought to court don't appear to have much in common with an abduction of a 3 year old.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/ (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/11/finally-five-formal-sex-charges-laid-on-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner/)
No? They demonstrate a propensity for extreme sexual violence, entering premises illegally, an interest in young girls, which of these things is not compatible with abducting a child for sexual gratification?
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What was he doing between 2007 and 2017 , long period between two cases.
Isn't that the time period between him being released from a Portuguese prison and being arrested in Germany ?
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Well Amaral seems to think there was no rape of the elderly woman.
Best blame the elderly women then, for making it up.
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Has he? You know that how?
Ian Huntley hadn't murdered anyone first sexually assaulting girls but then he murdered Holly and Jessica.
Do you have any particular murders in mind that he's supposed to have committed?
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No? They demonstrate a propensity for extreme sexual violence, entering premises illegally, an interest in young girls, which of these things is not compatible with abducting a child for sexual gratification?
I don't think the sexual violence was especially extreme. None of his victims seem to have suffered any serious physical injuries.
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I mean before Wayne Couzens abducted, raped and murdered Sarah Everard the worst he'd ever done before that was to get his cock out in MacDonalds as far as I'm aware. Perfectly normal, untroubling behaviour as far as some trolls are concerned I expect...
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I don't think the sexual violence was especially extreme. None of his victims seem to have suffered any serious physical injuries.
Physical injuries heal, mental injuries on the other hand don't.
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Which elderly woman did you have in mind - the dead American one or the unidentified one allegedly seen on a video that no longer exists ?
The woman who is now deceased. Had to move away from Portugal because she no longer felt safe.
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Do you have any particular murders in mind that he's supposed to have committed?
You said he seemed to have left all his victims alive, you don't know if there are more victims and if there are you don't know if he left all of them alive.
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The woman who is now deceased. Had to move away from Portugal because she no longer felt safe.
Ah well she's dead now anyway so he can't hurt her anymore.
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You said he seemed to have left all his victims alive, you don't know if there are more victims and if there are you don't know if he left all of them alive.
The presumption of murder?
Interesting concept. Doesn't seem very fair though.
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Well Amaral seems to think there was no rape of the elderly woman.
I think he said the medics found no evidence that she had been raped. I'm not sure if that means no evidence of intimacy or no evidence of force.
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Physical injuries heal, mental injuries on the other hand don't.
I see the troll is still trying to minimise Bruckner's crimes. What a POS he is. And Bruckner.
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Physical injuries heal, mental injuries on the other hand don't.
He seems to have threatened, tied up, whipped, humiliated & degraded his victims. I'm sure it was a most harrowing experience, absolutely. But not especially physically damaging.
Still, maybe they should have kept firearms if they insisted on leaving their doors unlocked.
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I see the troll is still trying to minimise Bruckner's crimes. What a POS he is. And Bruckner.
No, I think some people are trying to maximise his crimes.
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I think he said the medics found no evidence that she had been raped. I'm not sure if that means no evidence of intimacy or no evidence of force.
There's certainly evidence of force... Photos.. Rape can be oral... He was convicted on strong evidence
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At least what is it now, 3 or 4 times, having tied up these women, raped & humiliated them for hours, Brueckner was in an ideal position to murder these women by any means at hand, & he let's them all go free.
That suggests to me an aversion to murder. He might joke about it in a chat room, but doesn't seem to have got round to it, despite multiple opportunities.
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Brueckner's (alleged) sex crimes are terrible. But for me, they are certainly not the worst imaginable. I can think of much worse. Not sure I'd trust him to take my granny shopping or babysit the kids though.
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I think he said the medics found no evidence that she had been raped. I'm not sure if that means no evidence of intimacy or no evidence of force.
Hang on. You don't believe Amaral when he says the police knocked on Bruckner's door so why are you giving this pronouncement of his any credibility whatsoever?
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Brueckner's (alleged) sex crimes are terrible. But for me, they are certainly not the worst imaginable. I can think of much worse. Not sure I'd trust him to take my granny shopping or babysit the kids though.
I think what he put people through if true is pretty henious, he seems to be a chancer in life. May not be the worst but its pretty pretty disgusting abusive and bad. Comparw that to checking on a child. Henious criticism of the mccanns but none of bruckner. Is this because ppl r fully commited in a belief that it was the parents so no other alternative is possibpe so no criticism elsewhere?
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I think what he put people through if true is pretty henious, he seems to be a chancer in life. May not be the worst but its pretty pretty disgusting abusive and bad. Comparw that to checking on a child. Henious criticism of the mccanns but none of bruckner. Is this because ppl r fully commited in a belief that it was the parents so no other alternative is possibpe so no criticism elsewhere?
I think you might have got it.
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Hang on. You don't believe Amaral when he says the police knocked on Bruckner's door so why are you giving this pronouncement of his any credibility whatsoever?
Well he didn't have a door.
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I think what he put people through if true is pretty henious, he seems to be a chancer in life. May not be the worst but its pretty pretty disgusting abusive and bad. Comparw that to checking on a child. Henious criticism of the mccanns but none of bruckner. Is this because ppl r fully commited in a belief that it was the parents so no other alternative is possibpe so no criticism elsewhere?
No, it's people trying to compare apples and oranges, which are two different and unconnected things.
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I think what he put people through if true is pretty henious, he seems to be a chancer in life. May not be the worst but its pretty pretty disgusting abusive and bad. Comparw that to checking on a child. Henious criticism of the mccanns but none of bruckner. Is this because ppl r fully commited in a belief that it was the parents so no other alternative is possibpe so no criticism elsewhere?
I have criticised him. I wasn't endorsing him when I said he's a burgling rapist & paedophile. That's what he is & I don't see such things as positive attributes personally. I just happen to prefer him to the McCanns. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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No, it's people trying to compare apples and oranges, which are two different and unconnected things.
Well, I think the McCanns had an obligation to care for their children.
Brueckner & every other burglar rapist & paedophile of this world are under no obligation to care for anyone, as far as I'm aware, & if people want to leave their home security & safety to chance that any Brueckners aren't in the locality, going to bed or going out & leaving their doors unlocked & such, well I suppose that's their choice & I should respect that. Not sure it's a practice I'll be taking up anytime soon though.
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Well he didn't have a door.
Don’t be silly. Everyone has a door unless they’re sleeping on the streets.
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No, it's people trying to compare apples and oranges, which are two different and unconnected things.
It is true though that sceptics are more interested in Brückner’s rights than the McCanns and do go out of their way to downplay his crimes - why is that, perhaps you can explain?
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It is true though that sceptics are more interested in Brückner’s rights than the McCanns and do go out of their way to downplay his crimes - why is that, perhaps you can explain?
It's more about your perceptions than about facts. I don't think people downplay Brueckner's crimes; you do. I'm not disinterested in the McCann's rights; you just think I am.
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It's more about your perceptions than about facts. I don't think people downplay Brueckner's crimes; you do. I'm not disinterested in the McCann's rights; you just think I am.
Yes people DO downplay Bruckner’s crimes - there are numerous examples on this forum, even as recently as today where his crimes were described as not all that violent (for example). Also, We have had someone on here suggest that his crimes against children were not that serious and that the woman he raped may have invited him in for sex.. And I have seen you stand up for Brückner’s rights but never once have I seen you show any defence of the McCanns rights not to be defamed or accused of terible crimes - happy to be corrected if you’d like to provide a cite.
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Well he didn't have a door.
A camper van has a door.
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A camper van has a door.
If you live a peripatetic lifestyle, you still have a door.
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Yes people DO downplay Bruckner’s crimes - there are numerous examples on this forum, even as recently as today where his crimes were described as not all that violent (for example). And I have seen you stand up for Brückner’s rights but never once have I seen you show any defence of the McCanns rights not to be defamed or accused of terible crimes - happy to be corrected if you’d like to provide a cite.
Well they weren't all that violent.
It appears he didn't punch or choke his victims, for example, or chop them with the 12" machete he had to hand.
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For anyone who doesn’t understand what is meant by a violent crime:
Violent crime
A violent crime is when someone physically hurts or threatens to hurt someone, and also includes crimes where a weapon is used. The police will record a crime as violent if the offender clearly intended or intends to physically harm you, regardless of whether or not it results in a physical injury.
Violent crimes can include:
assault
gun and knife crime
sexual violence (such as rape or sexual assault)
alcohol and drug-related violence
gang violence
domestic violence
hate crimes (disability, faith, gender, gender identity, race or sexual orientation)
robbery
murder or manslaughter
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Well they weren't all that violent.
It appears he didn't punch or choke his victims, for example, or chop them with the 12" machete he had to hand.
I'm glad you didn't call it his 12 inch chopper. That might have been interpreted differently 8(0(*
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I'm glad you didn't call it his 12 inch chopper. That might have been interpreted differently 8(0(*
Yes, keep on making light of violent rape, you and your pal are doing a great job of making my point for me. 8((()*/
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For anyone who doesn’t understand what is meant by a violent crime:
Violent crime
A violent crime is when someone physically hurts or threatens to hurt someone, and also includes crimes where a weapon is used. The police will record a crime as violent if the offender clearly intended or intends to physically harm you, regardless of whether or not it results in a physical injury.
Violent crimes can include:
assault
gun and knife crime
sexual violence (such as rape or sexual assault)
alcohol and drug-related violence
gang violence
domestic violence
hate crimes (disability, faith, gender, gender identity, race or sexual orientation)
robbery
murder or manslaughter
You described his crimes as extreme sexual violence.
Doesn't seem that extreme to me.
Some people consent to being tied up & whipped.
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Yes, keep on making light of violent rape, you and your pal are doing a great job of making my point for me. 8((()*/
Is there such a thing as non violent rape?
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Yes, keep on making light of violent rape, you and your pal are doing a great job of making my point for me. 8((()*/
What would you prefer us to do?
Condemn his crimes in the strongest possible terms, join hands & pray for his victims?
What difference would that make to anything, in the grand scheme of things? It wouldn't un-rape anybody.
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If you live a peripatetic lifestyle, you still have a door.
Anthro, I know you to be brilliant at finding info and pictures.
Maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but something is bugging me.
Bruckner came to the Algarve in 1995. Rui Pedro Mendoca went missing in March 1998
(https://www.oxygen.com/sites/oxygen/files/styles/blog-post-embedded--tablet-1_5x/public/2019-03/rui-pedro-fb.png?itok=l24aA0hV)
Sorry the images are so big. I don't know how to make them a more reasonable size.
IIRC there was a photo published of Rui looking very distraught with both his hands tied up high to a big wooden vertical beam. Bruckner has a beam like that in his cottage doesn't he? Do you know when he took possession of that cottage?
Anyone else know? I am probably barking up the wrong tree, but years ago there definitely was a photo of that type. Poor Pedro.
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'twas a different beam...
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/ (https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/)
to this one in Brueckner's rented cottage...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html)
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At least what is it now, 3 or 4 times, having tied up these women, raped & humiliated them for hours, Brueckner was in an ideal position to murder these women by any means at hand, & he let's them all go free.
That suggests to me an aversion to murder. He might joke about it in a chat room, but doesn't seem to have got round to it, despite multiple opportunities.
That was because the evil coward had a mask on, they didn't see his face only his eyes.
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Well he didn't have a door.
Didn't bother to look for him did they? Yet Amaral says they ruled him out, how?
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He seems to have threatened, tied up, whipped, humiliated & degraded his victims. I'm sure it was a most harrowing experience, absolutely. But not especially physically damaging.
Still, maybe they should have kept firearms if they insisted on leaving their doors unlocked.
What in a lovely child friendly area? CB had a gun though I wonder why?
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What in a lovely child friendly area? CB had a gun though I wonder why?
Target shooting, Self defence, likes guns, wanted to shoot someone.
Those are the possible explanations I can think of. Can you add to the list?
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Armed robbery, Bank job. Prop for a movie he was making. There's probably more.
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Target shooting, Self defence, likes guns, wanted to shoot someone.
Those are the possible explanations I can think of. Can you add to the list?
Slight inferiority complex?
I think that was a line from a James Bond movie regarding him carrying a gun.
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That was because the evil coward had a mask on, they didn't see his face only his eyes.
But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
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But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
He shows them his secret hardcore porn stash, tells them about the little girl he abducted & murdered & they go squealing to the police about it.
Some friends they were.
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But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
Well they found the video amongst his possessions and the video showed the interior of his house did it not?
And if Martin Smith can recognise a virtual stranger from the way he carries a child I'm sure they could recognise their friend even if his face was covered. And - in any case - CB was found guilty of a very similar rape not on the strength of their testimony alone but on physical DNA evidence which I believe also exists in the HB case.
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What in a lovely child friendly area? CB had a gun though I wonder why?
Since when have holiday reps been recommended to carry guns in the Algarve? I didn't realise it was quite such a lawless shithole!
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Since when have holiday reps been recommended to carry guns in the Algarve? I didn't realise it was quite such a lawless shithole!
Well, I'd recommend it to anyone who chooses to sleep with their doors unlocked.
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'twas a different beam...
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/ (https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/)
to this one in Brueckner's rented cottage...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html)
Heart-breaking reading.
But if the allegation is true it seems the Portuguese police were running true to form.
Snip
"On September 1 of the same year, British police, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies from 13 other countries, conducted an operation code-named Operation Cathedral, which aimed to break up a large, international group dealing with children's p*rnography. The group was known as "The Wonderland Club" and operated mainly on the Internet. During the operation, police arrested 104 suspects in 13 countries, including Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. At that time, more than 750,000 films and photos containing about 1,263 children were seized. Among them was also Rui Pedro.
Images of the children were submitted to Interpol and the parents of the missing children were asked to help identify them. Philomena Teixeira was also asked to look at photos and recordings. On several of them, the woman immediately recognized her son. According to some sources, there was a ped*fil belonging to The Wonderland Club in Portugal at the time of Rui's disappearance, but Portuguese police allegedly rejected the evidence."
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/
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Heart-breaking reading.
But if the allegation is true it seems the Portuguese police were running true to form.
Snip
"On September 1 of the same year, British police, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies from 13 other countries, conducted an operation code-named Operation Cathedral, which aimed to break up a large, international group dealing with children's p*rnography. The group was known as "The Wonderland Club" and operated mainly on the Internet. During the operation, police arrested 104 suspects in 13 countries, including Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. At that time, more than 750,000 films and photos containing about 1,263 children were seized. Among them was also Rui Pedro.
Images of the children were submitted to Interpol and the parents of the missing children were asked to help identify them. Philomena Teixeira was also asked to look at photos and recordings. On several of them, the woman immediately recognized her son. According to some sources, there was a ped*fil belonging to The Wonderland Club in Portugal at the time of Rui's disappearance, but Portuguese police allegedly rejected the evidence."
