Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 02:31:56 AM
Title: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 02:31:56 AM
After almost five months searching for a child that didn't appear, following every lead for the most fantasist sightings imaginable, the second hypothesis, also supported by a British expert (that the child had not been abducted but had died) had finally gotten some confirmation from the forensic analysis conducted by FSS (not conclusive but indicative nevertheless).
On September, 7th, 2007, Mrs Kate Healy was questioned by the Polícia Judiciária (Inspectors João Carlos, Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Paiva). The first part of the interview was about generalities like, how was Madeleine's behaviour, her relationship with her siblings, her relation with parents and relatives, etc.
After that they had to introduce recent data from the investigation and according to Portuguese Process Penal Code it was necessary to grant Ms Healy all the means to her defense in case her answers could incriminate her. So she was declared arguido, which granted her, unlike before (as witness) the right to not respond or even to lie.
Ms Healy, had already been alerted by the PJ that she would be considered arguido during this interview, by her liason Inspector ( a privilege that is granted to practically nobody), Mr. Ricardo Paiva, and as such she was accompanied by her lawyer.
The questions asked were: [Taken from the Telegraph.co.uk so my translation won't be cause for questioning]
1- On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?
2- Did you search inside the master bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)
3- (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?
4- Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (whose photo was shown to her) been tampered with? Did somebody go behind that sofa?
5- How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?
6- Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?
7- Assuming Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins home alone to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? Because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.
8- Why didn’t you ask the twins, at that moment, what had happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?
9- When you raised the alarm at the ‘Tapas’ what exactly did you say and what were your exact words?
10- What happened after you raised the alarm in the ‘Tapas’?
11- Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?
12- Who contacted the authorities?
13- Who took place in the searches?
14- Did anyone outside of the group learn of Madeleine’s disappearance in those following minutes?
15- Did any neighbour offer you help after the disappearance?
16- What does “we let her down” mean?
17- Did Jane tell you that night that she’d seen a man with a child?
18- How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?
19- During the searches, with the police already there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?
20- Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?
21- Who did you phone after the occurrence?
22- Did you call Sky News?
23- Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?
24- Did you ask for a priest?
25- By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?
26- Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?
27- What was your behaviour that night?
28- Did you manage to sleep?
29- Before travelling to Portugal did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?
30- What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?
31- Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?
32- What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?
33- What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?
34- As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?
35- What is your medical specialty?
36- Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?
37- Did you work every day?
38- At a certain point you stopped working, why?
39- Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?
40- Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy?
41- Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?
42- In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?
43- In the case files you were forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
44- When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45- When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46- When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47- When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
48- Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?
A Question She Did Answer
- Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardizing the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?
- “Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.”
Is this a reasonable behaviour from a mother whose child had missing for more about 5 months? She didn't cooperate with the investigation, she didn't request for the process to stay open in order to proceed the investigation, all she wanted was a review that will only go through what has already been investigated, she doesn't have any PIs investigating anymore but continues expecting donations to the Fund...
WHY DIDN'T MRS. HEALY/MCCANN COOPERATE WITH THE POLICE?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 02:36:38 AM
Ok, I'll be the first one to respond.
She didn't answer because she was afraid that if she told the truth she would implicate herself and if lying she could be judged for perjury.
But what answer could implicate this mother of a disappeared child? That's what we cannot understand if she is totally innocent of any wrongdoing.
Admin note: She wasn't under oath so she couldn't have been prosecuted for perjury.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 02:40:22 AM
She didn't answer because