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/
This only gets worse for Portugal. As if this was even possible.
How everyone laughed fifteen years ago when some bright spark said that Portugal was crawling with Paedophiles.
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This only gets worse for Portugal. As if this was even possible.
How everyone laughed fifteen years ago when some bright spark said that Portugal was crawling with Paedophiles.
Was your knowledgeable bright spark Gerry McCann? Within an hour of his daughter's disappearance he revealed his knowledge of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal.
Let's not forget Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. All with members of the Wonderland Club also.
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Was your knowledgeable bright spark Gerry McCann? Within an hour of his daughter's disappearance he revealed his knowledge of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal.
Let's not forget Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. All with members of the Wonderland Club also.
No. It was someone Posting on a Forum. And we happen to be discussing Portugal.
Besides, Gerry McCann wasn't wrong; was he.
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No. It was someone Posting on a Forum. And we happen to be discussing Portugal.
Besides, Gerry McCann wasn't wrong; was he.
Depends on the question
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But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
Videos are made for a reason - one of which was and is, sharing with a select group of international friends.
But if friends saw a video of an unknown person being brutally raped and informed the police and the police took the allegation seriously enough to investigate what might the result have been?
The difference is that on this occasion the offence was reported to the German police who exercised due diligence.
They went through case files and found an account of a rape which independently corroborated the account made in the witness statements. This enabled the victim to be traced and the rest as they say, is history.
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Was your knowledgeable bright spark Gerry McCann? Within an hour of his daughter's disappearance he revealed his knowledge of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal.
Let's not forget Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. All with members of the Wonderland Club also.
But NOT Portugal where the police allegedly rejected the evidence.
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Videos are made for a reason - one of which was and is, sharing with a select group of international friends.
But if friends saw a video of an unknown person being brutally raped and informed the police and the police took the allegation seriously enough to investigate what might the result have been?
The difference is that on this occasion the offence was reported to the German police who exercised due diligence.
They went through case files and found an account of a rape which independently corroborated the account made in the witness statements. This enabled the victim to be traced and the rest as they say, is history.
Portuguese case files?
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But NOT Portugal where the police allegedly rejected the evidence.
'according to some sources'
So says the article you linked.
My sources tell me it isn't true.
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This only gets worse for Portugal. As if this was even possible.
How everyone laughed fifteen years ago when some bright spark said that Portugal was crawling with Paedophiles.
I think it's a credit to Portugal that despite the place allegedly crawling with paedos they have so few child abductions.
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But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
Here's one I touched on in a previous post'
Convicted by chance
The fact that the rapist was convicted at that time was due to a coincidence: According to the "Braunschweiger Zeitung", two acquaintances of B. belonging to the petty criminal milieu broke into his apartment and stole a video camera. On the tapes of the camera was the heinous rape of the 72-year-old in her home in Portugal.
The burglars turned to the police shocked by the recordings. The officials again examined all known cases from the region and came across the American. Although the woman had not recognized him, a body hair B. was fatal. This was found on the bed sheet of the victim, as "image" reported. This later led to the conviction of B ...
https://www.oe24.at/welt/fall-maddie-einbrecher-ueberfuehrten-christian-b-als-vergewaltiger/432537029
Think about this very carefully before the next time you slur Gerry McCann ~- in 2005 DM reported the vicious rape Brueckner inflicted on her in
- had the Portuguese police "examined all known cases from the region"
- they would have found in the files the 2004 documented rape of HB
- they might even have noticed the similarity of the rapist's MO as described in evidence by both women
- they should have been able to access DNA from both cases any of which had not been destroyed by the investigators by then.
Had the Portuguese treated what happened to HB with respect and had they carried out procedural linking of like crimes, I think there is a very fair chance that there would be no McCann fora on the internet today. Because Brueckner would most likely have been doing time in 2007 and the McCanns would have holidayed and returned home as the same family unit it should have been.
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This slurring of Gerry McCann is utterly pathetic and with no substance whatsoever.
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This slurring of Gerry McCann is utterly pathetic and with no substance whatsoever.
Well, he was overheard mentioning paedophile gangs.
How did he know about their existence?
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Here's one I touched on in a previous post'
Convicted by chance
The fact that the rapist was convicted at that time was due to a coincidence: According to the "Braunschweiger Zeitung", two acquaintances of B. belonging to the petty criminal milieu broke into his apartment and stole a video camera. On the tapes of the camera was the heinous rape of the 72-year-old in her home in Portugal.
The burglars turned to the police shocked by the recordings. The officials again examined all known cases from the region and came across the American. Although the woman had not recognized him, a body hair B. was fatal. This was found on the bed sheet of the victim, as "image" reported. This later led to the conviction of B ...
https://www.oe24.at/welt/fall-maddie-einbrecher-ueberfuehrten-christian-b-als-vergewaltiger/432537029
Think about this very carefully before the next time you slur Gerry McCann ~- in 2005 DM reported the vicious rape Brueckner inflicted on her in
- had the Portuguese police "examined all known cases from the region"
- they would have found in the files the 2004 documented rape of HB
- they might even have noticed the similarity of the rapist's MO as described in evidence by both women
- they should have been able to access DNA from both cases any of which had not been destroyed by the investigators by then.
Had the Portuguese treated what happened to HB with respect and had they carried out procedural linking of like crimes, I think there is a very fair chance that there would be no McCann fora on the internet today. Because Brueckner would most likely have been doing time in 2007 and the McCanns would have holidayed and returned home as the same family unit it should have been.
You are outright accusing Brueckner of abducting Maddie now.
This is libel.
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Was your knowledgeable bright spark Gerry McCann? Within an hour of his daughter's disappearance he revealed his knowledge of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal.
Let's not forget Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. All with members of the Wonderland Club also.
Do you have a cite please? And if he did, what would be your issue with this? I’m pretty sure there are paedo gangs operating in most European countries, so….?
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This slurring of Gerry McCann is utterly pathetic and with no substance whatsoever.
It keeps little minds amused though, and has done for 15+ years.
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I think it's a credit to Portugal that despite the place allegedly crawling with paedos they have so few child abductions.
Unless this is true -
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html
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Well, he was overheard mentioning paedophile gangs.
How did he know about their existence?
Someone must have told him obviously.
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Also present at the webinar, organised by the Portuguese Association for Missing Children (APCD), the president of the Institute for Child Support (IAC), Dulce Rocha, drew attention to the "major phenomena that are at the root of the disappearance" of children, such as sexual exploitation and human trafficking.
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Unless this is true -
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html
The link you shared says 30 children had gone missing in 5 years.
It doesn't say anything about them having been abducted though.
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Someone must have told him obviously.
But when?
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Gerry may well have read about this in the UK newspapers prior to Madeleine’s disappearance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/27/childprotection.uk
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Gerry may well have read about this in the UK newspapers prior to Madeleine’s disappearance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/27/childprotection.uk
He probably did.
This is shocking -
What has most shocked the Portuguese have been the revelations that systematic sexual abuse of children at the home had allegedly been going on for more than 20 years and had been known to police and other authorities for most of that time.
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Gerry may well have read about this in the UK newspapers prior to Madeleine’s disappearance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/27/childprotection.uk
Did we ever hear the end of that? I don't think so.
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But his friends recognised him, allegedly.
D'you know what the most ludicrous thing is about making any sort of argument with you regarding your combined defence of Brueckner and the defence of the Portuguese police who have done little to clear him and other sexual predators like him from their streets is that you are doing it on this particular thread.
Under discussion here are another five sexual assault cases. All of which occurred in Portugal. None of which merited any one being indicted - it seems "The Invisible Man Strikes Again! Sigh!" was the rule of the day as far as sexual predators and anyone trying to stop them is concerned.
Cradled between the DM case and Madeleine's case which were and are German initiatives because the Portuguese didn't bother are these FIVE more German cases which confirm the phenomenon.
You really do not have a leg to stand on as you strive to defend the indefensible while never missing any opportunity to stir the sceptic pool of Mccann slurs as a little throwaway innuendo here or there.
I think it quite frightening that attitudes such as that prevail amongst us.
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Did we ever hear the end of that? I don't think so.
I think one or two inconsequential heads did roll along the gutters. But it is rumoured "the elite" amongst them remained as they always have been, "untouchable".
I think the suicide rate is very high amongst the used, abused and discarded children.
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I think one or two inconsequential heads did roll along the gutters. But it is rumoured "the elite" amongst them remained as they always have been, "untouchable".
I think the suicide rate is very high amongst the used, abused and discarded children.
I have to wonder if anyone will ever do anything about the disgraceful State of Portugal and it's Police Forces.
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I have to wonder if anyone will ever do anything about the disgraceful State of Portugal and it's Police Forces.
I have to wonder why it seems to cause you concern
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I have to wonder why it seems to cause you concern
Abuse of any kind, especially children does offend me. And I don't much care about where it happens.
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Portuguese case files?
What a disingenuous post.
"The difference is that on this occasion the offence was reported to the German police who exercised due diligence.
They went through case files and found an account of a rape which independently corroborated the account made in the witness statements. This enabled the victim to be traced and the rest as they say, is history."
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12454.msg693843#msg693843
What files do you suppose? The Germans knew absolutely nothing about this aggravated rape. But when the witnesses to the video content made their allegation about Brueckner - they made it their business to investigate to find out its veracity, which they did.
The Portuguese had been sitting on the knowledge for twelve years. Just as they had been sitting on the knowledge of a rape with the same rape MO which had occurred a year previously.
If you cannot see the significance - very much your problem and nobody else's.
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Abuse of any kind, especially children does offend me. And I don't much care about where it happens.
You won't be too happy about this then -
Hertfordshire police officer convicted of raping child after victim’s testimony
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/19/hertfordshire-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-child-victim-powerful-testimony
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You won't be too happy about this then -
Hertfordshire police officer convicted of raping child after victim’s testimony
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/19/hertfordshire-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-child-victim-powerful-testimony
He has been found guilty by the right authorities. Such a disgrace about Portugal.
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You won't be too happy about this then -
Hertfordshire police officer convicted of raping child after victim’s testimony
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/19/hertfordshire-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-child-victim-powerful-testimony
Of course no one would be happy about that I should imagine.
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Of course no one would be happy about that I should imagine.
These things happen the world over.
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These things happen the world over.
Ph that’s alright then. *%87
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And this
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/17/hundreds-of-met-police-officers-not-sacked-for-serious-offences-finds-review
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And this
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/17/hundreds-of-met-police-officers-not-sacked-for-serious-offences-finds-review
Oh yes, what a lovely example of whataboutery, well played.
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Oh yes, what a lovely example of whataboutery, well played.
What is it they say about people in glass houses?
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What is it they say about people in glass houses?
More whataboutery, you little tinker…
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Oh yes, what a lovely example of whataboutery, well played.
It's never too late to right a wrong or to officially recognise that one has occurred. At least our police are capable of clearing up the mess by themselves without the necessity of reliance on coppers from a different national jurisdiction to do it for them.
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https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/19/exclusive-rape-victim-and-locals-clamour-for-new-look-at-any-crimes-that-may-have-involved-german-maddie-suspect-in-spain/
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https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/10/19/exclusive-rape-victim-and-locals-clamour-for-new-look-at-any-crimes-that-may-have-involved-german-maddie-suspect-in-spain/
I am not a subscriber, Anthro.
Are people insisting the inquiry into Brueckner is extended to include Spain?
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I am not a subscriber, Anthro.
Are people insisting the inquiry into Brueckner is extended to include Spain?
Yes. And Italy as well, although I could only read the headlines about Italy.
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Gerry may well have read about this in the UK newspapers prior to Madeleine’s disappearance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/27/childprotection.uk
So Gerry reads about a paedophile scandal in Portugal, then decides he wants to take his kids on holiday there?
Not only that, but decides it would be a good idea to leave the kids alone in the unlocked apartment during the holiday?
Crikey, well that's not only negligent but thoroughly reckless IMO
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I have to wonder why it seems to cause you concern
Because we've got to protect the children!!
We can kill them inside the w..b, that's entirely acceptable.
But from the moment they plop out, to the age of 16, they are the most precious things on the planet.
After the age of 16 we can stop caring about them as much though.
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Abuse of any kind, especially children does offend me. And I don't much care about where it happens.
But you only ever complain about Portugal?
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These things happen the world over.
Do you think I don't know that?
This is a Madeleine McCann debating site. Madeleine disappeared in Portugal. I am interested in what went on in Portugal.
The discussion was how did Gerry know about the Paedophile gangs, I don't know how items from the UK have anything to do with that.
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Do you think I don't know that?
This is a Madeleine McCann debating site. Madeleine disappeared in Portugal. I am interested in what went on in Portugal.
The discussion was how did Gerry know about the Paedophile gangs, I don't know how items from the UK have anything to do with that.
Kate was ridiculed when she wrote about the assaults carried out on children in their holiday accomodation while their parents slept under the same roof.
Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a Portuguese holiday resort nearly seven years ago say a lone intruder sexually assaulted five girls aged between seven and 10 in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve
I can see why the details piqued the interest of Scotland Yard detectives and now that I am more familiar with Portuguese police attitudes towards women and children I can see why these crimes were tolerated.
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Here's a prime example of the crazy way "justice" works in Portugal. In UK, convicts remain behind bars pending an appeal hearing. Not in Portugal. It's almost a blessing for CB's victims that he was never tried in Portugal.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/womans-horror-man-who-kidnapped-26086715
Donald Fernandes, who is also a convicted killer is now free to walk the streets despite kidnapping and raping British woman Lauren Caton who was working in Portugal as a bar worker at the time of the attack
ByDan WarburtonNews ReporterGerard CouzensNews Correspondent
22:29, 29 Jan 2022UPDATED22:36, 29 Jan 2022
A British bar worker in Portugal has told of her horror after the brute who kidnapped and raped her was freed from jail after just six months.
Donald Fernandes, who is also a convicted killer, was given the shock release from his 14-year sentence thanks to a legal loophole.
He is now free to walk the streets while his appeal is reviewed – on the condition that he signs in each day at a police station.
But terrified victim Lauren Caton, 21, who has bravely waived her anonymity, told the Sunday People: “I’m absolutely devastated.
“I’m still healing from the trauma I went through and I will be for the rest of my life. Hearing he’s free is like having salt poured on an open wound.”
Lauren was 19 and working in the Algarve when she was kidnapped in May 2019 by building firm boss Fernandes, who held her for nine days.
She was only saved after handing a Burger King worker a scribbled note on a napkin begging for help during an outing in Faro.
Fernandes’ release was triggered when an appeal judge agreed to review his conviction.
That meant the conviction was “suspended” and he could only be held as a remand prisoner.
But he had already served more time than the maximum allowed for non-convicted suspects under local laws.
Fernandes, 37, will be sent back to jail only if the judge rules his original conviction was correct.
He earlier served seven years in jail for manslaughter in his native Canada.
Fernandes was the getaway driver in a bungled 2003 robbery in Montreal in which a pensioner was shot dead. He moved to Portugal but was jailed last July.
Lauren, who is originally from South East London and still lives abroad, said: “I stand by everything I told the police and the courts that formed part of my evidence.
“No one’s told me why the appeal is going to be considered.
“I understand someone has the right to appeal. But when we’re talking about something as serious as rape and kidnap it seems astonishing to me that he can be back on the streets before that appeal has been resolved.”
Fernandes pleaded his innocence in court, claiming Lauren and another accuser, a Brazilian woman he met and befriended before targeting the British teenager, knew each other and had concocted a plan to frame him.
Fernandes was convicted of six rapes, kidnaps, assaults and threats.
The trial judges ruled it had been proven Fernandes had threatened to “pimp, kill and bury” Lauren after offering her a lift home following a late-night drink.
They also said he had cut her neck with a knife, kicked and punched her and sexually abused her at his villa in Benfarras. The Brazilian woman said she had been made to eat soap and had her head pushed down the toilet in the same house days earlier.
Judges branded his treatment of both as inhumane and degrading.
Lauren was freed after handing a note to a restaurant worker, which said: “Don’t make a scene but I am a missing person. Please call police. Please act normal.”
She branded Fernandes a “psychopath with a Jekyll and Hyde personality”. Fernandes protested his innocence throughout his on-off trial which started in December 2020 in Faro and finished with his conviction by a panel of three judges last July.
Officials have confirmed the appeal hearing will take place behind closed doors in the southern city of Evora.
No date has yet been set.
Fernandes has had to surrender his passport in the meantime.
His lawyer Joao Nabais, who accused lead judge Ana Lucia Cruz of a lack of impartiality before the guilty verdict, has yet to comment.
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It only gets worse. How many more of them are there still wandering around?
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Mean while in the uk we let them go on holiday before sentencing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11333049/Sex-offender-allowed-two-week-holiday-Greece-sentenced-crimes.html
Sex offender, 48, who admitted assaulting two young girls can still go on two-week HOLIDAY to Greek Island Kos before he is sentenced
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Mean while in the uk we let them go on holiday before sentencing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11333049/Sex-offender-allowed-two-week-holiday-Greece-sentenced-crimes.html
Sex offender, 48, who admitted assaulting two young girls can still go on two-week HOLIDAY to Greek Island Kos before he is sentenced
That's equally disgusting, although he's not yet been sentenced. Have judges taken leave of their senses?
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That's equally disgusting, although he's not yet been sentenced. Have judges taken leave of their senses?
You have to wonder.
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However, this is a Thread about Brueckner and crimes in Portugal which went entirely unnoticed.
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However, this is a Thread about Brueckner and crimes in Portugal which went entirely unnoticed.
Agreed but don't pretend that Portugal is alone in their failings .
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Agreed but don't pretend that Portugal is alone in their failings .
If you want to discuss somewhere else then go elsewhere.
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However, this is a Thread about Brueckner and crimes in Portugal which went entirely unnoticed.
Brueckner's crimes didn't go 'entirely unnoticed'.
The police investigated & collected evidence from the crime scenes.
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'twas a different beam...
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/ (https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/)
to this one in Brueckner's rented cottage...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html)
Thank you Myster
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He seems to have threatened, tied up, whipped, humiliated & degraded his victims. I'm sure it was a most harrowing experience, absolutely. But not especially physically damaging.
Still, maybe they should have kept firearms if they insisted on leaving their doors unlocked.
Do we KNOW that he originally came in via an unlocked door?
Do we KNOW that the door was unlocked, or is that a myth?
Seems he came from the balcony which is a route that would suit Bruckner well, altho I can't personally see any way he could do it unless he had a grappling iron with rope or, maybe, the bedroom was ground floor or by a down pipe or something similar
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He was known to his coterie as "The Climber", and more likely that it was an apartment on the lower levels with some easy grappling/foothold points such as drainage pipes near to the balcony. Hazel B mentioned that her attacker came in that way, leaving his wet/soiled shoes there so no imprints would be created on the white tiled floor which is visible in the photos posted previously.
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'twas a different beam...
https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/ (https://www.archiwumzbrodni.pl/czy-11-letni-rui-zostal-uprowadzony-przez-czlonkow-the-wonderland-club-matka-chlopca-rozpoznaje-go-na-zabezpieczonych-przez-policje-zdjeciach/)
to this one in Brueckner's rented cottage...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html)
I think that likely you are right, but the colour of the beam should be ignored. Wood stain can be used.
On the web, looking at
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html)
there are two images seemingly at different periods showing an almost vertical beam and the one is dark brown and the other light brown. Both the same beam, I think, but shown from different possibly opposite aspects. also different furniture.
Ruis beam leans more, but then had the other two photos beeen taken at 90* to the aspect/s shown , the beam might have been leaning like that from the other aspect.
I think it likely that you are right and I am wrong on this one, but I shall keep it at the rear of the back burner just in case.
BTW, some years ago I managed to enlarge a better quality picture than yours and the glass topped display chest was filled with torture and restraint equipment as far as I could see.
UGH ! What sickos are around
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Thank you Myster
You might have already translated that Polish article on Rui Mendonca, but if not here it is in full...
Was 11-year-old Rui abducted by members of The Wonderland Club? The boy's mother recognizes him in photos secured by police.
By Dorota Ortakci
Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça went missing on March 4, 1998. A few months later, the boy is recognized by his mother, in some of the hundreds of thousands of photos belonging to members of a club with the innocent-sounding name The Wonderland Club.
Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça was born on January 28, 1987, in a town called Lousada, Portugal, as the son of Filomena Teixeira and Manuel Mendonça. The boy lived in Lousada with his parents until he disappeared in 1998.
Rui, 11, went missing on March 4, 1998, at around 2 p.m. That day, the boy rode his bicycle to his mother's work, which was not far from his home. Rui then asked Filomena if he could spend the afternoon with Afonso Dias, his 21-year-old friend from the neighborhood. The woman knew Afonso and his family, but for some reason she did not agree to the meeting. It is not clear whether it was just an age issue or whether other reasons were involved. What is known, however, is that the boy was scheduled to go to some classroom activities that afternoon, and perhaps that was the reason for her refusal. Filomena told Rui that if he wanted to, he could play on the playground near her office, and the boy agreed. That was the last time the mother spoke to her son.
The search for the boy began after Rui's teacher called his parents, informing them that the 11-year-old had failed to show up for class. The desperate parents reported the matter to the police. Filomena then told them about Rui's request to meet Alfonso. A bicycle belonging to the boy was found in the bushes near Filomena's workplace.
Afonso was questioned and told police that he had no idea where the boy was staying, but suggested the police "close the borders" because Rui's kidnapper, may be trying to leave the state or even the country. This information made the police suspicious of him. How could they be sure that the boy had been kidnapped?
An important piece of information for the investigation was given to the police by João Mendonça, Rui's cousin. João told the police about a meeting with Alcina Dias, a prostitute. Afonso invited them to meet Alcina, and the woman confirmed this fact and said she was paid to have sex with Rui, who was terrified and cried when he got out of the "older man's" car. The woman tried to calm the boy down and asked if his mother knew where he was now, but he denied it. Soon after, Rui returned to the car and was never seen again.
In April 1998, journalist Nuno Rogério traveled with his family to Disneyland Paris. During the trip, Rogério's family took some photos, and one of them shows a boy who looked very similar to Rui Pedro. Sitting next to the boy is a man in his mid-40s wearing a red jacket. Portuguese police have seized the photos for further analysis, but no progress has been made in that direction.
On September 1 of the same year, British police, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies from 13 other countries, carried out an operation code-named Operation Cathedral to dismantle a large international group involved in child p*rnography. The group was known as "The Wonderland Club" and operated mainly on the Internet. During the operation, police arrested 104 suspects in 13 countries, including Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the UK and the US. At the time, more than 750,000 videos and photos featuring some 1,263 children were seized. Among them was Rui Pedro.
The children's images were handed over to Interpol and the parents of the missing children were asked to help identify them. Filomena Teixeira was also asked to look at photos and recordings. In several of them, the woman immediately recognized her son. According to some sources, a ped*fil belonging to The Wonderland Club was in Portugal at the time of Rui's disappearance, but Portuguese police reportedly rejected evidence of this.
On the very first day after Rui Pedro went missing, several of his friends reported to the police station that Afonso had been obsessed with Rui for some time. According to them, he knew everything about the boy's life, where he was, who he was with and what he would be doing the next day. However, the police did not take their testimony seriously, claiming that the children were lying. It wasn't until 2011 that these witnesses were found to be credible.
In November 2011, Afonso Dias was brought to trial in Rui's case, and Alcina recognized him, claiming that he was the man who brought Rui to her on the day he disappeared. Rui's sister Pedro said during the trial that a year before her brother went missing, Afonso had taken several photos of her and Rui, something he had never done before. Ultimately, Afonso was acquitted in 2012 due to insufficient evidence against him.
In 2014, Afonso was again charged and sentenced to three years in prison for forcing Rui into sexual relations with Alcina, but he was never charged for his involvement in the boy's disappearance. Afonso served two years and was released after serving two-thirds of his sentence for good behavior. The man never admitted his involvement in Rui's disappearance.
Filomena, Rui's mother, repeatedly complained about police work and spoke of how authorities ignored numerous clues and facts. According to her, they were doing nothing, and as a result, she began acting on her own to find her son. Manuel Mendonça, the father, of the boy talked about how the place where Afonso was serving his sentence looked more like a "hotel" than a prison. The family still does not know Rui's whereabouts.
It's been 33 years...
On January 28, 2020, Rui Pedro celebrated his 33rd birthday, and his mother once again accentuated her love for him in a chilling and emotional letter. The letter was published in the newspaper Terras do Vale do Sousa, and in it the mother expressed her undying love for Rui with the words:
"And now that 33 years have passed, how do you look? Congratulations my son! Wherever you are, accept from us this strong hug ... and many kisses." - excerpt from the letter.
Filomena then reported that her father had spent all his money to find his grandson. To ease the family's pain ... The woman also described her emotions and impressions after she was called to see videos and photos involving the children for identification. "I saw terrible things. They showed me children being raped and breaking down crying. And they were masturbating. I watched these photos and videos to see if any of the children were my son, and it got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore."
In 2019. Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça was declared dead, and the case of his disappearance remains unsolved to this day.
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I think that likely you are right, but the colour of the beam should be ignored. Wood stain can be used.
On the web, looking at
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8385667/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-vanished-suddenly-rented-home.html) there are two images seemingly at different periods showing an almost vertical beam and the one is dark brown and the other light brown. Both the same beam, I think, but shown from different possibly opposite aspects
Ruis beam leans more, but then had the other two photos beeen taken at 90* to the aspect/s shown , the neam might have been leaning like that.
I think it likely that you are right and I am wrong on this one, but I shall keep it at the rear of the back burner just in case.
BTW, some years ago I managed to enlarge a better quality picture than yours and the glass topped display chest was filled with torture and restraint equipment as far as I could see.
UGH ! What sickos are around
Brueckner's beam or rather, post, is situated somewhere in the middle of the room and photographed as you said from two different positions... one looking towards a fireplace, the other towards a window with venetian blind. The Mendonca post appears close to a wall with nothing directly behind it.
That was the only photo of the latter I could find and again as you said, others must have been deleted off the net.
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Brueckner's beam or rather, post, is situated somewhere in the middle of the room and photographed as you said from two different positions... one looking towards a fireplace, the other towards a window with venetian blind. The Mendonca post appears close to a wall with nothing directly behind it.
That was the only photo of the latter I could find and again as you said, others must have been deleted off the net.
Agreed
Is that a first?
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He was known to his coterie as "The Climber", and more likely that it was an apartment on the lower levels with some easy grappling/foothold points such as drainage pipes near to the balcony. Hazel B mentioned that her attacker came in that way, leaving his wet/soiled shoes there so no imprints would be created on the white tiled floor which is visible in the photos posted previously.
S
Seems that we don't KNOW that the door was unlocked, W.S. unless you can provide evidence.
Just another myth, eh?
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Is Rui Pedro another likely victim?
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Agreed
Is that a first?
Are you counting? I'm keeping my powder dry for any of those pesky psychic posts to come!
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Are you counting? I'm keeping my powder dry for any of those pesky psychic posts to come!
Never mind the possibility of the death of a child.
Something bloody awful has gone on. And who cares?
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Seems that we don't KNOW that the door was unlocked, SW. unless you can provide evidence.
Just another myth, eh?
Not according to Jon Clarke
"Behans assailant had climbed up to her first floor balcony and slid open her patio doors, which she had left slightly ajar."
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2021/12/24/exclusive-explosive-fingerprint-clue-as-madeleine-mccann-suspect-faces-three-new-charges/
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He was known to his coterie as "The Climber", and more likely that it was an apartment on the lower levels with some easy grappling/foothold points such as drainage pipes near to the balcony. Hazel B mentioned that her attacker came in that way, leaving his wet/soiled shoes there so no imprints would be created on the white tiled floor which is visible in the photos posted previously.
Well, I think that was very considerate of him, not treading mud all over the nice clean white floor.
I suppose he does have some good qualities.
Bit of a numpty for leaving his partial fingerprint on a knife though. (allegedly)
Oh well, he can just keep his cell nice & clean from now on I suppose.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2021/12/24/exclusive-explosive-fingerprint-clue-as-madeleine-mccann-suspect-faces-three-new-charges/
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You might have already translated that Polish article on Rui Mendonca, but if not here it is in full...
Was 11-year-old Rui abducted by members of The Wonderland Club? The boy's mother recognizes him in photos secured by police.
By Dorota Ortakci
Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça went missing on March 4, 1998. A few months later, the boy is recognized by his mother, in some of the hundreds of thousands of photos belonging to members of a club with the innocent-sounding name The Wonderland Club.
Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça was born on January 28, 1987, in a town called Lousada, Portugal, as the son of Filomena Teixeira and Manuel Mendonça. The boy lived in Lousada with his parents until he disappeared in 1998.
Rui, 11, went missing on March 4, 1998, at around 2 p.m. That day, the boy rode his bicycle to his mother's work, which was not far from his home. Rui then asked Filomena if he could spend the afternoon with Afonso Dias, his 21-year-old friend from the neighborhood. The woman knew Afonso and his family, but for some reason she did not agree to the meeting. It is not clear whether it was just an age issue or whether other reasons were involved. What is known, however, is that the boy was scheduled to go to some classroom activities that afternoon, and perhaps that was the reason for her refusal. Filomena told Rui that if he wanted to, he could play on the playground near her office, and the boy agreed. That was the last time the mother spoke to her son.
The search for the boy began after Rui's teacher called his parents, informing them that the 11-year-old had failed to show up for class. The desperate parents reported the matter to the police. Filomena then told them about Rui's request to meet Alfonso. A bicycle belonging to the boy was found in the bushes near Filomena's workplace.
Afonso was questioned and told police that he had no idea where the boy was staying, but suggested the police "close the borders" because Rui's kidnapper, may be trying to leave the state or even the country. This information made the police suspicious of him. How could they be sure that the boy had been kidnapped?
An important piece of information for the investigation was given to the police by João Mendonça, Rui's cousin. João told the police about a meeting with Alcina Dias, a prostitute. Afonso invited them to meet Alcina, and the woman confirmed this fact and said she was paid to have sex with Rui, who was terrified and cried when he got out of the "older man's" car. The woman tried to calm the boy down and asked if his mother knew where he was now, but he denied it. Soon after, Rui returned to the car and was never seen again.
In April 1998, journalist Nuno Rogério traveled with his family to Disneyland Paris. During the trip, Rogério's family took some photos, and one of them shows a boy who looked very similar to Rui Pedro. Sitting next to the boy is a man in his mid-40s wearing a red jacket. Portuguese police have seized the photos for further analysis, but no progress has been made in that direction.
On September 1 of the same year, British police, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies from 13 other countries, carried out an operation code-named Operation Cathedral to dismantle a large international group involved in child p*rnography. The group was known as "The Wonderland Club" and operated mainly on the Internet. During the operation, police arrested 104 suspects in 13 countries, including Australia, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, the UK and the US. At the time, more than 750,000 videos and photos featuring some 1,263 children were seized. Among them was Rui Pedro.
The children's images were handed over to Interpol and the parents of the missing children were asked to help identify them. Filomena Teixeira was also asked to look at photos and recordings. In several of them, the woman immediately recognized her son. According to some sources, a ped*fil belonging to The Wonderland Club was in Portugal at the time of Rui's disappearance, but Portuguese police reportedly rejected evidence of this.
On the very first day after Rui Pedro went missing, several of his friends reported to the police station that Afonso had been obsessed with Rui for some time. According to them, he knew everything about the boy's life, where he was, who he was with and what he would be doing the next day. However, the police did not take their testimony seriously, claiming that the children were lying. It wasn't until 2011 that these witnesses were found to be credible.
In November 2011, Afonso Dias was brought to trial in Rui's case, and Alcina recognized him, claiming that he was the man who brought Rui to her on the day he disappeared. Rui's sister Pedro said during the trial that a year before her brother went missing, Afonso had taken several photos of her and Rui, something he had never done before. Ultimately, Afonso was acquitted in 2012 due to insufficient evidence against him.
In 2014, Afonso was again charged and sentenced to three years in prison for forcing Rui into sexual relations with Alcina, but he was never charged for his involvement in the boy's disappearance. Afonso served two years and was released after serving two-thirds of his sentence for good behavior. The man never admitted his involvement in Rui's disappearance.
Filomena, Rui's mother, repeatedly complained about police work and spoke of how authorities ignored numerous clues and facts. According to her, they were doing nothing, and as a result, she began acting on her own to find her son. Manuel Mendonça, the father, of the boy talked about how the place where Afonso was serving his sentence looked more like a "hotel" than a prison. The family still does not know Rui's whereabouts.
It's been 33 years...
On January 28, 2020, Rui Pedro celebrated his 33rd birthday, and his mother once again accentuated her love for him in a chilling and emotional letter. The letter was published in the newspaper Terras do Vale do Sousa, and in it the mother expressed her undying love for Rui with the words:
"And now that 33 years have passed, how do you look? Congratulations my son! Wherever you are, accept from us this strong hug ... and many kisses." - excerpt from the letter.
Filomena then reported that her father had spent all his money to find his grandson. To ease the family's pain ... The woman also described her emotions and impressions after she was called to see videos and photos involving the children for identification. "I saw terrible things. They showed me children being raped and breaking down crying. And they were masturbating. I watched these photos and videos to see if any of the children were my son, and it got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore."
In 2019. Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça was declared dead, and the case of his disappearance remains unsolved to this day.
I can't bring myself to read it
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Not according to Jon Clarke
"Behans assailant had climbed up to her first floor balcony and slid open her patio doors, which she had left slightly ajar."
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2021/12/24/exclusive-explosive-fingerprint-clue-as-madeleine-mccann-suspect-faces-three-new-charges/
So despite photos showing the front door to the mini apartment are you now changing the door being unlcked to the patio door? Schemer, aren't you.
So, in the middle of June on the southern Algarve with its heat, Behan was expected to keep her only source of fresh air locked away was she? FGS she was on the first floor (second floor for some of you) and the building looked unclimbable.
I suggest that you STOP making inane remarks about her having left the door open in future.
.... UNLESS, you can prove that her front door was open. I don't think you can unless someone wizards up a false report somehow.
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So despite photos showing the front door to the mini apartment are you now changing the door being unlcked to the patio door? Schemer, aren't you.
So, in the middle of June on the southern Algarve with its heat, Behan was expected to keep her only source of fresh air locked away was she? FGS she was on the first floor (second floor for some of you) and the building looked unclimbable.
I suggest that you STOP making inane remarks about her having left the door open in future.
.... UNLESS, you can prove that her front door was open. I don't think you can unless someone wizards up a false report somehow.
I never mentioned anything about her front door being open. I've said it was the sliding door.
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So despite photos showing the front door to the mini apartment are you now changing the door being unlcked to the patio door? Schemer, aren't you.
So, in the middle of June on the southern Algarve with its heat, Behan was expected to keep her only source of fresh air locked away was she? FGS she was on the first floor (second floor for some of you) and the building looked unclimbable.
I suggest that you STOP making inane remarks about her having left the door open in future.
.... UNLESS, you can prove that her front door was open. I don't think you can unless someone wizards up a false report somehow.
It's not an unreasonable assumption that leaving a window or patio door open on a first, second (or higher) floor apartment is safe. How many people sleep in their first floor bedrooms with their windows open at the height of summer? According to trolls this is just asking for it!
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It's not an unreasonable assumption that leaving a window or patio door open on a first, second (or higher) floor apartment is safe. How many people sleep in their first floor bedrooms with their windows open at the height of summer? According to trolls this is just asking for it!
Why was there a lock on the door?
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Why was there a lock on the door?
Was there?
Which door?
Most patio doors have locks, but most people using the flats in the heat of the summer will keep the doors open. The
build up of heat on the Algarve mid summer can prevent sleep.
Unless the flats have air-conditioning. Do you have any bona-fide proof that there was any air con? I see no evidence.
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Was there?
Which door?
Most patio doors have locks, but most people using the flats in the heat of the summer will keep the doors open. The
build up of heat on the Algarve mid summer can prevent sleep.
Unless the flats have air-conditioning. Do you have any bona-fide proof that there was any air con? I see no evidence.
Seems strange she chose to sleep fully clothed then, if the heat was the issue.
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Was there?
Which door?
Most patio doors have locks, but most people using the flats in the heat of the summer will keep the doors open. The
build up of heat on the Algarve mid summer can prevent sleep.
Unless the flats have air-conditioning. Do you have any bona-fide proof that there was any air con? I see no evidence.
I wouldn’t waste time trying to reason with the troll Sadie. The idea that women are to be blamed for being raped if they leave their first floor (or higher) patio doors unlocked is one that only a troll could champion. He thrives on the attention and is best ignored until he grows up and has something sensible to say.
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Seems strange she chose to sleep fully clothed then, if the heat was the issue.
Seems she had done the sensible thing and left her patio door slightly ajar so the room was OK.
Fully dressed, was she? If the room was OK heatwise, why not?
You are deliberately diversifying WS. The truth of the matter is that the only door left open was the first/second floor patio/balcony door unless you can prove differently with a bone fide photograph. This had to be reached via a virtually impossible climb up to the balcony.
You have been incorrectly intimating via a photo of the main entrance door that this, the main entrance, was the unlocked door. I suggest that you clean your act up.
It would be in order to apologise to Hazel Behan for casting aspersions, WS. Are you big enough to do that and mean it?
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Seems she had done the sensible thing and left her patio door slightly ajar so the room was OK.
Fully dressed, was she? If the room was OK heatwise, why not?
You are deliberately diversifying WS. The truth of the matter is that the only door left open was the first/second floor patio/balcony door unless you can prove differently with a bone fide photograph. This had to be reached via a virtually impossible climb up to the balcony.
You have been incorrectly intimating via a photo of the main entrance door that this, the main entrance, was the unlocked door. I suggest that you clean your act up.
It would be in order to apologise to Hazel Behan for casting aspersions, WS. Are you big enough to do that and mean it?
Well I haven't said anything about any other door being open than the sliding door. I knew exactly to which door I was referring, if you didn't, well that's your own problem.
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I wouldn’t waste time trying to reason with the troll Sadie. The idea that women are to be blamed for being raped if they leave their first floor (or higher) patio doors unlocked is one that only a troll could champion. He thrives on the attention and is best ignored until he grows up and has something sensible to say.
Not once have I said anything as appalling as that she is to blame for being raped. It's just it might never have happened if she'd just locked her door, that's all.
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Anyway, Brueckner is safely under lock & key now.
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Well I haven't said anything about any other door being open than the sliding door. I knew exactly to which door I was referring, if you didn't, well that's your own problem.
How about adjusting your posts and getting rid of the acusatory comments about Hazel Behan.... and apologies would be in order.
Those are the correct things to do
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How about adjusting your posts and getting rid of the acusatory comments about Hazel Behan.... and apologies would be in order.
Those are the correct things to do
Like that’s ever going to happen.
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How about adjusting your posts and getting rid of the acusatory comments about Hazel Behan.... and apologies would be in order.
Those are the correct things to do
Hazel Behan has been tremendously brave and public spirited in waiving her right to anonymity to ensure that this time round her voice will be heard.
She was viciously raped in 2004.
She was astounded to learn as a result of the German investigation into Madeleine McCann's case, that the following year an almost identical rape to hers using almost identical MO took place in Luz.
Hazel's case is one of those for which Brueckner is indicted and if the evidence justifies it should be brought to trial, it will be.
In the intervening period there is something extremely disturbing that a woman who was raped by an intruder who had invaded for that specific purpose into what should have been her safe area, is being subjected to such blatant victim blaming.
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Hazel Behan has been tremendously brave and public spirited in waiving her right to anonymity to ensure that this time round her voice will be heard.
She was viciously raped in 2004.
She was astounded to learn as a result of the German investigation into Madeleine McCann's case, that the following year an almost identical rape to hers using almost identical MO took place in Luz.
Hazel's case is one of those for which Brueckner is indicted and if the evidence justifies it should be brought to trial, it will be.
In the intervening period there is something extremely disturbing that a woman who was raped by an intruder who had invaded for that specific purpose into what should have been her safe area, is being subjected to such blatant victim blaming.
It's what online anonymous judgmental trolls do, it's their hobby and it's been going on for years. It must give them a dopamine rush or something. Sad. Very sad.
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It's what online anonymous judgmental trolls do, it's their hobby and it's been going on for years. It must give them a dopamine rush or something. Sad. Very sad.
When taking the cumulative effect of Brueckner's proven and alleged offences over the years into consideration, the outcome for many of his victims must have been traumatic.
Just the description of the assault on the little girl on the beach for which he has currently been indicted, gives me the shivers to think about it.
The obvious opportunity for escalation into for example, another missing child case is inescapable.
People jumping onto the bandwagon of support for this career criminal's rights haven't really given his offences proper consideration in my opinion. Particularly when the motivation appears to be prejudice that he emerged as the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
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Hazel Behan has been tremendously brave and public spirited in waiving her right to anonymity to ensure that this time round her voice will be heard.
She was viciously raped in 2004.
She was astounded to learn as a result of the German investigation into Madeleine McCann's case, that the following year an almost identical rape to hers using almost identical MO took place in Luz.
Hazel's case is one of those for which Brueckner is indicted and if the evidence justifies it should be brought to trial, it will be.
In the intervening period there is something extremely disturbing that a woman who was raped by an intruder who had invaded for that specific purpose into what should have been her safe area, is being subjected to such blatant victim blaming.
I'm not blaming her. Brueckner is entirely at fault for raping Behan & now I doubt he'll be seeing the outside of the prison walls for the foreseeable future, and rightly so.
He shouldn't have entered her apartment, she wasn't to know someone might scuttle up the drainpipe & through her balcony door. But I don't think it's unfair to point out that the door was equipped with a lock, the purpose of which was to reduce the possibility of such an occurrence. But thankyou all, apologies accepted.
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Anyway, Brueckner is safely under lock & key now.
Unless they leave his cell door slightly ajar.
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Unless they leave his cell door slightly ajar.
That's when the other nonces on the wing all rush into his cell & get justice for Maddie.
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Brueckner will spend the rest of his life in prison and watching his back. Madeleine doesn't even have to come into that, although probably sad to say.
He is a psychopath who will almost certainly not understand. But so long as he is off the streets of Europe who cares how he feels.
What makes a psychopath is more interesting.
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Brueckner will spend the rest of his life in prison and watching his back. Madeleine doesn't even have to come into that, although probably sad to say.
He is a psychopath who will almost certainly not understand. But so long as he is off the streets of Europe who cares how he feels.
What makes a psychopath is more interesting.
He's not a psychopath, IMMHAEO, but what clinically makes a pyschopath is an interesting subject.
Studies show that psychopaths have reduced connections between the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC), the part of the brain responsible for sentiments such as empathy and guilt, and the amygdala, which mediates fear and anxiety.
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That's when the other nonces on the wing all rush into his cell & get justice for Maddie.
Well they did try the oldie but goldie 'cell plant' technique, in their abject desperation to winkle out a confession; fresh meat drops in to the wing and was clearly not conspicuous at all. So recruiting the other nonces on the wing isn't a leap for them at all.
That episode alone will guarantee he is never charged as it was a shit or bust move. That's why they're scouring Europe for other charges.
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He's not a psychopath, IMMHAEO, but what clinically makes a pyschopath is an interesting subject.
Studies show that psychopaths have reduced connections between the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC), the part of the brain responsible for sentiments such as empathy and guilt, and the amygdala, which mediates fear and anxiety.
So keep Brueckner off the streets by any means available.
But thanks for your knowledge of psychopaths, or not.
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Well they did try the oldie but goldie 'cell plant' technique, in their abject desperation to winkle out a confession; fresh meat drops in to the wing and was clearly not conspicuous at all. So recruiting the other nonces on the wing isn't a leap for them at all.
That episode alone will guarantee he is never charged as it was a shit or bust move. That's why they're scouring Europe for other charges.
I do not approve of Prison Justice. I don't care about what they do to keep Brueckner safe. But he is already a convicted paedophile and rapist who will almost certainly be convicted of at least some of the current charges.
Justice for Madeleine will sadly have to wait. But I can't see Brueckner loose before he is at least seventy years old.
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Press release of 28.11.2022 - Arrest warrant
In the criminal proceedings (case no. 2 KLs 213 Js 52790/18 (15/22)), the 2nd Criminal Chamber issued an arrest
warrant against the 45-year-old accused by decision of 18.11.2022 for five offences for violation of sexual self-determination. The 2nd Criminal Chamber affirmed an urgent suspicion for the five acts charged and regarded the grounds for detention of the risk of absconding and the risk of repetition as given.
The accused is currently serving the prison sentence from the judgment of the Braunschweig Regional Court of
16.12.2019 (Az. 1 KLs 71/19, sentence to a total prison sentence of 7 years).
An execution of the arrest warrant is currently not possible, as this requires the consent of Italy (cf. § 83 h IRG), since the accused was apprehended and extradited there.
This will now be obtained by the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office as part of a so-called supplementary approval procedure.
The decision was made in the interlocutory proceedings. A press release on the further progress of the
proceedings will be issued in due course.
Contact:
Judge at the Regional Court
Lisa Rust
Press officer
Regional Court Braunschweig
Münzstraße 17
38100 Braunschweig
Phone: (0531) 488-2546 or 0175/5047289
fax: (0531) 488-2665
E-mail: lgbs-pressestelle@justiz.niedersachsen.de
Judge at the Regional Court
Maike Block-Cavallaro
Press officer
Regional Court Braunschweig
Münzstrasse 17
38100 Braunschweig, Germany
Phone: 0531 488-2374 or 0151/26355014
fax: 0531 488-2549
Email:lgbs-pressestelle@justiz.niedersachsen.de
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So keep Brueckner off the streets by any means available.
But thanks for your knowledge of psychopaths, or not.
I assume you mean by any LEGAL means available.
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I assume you mean by any LEGAL means available.
No other means appear to be necessary. And you know me. Innocent until proven guilty. This includes The McCanns of course.
However, the latest slew of charges against Brueckner are going to be fascinating watching.
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No other means appear to be necessary. And you know me. Innocent until proven guilty. This includes The McCanns of course.
However, the latest slew of charges against Brueckner are going to be fascinating watching.
Brueckner remains the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's case and the Germans have confirmed that they are now concentrating on that.
The present arrest warrant in the five cases is the result of what has been a long and exhaustive inquiry which shows no sign of being over any time soon. And very likely only includes the offenses the police had any chance of bringing to trial and proving.
Brueckner was obviously a prolific sexual offender over many years and must have caused a lot of damage to other people over that period.
Perhaps now that properly constituted action is being taken against Brueckner surely it is time for Amaral's sceptics to drop the "patsy" allegation propagated on his behalf and wait to see what sort of evidence will be led in court regarding these five cases.
Or while accepting the knowledge that Brueckner sometimes really isn't a very nice guy, has the word been put around that it is only in the case of Madeleine McCann he is a 'patsy'.
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Brueckner remains the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's case and the Germans have confirmed that they are now concentrating on that.
The present arrest warrant in the five cases is the result of what has been a long and exhaustive inquiry which shows no sign of being over any time soon. And very likely only includes the offenses the police had any chance of bringing to trial and proving.
Brueckner was obviously a prolific sexual offender over many years and must have caused a lot of damage to other people over that period.
Perhaps now that properly constituted action is being taken against Brueckner surely it is time for Amaral's sceptics to drop the "patsy" allegation propagated on his behalf and wait to see what sort of evidence will be led in court regarding these five cases.
Or while accepting the knowledge that Brueckner sometimes really isn't a very nice guy, has the word been put around that it is only in the case of Madeleine McCann he is a 'patsy'.
I'm glad you said Brueckner sometimes isn't a very nice guy. Because undoubtedly there will have been times in his life when he was a nice guy. The tourists he gave a lift in his camper had no suspicion at all that he would wear tights by night. He seems to have been popular with the ladies also. He would have been hanging round camping sites, flogging bags of green to hippies, I bet his customers liked him. I could quite see him offering to help change a wheel or check under the hood. Fine, other times he was a burgling rapist & paedophile, that's not great, but I think we should always try to see the good in people. Still, he'll have plenty of time now to reflect on his life choices. If he ever gets out, maybe he'll be a changed man. I wish him all the best sitting in his cell. He's going to need all the best wishes he can get frankly.
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I'm glad you said Brueckner sometimes isn't a very nice guy. Because undoubtedly there will have been times in his life when he was a nice guy. The tourists he gave a lift in his camper had no suspicion at all that he would wear tights by night. He seems to have been popular with the ladies also. He would have been hanging round camping sites, flogging bags of green to hippies, I bet his customers liked him. I could quite see him offering to help change a wheel or check under the hood. Fine, other times he was a burgling rapist & paedophile, that's not great, but I think we should always try to see the good in people. Still, he'll have plenty of time now to reflect on his life choices. If he ever gets out, maybe he'll be a changed man. I wish him all the best sitting in his cell. He's going to need all the best wishes he can get frankly.
I reserve my sympathies for the victims of predatory criminals such as Brueckner has proven to be.
Criminals have choices - victims do not.
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I reserve my sympathies for the victims of predatory criminals such as Brueckner has proven to be.
Criminals have choices - victims do not.
Well I'm sorry but that's not true. Both Hazel B & Diane M had choices.
They could have chosen to engage the locks on their sliding doors. Locks which were designed & installed for the very purpose of keeping unwanted visitors out. They had that choice & chose not to.
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Victim Blaming is always a good way to go when losing the argument. Lock your doors or you deserve to be violently raped.
And as for those sexual child abuse victim, asking for it they were.
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Victim Blaming is always a good way to go when losing the argument. Lock your doors or you deserve to be violently raped.
And as for those sexual child abuse victim, asking for it they were.
I'm sorry?
What argument am I supposed to be losing exactly?
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While we're at it.
Can you tell me why doors have locks on them?
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While we're at it.
Can you tell me why doors have locks on them?
To keep you locked up indoors somewhere. Like what Brueckner is.
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To keep you locked up indoors somewhere. Like what Brueckner is.
Well, anyway. I think it's always best to lock my doors before I go to bed.
It's standard practice for me to double check I've locked my doors, just incase there's any burglars, rapists or murderers around.
Maybe I'm just a bit weird. Well, I am weird. Bit I'm also security conscious, but next time I feel like living dangerously I'll just leave the front door unlocked & take my chances, seeing as though that's what normal people do apparently.
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Well, anyway. I think it's always best to lock my doors before I go to bed.
It's standard practice for me to double check I've locked my doors, just incase there's any burglars, rapists or murderers around.
Maybe I'm just a bit weird. Well, I am weird. Bit I'm also security conscious, but next time I feel like living dangerously I'll just leave the front door unlocked & take my chances, seeing as though that's what normal people do apparently.
I never lock my doors. And I've got a Sword Stick. And the dog would have them anyway.
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Well, anyway. I think it's always best to lock my doors before I go to bed.
It's standard practice for me to double check I've locked my doors, just incase there's any burglars, rapists or murderers around.
Maybe I'm just a bit weird. Well, I am weird. Bit I'm also security conscious, but next time I feel like living dangerously I'll just leave the front door unlocked & take my chances, seeing as though that's what normal people do apparently.
Was the elderly lady going to bed? I don't think she was.
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Was the elderly lady going to bed? I don't think she was.
I couldn't care less to be honest.
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CB planned that attack he. He wasn't just trying doors, he knew he was going to rape that elderly woman as he had his rape kit with him. I think he would have got in there even if the door was locked.
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I couldn't care less to be honest.
Ok fine.
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CB planned that attack he. He wasn't just trying doors, he knew he was going to rape that elderly woman as he had his rape kit with him. I think he would have got in there even if the door was locked.
Think whatever you like.
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Think whatever you like.
We are all thinking it.
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We are all thinking it.
I’m not.
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I’m not.
Well you have taken the Left Hand Path haven't you? Shame cos there is a good bit that is nice about you.
Most reasonable people will be thinking that it isn't OK to say that 'You can't care less' in such a situation. Violent rape is not to be condoned.
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The two Child Sex Abuse Charges are a done deal. Witnesses and all. The three Rape Cases appear to have obvious similarities. But this is all for a Court to decide. In Germany, as it happens.
I don't understand how Judges Only Trials work, excepting of course that no emotion will come into this, as is possible with a Jury. So probably more fair for The Defendant.
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The two Child Sex Abuse Charges are a done deal. Witnesses and all. The three Rape Cases appear to have obvious similarities. But this is all for a Court to decide. In Germany, as it happens.
I don't understand how Judges Only Trials work, excepting of course that no emotion will come into this, as is possible with a Jury. So probably more fair for The Defendant.
The first I heard of 'judge only' trials was during a period of emergency in Northern Ireland when conventional trials would probably have put members of juries at unacceptable risk.
Very strange for us to contemplate but it seems to be quite unremarkable in Germany.
The charges are interesting. That Brueckner was arrested in flagrante at the children's playground, by an off duty police officer who was in attendance with her child at the fiesta, I don't think I would put the mortgage on him walking from that one.
I think the witnesses on the beach seem certain of his identity. So that will probably be decided on comparison with descriptions made at the time of the offence.
I'm intrigued by two of the three rapes of which he is accused, bearing in mind that rape offenses are notoriously difficult to prove in court.
All will be revealed in the fulness of time. Which I think will be more akin to the legal system we are more used to. With us hearing the evidence only once it has been presented in court.
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The first I heard of 'judge only' trials was during a period of emergency in Northern Ireland when conventional trials would probably have put members of juries at unacceptable risk.
Very strange for us to contemplate but it seems to be quite unremarkable in Germany.
The charges are interesting. That Brueckner was arrested in flagrante at the children's playground, by an off duty police officer who was in attendance with her child at the fiesta, I don't think I would put the mortgage on him walking from that one.
I think the witnesses on the beach seem certain of his identity. So that will probably be decided on comparison with descriptions made at the time of the offence.
I'm intrigued by two of the three rapes of which he is accused, bearing in mind that rape offenses are notoriously difficult to prove in court.
All will be revealed in the fulness of time. Which I think will be more akin to the legal system we are more used to. With us hearing the evidence only once it has been presented in court.
Brueckner's Lawyer must have the evidence by now. But what we think of that is irrelevant.
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Brueckner's Lawyer must have the evidence by now. But what we think of that is irrelevant.
I think that is the procedure in Germany. Once charges have been made the prosecution must share everything with the defence. No nasty surprises in a German court! I think that during investigation, the prosecutors are obliged to look for exonerating evidence as well as evidence to prove guilt.
Seems like a civilised way of doing things
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I think that is the procedure in Germany. Once charges have been made the prosecution must share everything with the defence. No nasty surprises in a German court! I think that during investigation, the prosecutors are obliged to look for exonerating evidence as well as evidence to prove guilt.
Seems like a civilised way of doing things
Brueckner has said that he will refuse to answer Prosecutor's Questions. Which appears to be his right. And I can't think of a reason for why it shouldn't be. But will his Lawyer be able to produce a Defence?
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The first I heard of 'judge only' trials was during a period of emergency in Northern Ireland when conventional trials would probably have put members of juries at unacceptable risk.
Very strange for us to contemplate but it seems to be quite unremarkable in Germany.
The charges are interesting. That Brueckner was arrested in flagrante at the children's playground, by an off duty police officer who was in attendance with her child at the fiesta, I don't think I would put the mortgage on him walking from that one.
I think the witnesses on the beach seem certain of his identity. So that will probably be decided on comparison with descriptions made at the time of the offence.
I'm intrigued by two of the three rapes of which he is accused, bearing in mind that rape offenses are notoriously difficult to prove in court.
All will be revealed in the fulness of time. Which I think will be more akin to the legal system we are more used to. With us hearing the evidence only once it has been presented in court.
Criminal trials in Germany are conducted in front of three (or two depending on the complexity of the case) professional judges and always two lay judges (jurors); all judges hearing the case have the same vote and there is a 2/3 requirement for all decisions that are negative for a defendant, e.g. guilty vs. not guilty or a higher punishment vs. a lower punishment. That means that two votes of “not guilty” prevent a conviction.
https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/postcard-from-bonn-germany-qa-with-judge-marc-eumann/
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The first I heard of 'judge only' trials was during a period of emergency in Northern Ireland when conventional trials would probably have put members of juries at unacceptable risk.
Very strange for us to contemplate but it seems to be quite unremarkable in Germany.
The charges are interesting. That Brueckner was arrested in flagrante at the children's playground, by an off duty police officer who was in attendance with her child at the fiesta, I don't think I would put the mortgage on him walking from that one.
I think the witnesses on the beach seem certain of his identity. So that will probably be decided on comparison with descriptions made at the time of the offence.
I'm intrigued by two of the three rapes of which he is accused, bearing in mind that rape offenses are notoriously difficult to prove in court.
All will be revealed in the fulness of time. Which I think will be more akin to the legal system we are more used to. With us hearing the evidence only once it has been presented in court.
The rape charges will be almost impossible to prove as firstly I believe that the victims haven’t even been identified and as to the alleged footage of the rapes we only have the word of two career criminals that it ever existed.
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Brueckner has said that he will refuse to answer Prosecutor's Questions. Which appears to be his right. And I can't think of a reason for why it shouldn't be. But will his Lawyer be able to produce a Defence?
I'm presuming he will communicate with his defence team. I presume they will do the best they can with that. I'm still intrigued about who is lifting their bill for that ~ or are they provided by the court?
Interestingly I do not know if they require to share information with the prosecution.
For example - was it MWT or Brueckner in a letter to a fan who claimed he had an alibi that cleared him? Which according to the prosecution I think, is not so.
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The rape charges will be almost impossible to prove as firstly I believe that the victims haven’t even been identified and as to the alleged footage of the rapes we only have the word of two career criminals that it ever existed.
These ‘career criminals’ you are referring to, are the people who were closest to CB when MM disappeared. Fifteen years have passed. Also for these men. Surely, you can grasp the role of fluidity i.e. friendships, alliances, confidantes.
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These ‘career criminals’ you are referring to, are the people who were closest to CB when MM disappeared. Fifteen years have passed. Also for these men. Surely, you can grasp the role of fluidity i.e. friendships, alliances, confidantes.
I can grasp the role being caught smuggling immigrants into the country played in loosening his tongue. Friendships do tend to change when one throws the other under a bus.
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I can grasp the role being caught smuggling immigrants into the country played in loosening his tongue. Friendships do tend to change when one throws the other under a bus.
Just because he blabbed thinking there might be an incentive to do so doesn’t mean he lied. In fact we know his information has already been instrumental in bringing one rape case to a successful conviction.
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These ‘career criminals’ you are referring to, are the people who were closest to CB when MM disappeared. Fifteen years have passed. Also for these men. Surely, you can grasp the role of fluidity i.e. friendships, alliances, confidantes.
Given the heinous crimes Brueckner was suspected of perhaps these 'career criminals' were anxious not to be associated with fellow career criminal Brueckner and just got their oar in first.
There is also the chance that they were appalled by the materials they saw on the video recording.
I doubt if the prosecutors presented their evidence without being sure that it was sufficient to pass the scrutiny required to allow charges to be made.
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Given the heinous crimes Brueckner was suspected of perhaps these 'career criminals' were anxious not to be associated with fellow career criminal Brueckner and just got their oar in first.
There is also the chance that they were appalled by the materials they saw on the video recording.
I doubt if the prosecutors presented their evidence without being sure that it was sufficient to pass the scrutiny required to allow charges to be made.
So appalled that he waited years to tell the police.
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Just because he blabbed thinking there might be an incentive to do so doesn’t mean he lied. In fact we know his information has already been instrumental in bringing one rape case to a successful conviction.
I'm getting a bit mixed up with all the underworld associates we know of who have given police information about Brueckner's involvement in crimes against women and children.
I think by now there must be many more we haven't heard about who have provided intelligence or even evidence to the inquiry. There are also the silent witnesses visible in Brueckner's porn collection, some of which has come into police hands.
But Helge Busching represents a real lost chance in solving Madeleine's case years before he contacted Operation Grange from Greece.
Snip
Greek media reported this summer that their police said he wanted to speak to British cops. Grange detectives flew to Athens to question Busching in 2017.
According to an internal Greek police report, Busching’s information was described as “given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration”.
It added that it had been “cross-checked and is considered a reliable source”. It also revealed how Busching had tried to report his concerns to the Portuguese police but had been fobbed off.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/
Busching and Brueckner were at a kite festival in Spain when Brueckner confessed his involvement. This was in 2008 by which time Madeleine had been written off by the Portuguese police and Busching "fobbed off" by them when he tried to report what he knew.
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I'm getting a bit mixed up with all the underworld associates we know of who have given police information about Brueckner's involvement in crimes against women and children.
I think by now there must be many more we haven't heard about who have provided intelligence or even evidence to the inquiry. There are also the silent witnesses visible in Brueckner's porn collection, some of which has come into police hands.
But Helge Busching represents a real lost chance in solving Madeleine's case years before he contacted Operation Grange from Greece.
Snip
Greek media reported this summer that their police said he wanted to speak to British cops. Grange detectives flew to Athens to question Busching in 2017.
According to an internal Greek police report, Busching’s information was described as “given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration”.
It added that it had been “cross-checked and is considered a reliable source”. It also revealed how Busching had tried to report his concerns to the Portuguese police but had been fobbed off.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/
Busching and Brueckner were at a kite festival in Spain when Brueckner confessed his involvement. This was in 2008 by which time Madeleine had been written off by the Portuguese police and Busching "fobbed off" by them when he tried to report what he knew.
How many times have I read that Cite now?
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So appalled that he waited years to tell the police.
According to Busching he told the polce about Brückner’s confession and activities and they fobbed him off. That has a ring of truth to me, knowing how keen the PJ were to fob off others with potentially vital information that didn’t chime with their own preconceived notions.
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How many times have I read that Cite now?
They don’t want to know, it doesn’t matter how often it’s repeated. Sceptics, like the PJ, just fob off any information that doesn’t chime with their preconceived notions.
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They don’t want to know, it doesn’t matter how often it’s repeated. Sceptics, like the PJ, just fob off any information that doesn’t chime with their preconceived notions.
It certainly makes you wonder. It must be on every Thread involving Brueckner and a few that don't.
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It certainly makes you wonder. It must be on every Thread involving Brueckner and a few that don't.
There is something called common knowledge.
Irrespectively of how often cites are posted or from how many different sources, they are just impenetrable to those who accept nothing which doesn't carry the Amaral imprimatur. Although I get the impression that cartooned vehicles and dreadlocks have been somewhat sidelined for the time being. Is the "patsy" thing still on the go?
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It certainly makes you wonder. It must be on every Thread involving Brueckner and a few that don't.
I guess it suits sceptics (aka Brückner aplogists) to believe that no crime has ever been solved by one criminal lowlife dobbing another criminal in it, though there must be literally millions of incidences of such, whether they were incentizised or not, whether they waited years to spill the beans or not.
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It is interesting that all those who say they were ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ always seem to say it in some tabloid or other. What was it Busching’s criminal compadre Seyferth said in the Discovery+ documentary ‘ he’d do anything for money’.
It would appear that it’s a sin on the forum not to be utterly gullible when it comes to a) paid for tabloid articles and b) people trafficking criminals with a charge sheet as long as your arm.
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I guess it suits sceptics (aka Brückner apologists) to believe that no crime has ever been solved by one criminal lowlife dobbing another criminal in it, though there must be literally millions of incidences of such, whether they were incentizised or not, whether they waited years to spill the beans or not.
“Everyone thinks murders are solved by CSI type techniques such as fingerprinting, blood spatter analysis and so on but actually, sometimes murders are solved by someone banging on the door and doing the basic, traditional policing techniques. They are still the bedrock of those investigations." Dr Graham Hill
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20075456/murder-detective-madeleine-mccann-christian-b-graham-hill/
We have been told that Brueckner actually was on police radar early days. They did bang on his door as a start, but for some reason or other they did not follow through.
One wonders was it because the police focus was so firmly fixed on Madeleine's parents that paedophiles/burglars were relegated and never given another thought.
Busching didn't know about Brueckner's claims until 2008 when he was apparently ignored by the police when he tried to report it. But even if any of the locally active criminal population had any suspicion of Bruckner, would the police have paid the slightest attention had they reported him.
I think not.
Because as far as they were concerned, they already had their woman!
When Brueckner's name first became known to us, Amaral was in the process of penning his second book still firmly pointing an accusing finger at people long since eliminated from any police inquiry.
The fact that obsession still ruled him and through him many others so many years down the line, suggests that the intransigence which dominated Madeleine's case right from the start actually did prevent any chance of solution.
Seems 'traditional policing techniques' Portuguese style, just weren't up to the job. Without Madeleine's case still being active and the German police alerted to him as a result, I think Brueckner would still be bouncing about from one end of Europe to the next totally in his element.
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It is interesting that all those who say they were ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ always seem to say it in some tabloid or other. What was it Busching’s criminal compadre Seyferth said in the Discovery+ documentary ‘ he’d do anything for money’.
It would appear that it’s a sin on the forum not to be utterly gullible when it comes to a) paid for tabloid articles and b) people trafficking criminals with a charge sheet as long as your arm.
So you’re of the view that the Greek, German and Portuguese authorities are “utterly gullible” then. I see. Where else would you expect to find out the views of those involved in this case, if not in the media? Would you find it more credible if I told you that I was told about being fobbed off personally by these individuals? Out of interest what do you think Seyferth’s motivation was for dobbing his old chum Bruckner in it then, seeing as you appear to take his views more seriously? And, stop being a coward and engage with me directly, not slyly.
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What people like Faithlilly keep on forgetting is that Busching and Seyferth’s information on CB (certainly with regard to his raping and taping activities) has already been accepted in a law court and without it a rapist would likely still be on the prowl raping women and possibly children too.
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According to Busching he told the polce about Brückner’s confession and activities and they fobbed him off. That has a ring of truth to me, knowing how keen the PJ were to fob off others with potentially vital information that didn’t chime with their own preconceived notions.
People said, usually to the media, that they were fobbed off. Imo they either were, or they needed to justify approaching the media instead of the police. I don't know which of those is the truth, and I don't see how you can know. To take just one example the two sisters who saw two blonde men on a balcony claimed the police ignored them, but at the same time the PJ listened to another holidaymaker who saw someone with dreadlocks and they investigated what he said. Why would they listen to one person and not to another?
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People said, usually to the media, that they were fobbed off. Imo they either were, or they needed to justify approaching the media instead of the police. I don't know which of those is the truth, and I don't see how you can know. To take just one example the two sisters who saw two blonde men on a balcony claimed the police ignored them, but at the same time the PJ listened to another holidaymaker who saw someone with dreadlocks and they investigated what he said. Why would they listen to one person and not to another?
Was that where Amaral got the idea about dreadlocks?
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People said, usually to the media, that they were fobbed off. Imo they either were, or they needed to justify approaching the media instead of the police. I don't know which of those is the truth, and I don't see how you can know. To take just one example the two sisters who saw two blonde men on a balcony claimed the police ignored them, but at the same time the PJ listened to another holidaymaker who saw someone with dreadlocks and they investigated what he said. Why would they listen to one person and not to another?
Sloppiness? Sexism? Racism? PS: notice how I always respond to your posts when directed at me, which contrasts very much with how very seldom you respond to mine when directed at you.
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How many times have I read that Cite now?
Seriously you believe the Sun, for years we read the "The Truth", or its version of what happened at Hillsborough, all turned out to be bollox.
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People said, usually to the media, that they were fobbed off. Imo they either were, or they needed to justify approaching the media instead of the police. I don't know which of those is the truth, and I don't see how you can know. To take just one example the two sisters who saw two blonde men on a balcony claimed the police ignored them, but at the same time the PJ listened to another holidaymaker who saw someone with dreadlocks and they investigated what he said. Why would they listen to one person and not to another?
Indeed.
If they had been ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ why not approach a British police force and if they did approach a British force surely they shouldn’t have then been taking that information to the tabloids.
I wonder what could have been their motivation?
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Seriously you believe the Sun, for years we read the "The Truth", or its version of what happened at Hillsborough, all turned out to be bollox.
It wasn't reported only in the Sun, silly sausage, but also in the European media
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Indeed.
If they had been ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ why not approach a British police force and if they did approach a British force surely they shouldn’t have then been taking that information to the tabloids.
I wonder what could have been their motivation?
Frustration most likely. It's as if you've never heard of the role the media can take in addressing serious lapses in organisations such as the police, the judicial system, governments. Tsk.
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It wasn't reported only in the Sun, silly sausage, but also in the European media
Cites, the Sun merely says greek media.
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It is a known fact that Brueckner was very much up to no good on The Algarve at the time that Madeleine disappeared. Some of his convictions relate to sexual crimes of one sort or another. No one in The PJ did anything about this. So it shouldn't be of any great surprise that Germany eventually did.
This leads me to suspect that there was some sort of protection racket going on in Portugal at the time.
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Indeed.
If they had been ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ why not approach a British police force and if they did approach a British force surely they shouldn’t have then been taking that information to the tabloids.
I wonder what could have been their motivation?
I do tend to put more trust in those who did speak to the police and refused to speak to the media.
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I do tend to put more trust in those who did speak to the police and refused to speak to the media.
Why?
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Cites, the Sun merely says greek media.
I don't have to provide cites, ask G-unit.
But unlike G-Unit, I am happy to provide cites. Here you go.
https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
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Note: this Greek article appeared in 2017. Busching did not talk to the media until 2020(?) I believe. Therefore according to G-Unit she would (for three years at least) put her trust in his evidence as he hadn't spoken to the media. However the moment he did speak to the media apparently we are to stop trusting him, that's how it works in Sceptic-world it would seem. Funny old world innit.
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Note: this Greek article appeared in 2017. Busching did not talk to the media until 2020(?) I believe. Therefore according to G-Unit she would (for three years at least) put her trust in his evidence as he hadn't spoken to the media. However the moment he did speak to the media apparently we are to stop trusting him, that's how it works in Sceptic-world it would seem. Funny old world innit.
Not doing any good though, is it. Brueckner has been charged and will go to Trial.
Meanwhile, nothing to stop Amaral from providing a character reference for The Defence.
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Seriously you believe the Sun, for years we read the "The Truth", or its version of what happened at Hillsborough, all turned out to be bollox.
I take it you know what those wee squiggly things mean when placed before " and after " a verbatim statement as in for example:
The Sun asked what he thought of Christian B and he said: “One word. Guilty.” https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/
I take it that The Sun is savvy enough to know that should it be "bollox" and not "The Truth" that Helge Brusching did actually say that, it is highly likely he is due a lot of money from them in compensation.
I think Amaral spews bollox every time he opens his mouth or puts pen to paper. But worth bearing in mind prior to your pontificating, that you and I are just armchair detectives reliant to a great extent on whichever supplier of bollox we care to use.
The real deal are the law enforcement officers who have been working for years to keep s..m off the streets. So far I think they have done that very well and if they have to use s..m to legitimately achieve that aim, more power to their elbow!
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Note: this Greek article appeared in 2017. Busching did not talk to the media until 2020(?) I believe. Therefore according to G-Unit she would (for three years at least) put her trust in his evidence as he hadn't spoken to the media. However the moment he did speak to the media apparently we are to stop trusting him, that's how it works in Sceptic-world it would seem. Funny old world innit.
Your cite specifically states ~
According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have developed cooperation with the Hellenic Police in recent days for the examination of a 46-year-old German who was arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeleine. As it still turns out, a team of Scotland Yard met this man in Athens a few days ago and drew crucial clues about the girl's fate.
https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
Brusching has been very careful about what he has said to the media, which is the bare minimum. I don't think there is any doubt as to his value as far as investigators working on Madeleine's case are concerned.
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I do tend to put more trust in those who did speak to the police and refused to speak to the media.
Absolutely.
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Not doing any good though, is it. Brueckner has been charged and will go to Trial.
Meanwhile, nothing to stop Amaral from providing a character reference for The Defence.
I find it rather strange this supporter assumption that if you think that there is little evidence in the public domain to suggest Brueckner’s guilt in connection to the McCann case then you somehow support him. Can you please explain how that works?
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I do tend to put more trust in those who did speak to the police and refused to speak to the media.
There is a long list of those who have relayed information regarding Madeleine's case to the appropriate authorities, which has been subsequently ignored.
None more infamous than the information Ricardo Paiva was found to be hoarding in 2010 in files marked as being irrelevant and which he as head of the Portuguese investigation had been sitting on and doing nothing about.
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Not doing any good though, is it. Brueckner has been charged and will go to Trial.
Meanwhile, nothing to stop Amaral from providing a character reference for The Defence.
Maybe he should put his money where his mouth is and reveal to the German court the source for his certainty of Brueckner's innocence of involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.
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Absolutely.
Busching didn’t go to the media for three years after telling the Greek police at least, ergo he was trustworthy during those three years according to sceptic logic. The second he went to the media however according to you and G-Unit all the information he gave to the police which previously could be trusted suddenly became lies through the act of speaking to a journalist. Amazing logic you’re demonstrating there.
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I find it rather strange this supporter assumption that if you think that there is little evidence in the public domain to suggest Brueckner’s guilt in connection to the McCann case then you somehow support him. Can you please explain how that works?
Says the woman who accuses those of us who think he was possibly involved as being morally bankrupt. *%87
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Seriously you believe the Sun, for years we read the "The Truth", or its version of what happened at Hillsborough, all turned out to be bollox.
In this instance the Sun reported accurately that which had already been divulged three years previously in a Greek newspaper, a cite for which I provided to you on request and which you have subsequently ignored.
You’re welcome.
@)(++(*
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There is a long list of those who have relayed information regarding Madeleine's case to the appropriate authorities, which has been subsequently ignored.
None more infamous than the information Ricardo Paiva was found to be hoarding in 2010 in files marked as being irrelevant and which he as head of the Portuguese investigation had been sitting on and doing nothing about.
Infamous indeed. This was a little trick played to discredit Paiva after he took the stand in the libel trial and gave testimony unfavourable to the parents. There was absolutely nothing to prove that the information within the file had not been investigated and found not to be relevant.
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Infamous indeed. This was a little trick played to discredit Paiva after he took the stand in the libel trial and gave testimony unfavourable to the parents. There was absolutely nothing to prove that the information within the file had not been investigated and found not to be relevant.
Nothing apart from a clear absence of any evidence that they HAD been thoroughly investigated! You logic is getting loopier by the minute.
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Nothing apart from a clear absence of any evidence that they HAD been thoroughly investigated! You logic is getting loopier by the minute.
The only 'trick' of which I am aware of featuring Paiva was the one when he used work equipment to display his equipment to an internet acquaintance in the mistaken belief he was a she and a busty, blonde model into the bargain.
What a plonker!
Not sure, but I think the repercussions of that episode was banishment to Madeira?
The repercussions from sitting on files of evidence possibly consisted of suffering from repetitive strain injury from writing "not relevant to the enquiry" on everything received; and the instruction from the trial judge that his secret collection be handed to the McCann lawyers to enable them to see what evidence he had accrued and ignored.
Actually I don't think Paiva was ever the sharpest knife in the box. Apparently he incriminated himself when defending against the suggestion Amaral's book had damaged the search for Madeleine.
He attested that information continued to come in and he had assiduously filed it in boxes marked "not relevant".
Sharp intake of breath from everyone in the court!!!!
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The only 'trick' of which I am aware of featuring Paiva was the one when he used work equipment to display his equipment to an internet acquaintance in the mistaken belief he was a she and a busty, blonde model into the bargain.
What a plonker!
Not sure, but I think the repercussions of that episode was banishment to Madeira?
The repercussions from sitting on files of evidence possibly consisted of suffering from repetitive strain injury from writing "not relevant to the enquiry" on everything received; and the instruction from the trial judge that his secret collection be handed to the McCann lawyers to enable them to see what evidence he had accrued and ignored.
Actually I don't think Paiva was ever the sharpest knife in the box. Apparently he incriminated himself when defending against the suggestion Amaral's book had damaged the search for Madeleine.
He attested that information continued to come in and he had assiduously filed it in boxes marked "not relevant".
Sharp intake of breath from everyone in the court!!!!
Oh God. I Remember that. Shocked I was. And it was Madeira.
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Busching didn’t go to the media for three years after telling the Greek police at least, ergo he was trustworthy during those three years according to sceptic logic. The second he went to the media however according to you and G-Unit all the information he gave to the police which previously could be trusted suddenly became lies through the act of speaking to a journalist. Amazing logic you’re demonstrating there.
I think in his case the media found him, not the other way round.
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I think in his case the media found him, not the other way round.
Hush, you’re not supporting your own contention that he is not to be trusted for going to the papers!
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I think in his case the media found him, not the other way round.
No. He contacted Scotland Yard.
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Indeed.
If they had been ‘fobbed off’ by the PJ why not approach a British police force and if they did approach a British force surely they shouldn’t have then been taking that information to the tabloids.
I wonder what could have been their motivation?
Why were they fobbed off by the PJ in the first place?
Please be realistic; how would somone of the likes of Leonor Cipriano be able to approach a British Police Force? Even a reasonably well educated Portuguese person would have found it virtually impossible unless they had use of a computer and knew how to use it. Even then they had to have enough of the english language to be able to fill any forms in and read instructions.
Brits in PT would be unlikely to have access to a computer, so even for them it would be difficult. And their opinions would very quickly have been shaken by disinformation put about by Amaral.
Please be realistic and reasonable
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In this instance the Sun reported accurately that which had already been divulged three years previously in a Greek newspaper, a cite for which I provided to you on request and which you have subsequently ignored.
You’re welcome.
@)(++(*
Unlike you I'm not glued to the McCann board waiting for a post to appear, I notice the Sun was on the ball reporting some 3 yrs after the original, thanks for bothering.
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Unlike you I'm not glued to the McCann board waiting for a post to appear, I notice the Sun was on the ball reporting some 3 yrs after the original, thanks for bothering.
"harrumph, harrumph, harrumph".
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No. He contacted Scotland Yard.
After he had been found smuggling immigrants into the country.
All a coincidence though.
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The only 'trick' of which I am aware of featuring Paiva was the one when he used work equipment to display his equipment to an internet acquaintance in the mistaken belief he was a she and a busty, blonde model into the bargain.
What a plonker!
Not sure, but I think the repercussions of that episode was banishment to Madeira?
The repercussions from sitting on files of evidence possibly consisted of suffering from repetitive strain injury from writing "not relevant to the enquiry" on everything received; and the instruction from the trial judge that his secret collection be handed to the McCann lawyers to enable them to see what evidence he had accrued and ignored.
Actually I don't think Paiva was ever the sharpest knife in the box. Apparently he incriminated himself when defending against the suggestion Amaral's book had damaged the search for Madeleine.
He attested that information continued to come in and he had assiduously filed it in boxes marked "not relevant".
Sharp intake of breath from everyone in the court!!!!
Paiva was the victim of a sting by a supporter….stupid man, but not the first man lead by his desires…. but why the necessity to go that far? To try to discredit him? There was talk at the time that the sting perpetrator was linked to people close to the parents but who knows?
AFAIA there has not been one piece of evidence in the file that was proven not to have been followed up. There was a New Zealand sighting but it seems that it was the New Zealand police who failed to follow up the sighting not the PJ.
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After he had been found smuggling immigrants into the country.
All a coincidence though.
So you don't believe the Greek police when they say Busching received no special treatment or incentive. I see. They must be in on it then, right, this worldwide conspiracy to nail Bruckner to save the McCanns' bacon. It's truly amazing. I doubt even QAnon would subscribe to such nonsense.
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After he had been found smuggling immigrants into the country.
All a coincidence though.
As far as I know, Büsching had a car. He picked up people. Later to be discovered as illegal immigrants.
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As far as I know, Büsching had a car. He picked up people. Later to be discovered as illegal immigrants.
You are correct, Anthro.
Three consenting adults; certainly not boatloads! OK he shouldn't have, but the Greek authorities made him pay for his crime.
Reading between the lines of his alleged assault on a homeless woman. I think it is possible that there was more to that than meets the eye too.
But whatever, it is repeated that he did make the attempt to bring the information he had to the attention of the Portuguese police at the time. But he was ignored.
Snip
Further investigation found that the German in question living in France had been arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car.
A case was filed against him and he was then released. But he did not appear in court and was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he had come back to Greece on holiday. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. In another document of the Hellenic Police drafted on July 20, 2017, it was noted that this German had been imprisoned on April 9, 2015 in Chania and had been using since October 2016 a mobile phone whose owner appeared to be a Bulgarian woman living in a lane on Liosion Street.
Finally, the 50-year-old was released from the prison of Chania in the summer of 2017 and immediately seems to have met in our country with a team of the British Police. The 50-year-old was reportedly in Portugal in May 2007 and was in a nearby location from Madeleine's disappearance site. In fact, he had contacted the local police at the time without his reports being taken seriously, as was the case with other similar information that has now been reassessed.
The 50-year-old stayed in Lamia a while after his release from prison, continuing to have contacts with English police officers. A few months later he appeared in a court in Corfu in the smuggling case and then allegedly departed from Greece in an unknown direction.
https://www.ieidiseis.gr/kosmos/item/47554-eksafanisi-mantlin-makkan-i-skotlant-giarnt-ekane-erevnes-kai-stin-ellada-gia-germano-poiniko
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As far as I know, Büsching had a car. He picked up people. Later to be discovered as illegal immigrants.
Exactly….as far as you know. How far is that?
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You are correct, Anthro.
Three consenting adults; certainly not boatloads! OK he shouldn't have, but the Greek authorities made him pay for his crime.
Reading between the lines of his alleged assault on a homeless woman. I think it is possible that there was more to that than meets the eye too.
But whatever, it is repeated that he did make the attempt to bring the information he had to the attention of the Portuguese police at the time. But he was ignored.
Snip
Further investigation found that the German in question living in France had been arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car.
A case was filed against him and he was then released. But he did not appear in court and was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he had come back to Greece on holiday. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. In another document of the Hellenic Police drafted on July 20, 2017, it was noted that this German had been imprisoned on April 9, 2015 in Chania and had been using since October 2016 a mobile phone whose owner appeared to be a Bulgarian woman living in a lane on Liosion Street.
Finally, the 50-year-old was released from the prison of Chania in the summer of 2017 and immediately seems to have met in our country with a team of the British Police. The 50-year-old was reportedly in Portugal in May 2007 and was in a nearby location from Madeleine's disappearance site. In fact, he had contacted the local police at the time without his reports being taken seriously, as was the case with other similar information that has now been reassessed.
The 50-year-old stayed in Lamia a while after his release from prison, continuing to have contacts with English police officers. A few months later he appeared in a court in Corfu in the smuggling case and then allegedly departed from Greece in an unknown direction.
https://www.ieidiseis.gr/kosmos/item/47554-eksafanisi-mantlin-makkan-i-skotlant-giarnt-ekane-erevnes-kai-stin-ellada-gia-germano-poiniko
So he jumped bail and failed to appear in court. I wonder how much he got paid for transporting the immigrants…wasn’t it his friend Seyferth who said that he’d do anything for money? And the beating up of the unfortunate beggar? What a nasty character.
Can you imagine his appearance in court for the prosecution? Any half decent defence lawyer….scratch that….even a totally incompetent defence lawyer would tear him to shreds.
As to it being let known that no enticements had been offered to Busching for his testimony, do you really think that the police would admit that their star witness was offered anything for his evidence? It would fatally undermine his testimony and credibility. I’m not sure why seemingly intelligent individuals are gobbling up this nonsense. It’s absolutely absurd.
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So he jumped bail and failed to appear in court. I wonder how much he got paid for transporting the immigrants…wasn’t it his friend Seyferth who said that he’d do anything for money? And the beating up of the unfortunate beggar? What a nasty character.
Can you imagine his appearance in court for the prosecution? Any half decent defence lawyer….scratch that….even a totally incompetent defence lawyer would tear him to shreds.
As to it being let known that no enticements had been offered to Busching for his testimony, do you really think that the police would admit that their star witness was offered anything for his evidence? It would fatally undermine his testimony and credibility. I’m not sure why seemingly intelligent individuals are gobbling up this nonsense. It’s absolutely absurd.
Perhaps you could explain in what way Busching was ever the Greek police’s “star witness” in anything, ever? Be a woman and engage with me directly, don’t hide behind others’ posts to get your insults in.
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There appears to be a belief (as exemplified by Faitlilly’s posts on the subject) that all any criminal need do in order to receive lenient treatment or get off scot-free is to invent a load of lies about a high profile case and the police (being stupidly gullible and eager to believe everything they are told) will simply accept what they’re told verbatim. Not only that, but the police will then lie to the public claiming no incentives were offered (knowing that this can be checked and/or the criminal in question can contradict their claims at some later date) and all in the hope that maybe, one day (and in this case in a court far far away and certainly nothing within their own jurisdiction) they might get a pat on the back for their minor role in solving the crime.
I’m surprised their are any criminals left in Greek jails, it’s apparently so easy to get out just by telling a few fibs.
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So he jumped bail and failed to appear in court. I wonder how much he got paid for transporting the immigrants…wasn’t it his friend Seyferth who said that he’d do anything for money? And the beating up of the unfortunate beggar? What a nasty character.
Can you imagine his appearance in court for the prosecution? Any half decent defence lawyer….scratch that….even a totally incompetent defence lawyer would tear him to shreds.
As to it being let known that no enticements had been offered to Busching for his testimony, do you really think that the police would admit that their star witness was offered anything for his evidence? It would fatally undermine his testimony and credibility. I’m not sure why seemingly intelligent individuals are gobbling up this nonsense. It’s absolutely absurd.
You’ve name-checked Seyferth a couple of times in order to cast doubt on Busching’s revelations. Perhaps you need a reminder on what Seyferth has to say about Brückner and the video he also claims to have sen:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8746635/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-capable-taking-child-partner-crime-says.html
So - do you consider Seyferth’s claims more credible than Busching’s? Do you not think the police interviewed him to check out Busching’s claims before these revelations appeared in the papers?
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There appears to be a belief (as exemplified by Faitlilly’s posts on the subject) that all any criminal need do in order to receive lenient treatment or get off scot-free is to invent a load of lies about a high profile case and the police (being stupidly gullible and eager to believe everything they are told) will simply accept what they’re told verbatim. Not only that, but the police will then lie to the public claiming no incentives were offered (knowing that this can be checked and/or the criminal in question can contradict their claims at some later date) and all in the hope that maybe, one day (and in this case in a court far far away and certainly nothing within their own jurisdiction) they might get a pat on the back for their minor role in solving the crime.
I’m surprised their are any criminals left in Greek jails, it’s apparently so easy to get out just by telling a few fibs.
What gets me is the assumed naivety of the belief that investigators are primed to accept uncorroborated statements without checking and comparing with all the other evidence available to them in the case they are working.
Nothing is ever accepted at face value. Checks and balances would have been carried out on the information held by Helge Busching and its credibility assessed.
To think and say otherwise is extremely desperate and naive.
The big mystery is the motivation of some. Very obvious lies about dreadlocks and cartoons are deemed irrefutable when announced to the media by one criminal - but evidence given privately to the police by another who is not seeking publicity and notoriety is immediately pounced on for ridicule. All because the lie at the heart of their belief system is challenged and demolished.
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You’ve name-checked Seyferth a couple of times in order to cast doubt on Busching’s revelations. Perhaps you need a reminder on what Seyferth has to say about Brückner and the video he also claims to have sen:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8746635/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-capable-taking-child-partner-crime-says.html
So - do you consider Seyferth’s claims more credible than Busching’s? Do you not think the police interviewed him to check out Busching’s claims before these revelations appeared in the papers?
Interesting from the point of view of detectives cross checking information in an investigation is a further link in the cite you have provided which categorically refutes misinformation made public.
Amaral claimed that Brueckner had his hair styled in hippie dreadlocks at the time Madeleine was taken. The video in your link https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8746635/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-capable-taking-child-partner-crime-says.html shows Brueckner with a short hairstyle at a date and time which makes Amaral's publicity drive to the contrary an obvious lie.
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What gets me is the assumed naivety of the belief that investigators are primed to accept uncorroborated statements without checking and comparing with all the other evidence available to them in the case they are working.
Nothing is ever accepted at face value. Checks and balances would have been carried out on the information held by Helge Busching and its credibility assessed.
To think and say otherwise is extremely desperate and naive.
The big mystery is the motivation of some. Very obvious lies about dreadlocks and cartoons are deemed irrefutable when announced to the media by one criminal - but evidence given privately to the police by another who is not seeking publicity and notoriety is immediately pounced on for ridicule. All because the lie at the heart of their belief system is challenged and demolished.
Who found the video of Brueckner without dreadlocks and cartoons is what I want to know?
However, ultimately none of this is of any importance. Our opinions are worthless.
But why did Amaral try to pull this stunt? We all know by now that he is nearly brainless, but can he be this stupid? Or was there a hidden agenda?
The whole of Portugal was ruled for many years by a corrupt PJ who terrified The Common People with torture and other such medieval practices, but they missed the ball when they tried it on a British Citizen and another supposedly helpless woman. Which is why the likes of me are still here.
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Yes yes.
Amaral should be in prison for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
In fact, I think it's more likely Amaral will be convicted for that, than Brueckner ever being charged with anything in relation to Madeleine's disappeance.
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You are correct, Anthro.
Three consenting adults; certainly not boatloads! OK he shouldn't have, but the Greek authorities made him pay for his crime.
Reading between the lines of his alleged assault on a homeless woman. I think it is possible that there was more to that than meets the eye too.
But whatever, it is repeated that he did make the attempt to bring the information he had to the attention of the Portuguese police at the time. But he was ignored.
Snip
Further investigation found that the German in question living in France had been arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car.
A case was filed against him and he was then released. But he did not appear in court and was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he had come back to Greece on holiday. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. In another document of the Hellenic Police drafted on July 20, 2017, it was noted that this German had been imprisoned on April 9, 2015 in Chania and had been using since October 2016 a mobile phone whose owner appeared to be a Bulgarian woman living in a lane on Liosion Street.
Finally, the 50-year-old was released from the prison of Chania in the summer of 2017 and immediately seems to have met in our country with a team of the British Police. The 50-year-old was reportedly in Portugal in May 2007 and was in a nearby location from Madeleine's disappearance site. In fact, he had contacted the local police at the time without his reports being taken seriously, as was the case with other similar information that has now been reassessed.
The 50-year-old stayed in Lamia a while after his release from prison, continuing to have contacts with English police officers. A few months later he appeared in a court in Corfu in the smuggling case and then allegedly departed from Greece in an unknown direction.
https://www.ieidiseis.gr/kosmos/item/47554-eksafanisi-mantlin-makkan-i-skotlant-giarnt-ekane-erevnes-kai-stin-ellada-gia-germano-poiniko
So he was arrested for trafficking in 2011, but failed to turn up to face the charges and left for France (probably). He returned to Greece for a holiday in 2015, was re-arrested and sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. So he was wanted in Greece for four years.
I wonder why he was imprisoned in Chania in April 2015? Was this a different case? Interestingly the UK press were reporting that Op Grange detectives were in Bulgaria in 2017 looking for a woman. Was this connected? Maybe they weren't looking for a woman connected to the Ocean Club, but for one connected to Busching.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
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So he was arrested for trafficking in 2011, but failed to turn up to face the charges and left for France (probably). He returned to Greece for a holiday in 2015, was re-arrested and sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. So he was wanted in Greece for four years.
I wonder why he was imprisoned in Chania in April 2015? Was this a different case? Interestingly the UK press were reporting that Op Grange detectives were in Bulgaria in 2017 looking for a woman. Was this connected? Maybe they weren't looking for a woman connected to the Ocean Club, but for one connected to Busching.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
You crease me sometimes. Personally, I think that you are quite a nice and ordinary woman who overcame emotional problems. But then turned your spite on others who were more fortunate. Spite is such a bad and negative thing, but only for yourself. You actually aren't capable of harming The McCanns.
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Frankly, I don't care whether Busching received lenient treatment or payment for his information or not - we know it's a tactic police use, but usually to solve a crime they are investigating and desperate to solve themselves. I don't think the Greek police stood to gain much from incentivising Busching to invent a cock and bull story about a missing English child who never even set foot in their own country, in the vague hope that one day they may, just possibly, receive some credit for their part in the crime being solved.
No, I'm more interested in getting explanations to the following questions from those who believe Busching invented all the claims he has made re: Bruckner.
Firstly - why Bruckner? What did he do to deserve to be treated in this way by his old mate?
Secondly - at what point did Busching rope in Seyferth to back up his invented stories about the rape and about Madeleine and why?
Thirdly - why did Seyferth go along with the deception? What was in it for him?
Fourthly - why did Seyferth (having gone along with the deception) then given an account of the rape which differed to that which Busching had allegedly invented, and why bad mouth him at a later date to the press ("he'd do anything for the money")?
Fifthly - how, having allegedly falsely accused Bruckner of committing rapes, was a hair matching Bruckner's found at the scene of a rape which bore many of the hallmarks of the rapes as described by B & S on the videos? Was it pure coincidence? Did they somehow manage to plant the hair there so that years later they could dob their old mate in it?
I'm sure more questions will occur to me in time, but those will do for now.
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Frankly, I don't care whether Busching received lenient treatment or payment for his information or not - we know it's a tactic police use, but usually to solve a crime they are investigating and desperate to solve themselves. I don't think the Greek police stood to gain much from incentivising Busching to invent a cock and bull story about a missing English child who never even set foot in their own country, in the vague hope that one day they may, just possibly, receive some credit for their part in the crime being solved.
No, I'm more interested in getting explanations to the following questions from those who believe Busching invented all the claims he has made re: Bruckner.
Firstly - why Bruckner? What did he do to deserve to be treated in this way by his old mate?
Secondly - at what point did Busching rope in Seyferth to back up his invented stories about the rape and about Madeleine and why?
Thirdly - why did Seyferth go along with the deception? What was in it for him?
Fourthly - why did Seyferth (having gone along with the deception) then given an account of the rape which differed to that which Busching had allegedly invented, and why bad mouth him at a later date to the press ("he'd do anything for the money")?
Fifthly - how, having allegedly falsely accused Bruckner of committing rapes, was a hair matching Bruckner's found at the scene of a rape which bore many of the hallmarks of the rapes as described by B & S on the videos? Was it pure coincidence? Did they somehow manage to plant the hair there so that years later they could dob their old mate in it?
I'm sure more questions will occur to me in time, but those will do for now.
The Hair was retained by Portugal. It was a match to Brueckner. That is the end of that one. Plead what they may.
There was a psychopathic monster wandering unchecked out there. He is now very firmly locked up. Anyone who actively defends him is very nearly as sick as he is.
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The Hair was retained by Portugal. It was a match to Brueckner. That is the end of that one. Plead what they may.
There was a psychopathic monster wandering unchecked out there. He is now very firmly locked up. Anyone who actively defends him is very nearly as sick as he is.
Well, I don't care what you think. I still prefer Brueckner to the McCanns.
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Another question - why is it hard to believe that a man who we know for certain has chatted on the internet with another paedophile about his desire to capture, imprison, rape and kill "something small" might also confess to his part in one of the most famous missing children cases that took place in the locale where he was living at the time? He may of course have been bullshitting, but how is Busching to know that for certain one way or the other? How would Busching have known about this conversation in 2017 when he told the police about Bruckner's confession?
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So he was arrested for trafficking in 2011, but failed to turn up to face the charges and left for France (probably). He returned to Greece for a holiday in 2015, was re-arrested and sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. So he was wanted in Greece for four years.
I wonder why he was imprisoned in Chania in April 2015? Was this a different case? Interestingly the UK press were reporting that Op Grange detectives were in Bulgaria in 2017 looking for a woman. Was this connected? Maybe they weren't looking for a woman connected to the Ocean Club, but for one connected to Busching.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
👀👀OOOoooh ... you are a one, aintcha! Choosing to highlight the efficiency of the Greek police and legal system. While painstakingly airbrushing the incompetence of the Portuguese from history.
It appears that the innocent until proven guilty offender in Greece was picked up on returning four years down the line to be arrested, tried and sentenced (no doubt consideration being given to the fact that he had broken a legal undertaking four years earlier to appear in court. "Contempt" or something similar.)
We know Brueckner was extradited from Italy to Germany where he was to stand trial accused of a horrible, aggravated rape for which he was subsequently convicted.
But we also know that in 2007 Brueckner was on Portuguese police radar in the McCann inquiry.
Helge Busching was on Greek police radar and he stayed there for four years until he reappeared on holiday to Greece which led to him being picked up to have his day in court.
Conversely Brueckner came and went through Portugal as often as it suited him for fifteen and was never picked up.
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Frankly, I don't care whether Busching received lenient treatment or payment for his information or not - we know it's a tactic police use, but usually to solve a crime they are investigating and desperate to solve themselves. I don't think the Greek police stood to gain much from incentivising Busching to invent a cock and bull story about a missing English child who never even set foot in their own country, in the vague hope that one day they may, just possibly, receive some credit for their part in the crime being solved.
No, I'm more interested in getting explanations to the following questions from those who believe Busching invented all the claims he has made re: Bruckner.
Firstly - why Bruckner? What did he do to deserve to be treated in this way by his old mate?
Secondly - at what point did Busching rope in Seyferth to back up his invented stories about the rape and about Madeleine and why?
Thirdly - why did Seyferth go along with the deception? What was in it for him?
Fourthly - why did Seyferth (having gone along with the deception) then given an account of the rape which differed to that which Busching had allegedly invented, and why bad mouth him at a later date to the press ("he'd do anything for the money")?
Fifthly - how, having allegedly falsely accused Bruckner of committing rapes, was a hair matching Bruckner's found at the scene of a rape which bore many of the hallmarks of the rapes as described by B & S on the videos? Was it pure coincidence? Did they somehow manage to plant the hair there so that years later they could dob their old mate in it?
I'm sure more questions will occur to me in time, but those will do for now.
In response to your "Fourthly" question ~
I don’t know anything about the different evidence given about the rapes. But my thoughts are “did they describe the same outrage. Or did they describe two or even three or more different rapes”.
We know that Brueckner had an MO which included photographing and filming his assaults.
"Fifthly" do you think the cat was in on it?
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The Hair was retained by Portugal. It was a match to Brueckner. That is the end of that one. Plead what they may.
There was a psychopathic monster wandering unchecked out there. He is now very firmly locked up. Anyone who actively defends him is very nearly as sick as he is.
I've got to agree with that, adding only that we don't know the half of it and we probably never will.
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Another question - why is it hard to believe that a man who we know for certain has chatted on the internet with another paedophile about his desire to capture, imprison, rape and kill "something small" might also confess to his part in one of the most famous missing children cases that took place in the locale where he was living at the time? He may of course have been bullshitting, but how is Busching to know that for certain one way or the other? How would Busching have known about this conversation in 2017 when he told the police about Bruckner's confession?
There were some thoughts regarding whether or not Brueckner sometimes had an accomplice. Maybe he was testing the water with some of his friends to see if they were up for it. I think this might be something other witnesses have brought to the German investigation. His undertaker friend is one that springs to mind.
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Exactly….as far as you know. How far is that?
You will be surprised.
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What gets me is the assumed naivety of the belief that investigators are primed to accept uncorroborated statements without checking and comparing with all the other evidence available to them in the case they are working.
Nothing is ever accepted at face value. Checks and balances would have been carried out on the information held by Helge Busching and its credibility assessed.
To think and say otherwise is extremely desperate and naive.
The big mystery is the motivation of some. Very obvious lies about dreadlocks and cartoons are deemed irrefutable when announced to the media by one criminal - but evidence given privately to the police by another who is not seeking publicity and notoriety is immediately pounced on for ridicule. All because the lie at the heart of their belief system is challenged and demolished.
How do you check out a claim that someone said something to someone on a certain day?
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👀👀OOOoooh ... you are a one, aintcha! Choosing to highlight the efficiency of the Greek police and legal system. While painstakingly airbrushing the incompetence of the Portuguese from history.
It appears that the innocent until proven guilty offender in Greece was picked up on returning four years down the line to be arrested, tried and sentenced (no doubt consideration being given to the fact that he had broken a legal undertaking four years earlier to appear in court. "Contempt" or something similar.)
We know Brueckner was extradited from Italy to Germany where he was to stand trial accused of a horrible, aggravated rape for which he was subsequently convicted.
But we also know that in 2007 Brueckner was on Portuguese police radar in the McCann inquiry.
Helge Busching was on Greek police radar and he stayed there for four years until he reappeared on holiday to Greece which led to him being picked up to have his day in court.
Conversely Brueckner came and went through Portugal as often as it suited him for fifteen and was never picked up.
Do you mean the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ Brueckner?
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How do you check out a claim that someone said something to someone on a certain day?
It’s quite simple. Busching makes a claim that he and another were involved in discovery of the rape tape and so the police interview the other guy to see if the story and other claims made pan out. If they don’t then guy’s a bullshitter, if they do then they have a certain amount of credibility. Throw in a loose rapist’s hair and bingo, his claims look even more reliable. Any more questions? Oh wait, you weren’t talking to me @)(++(*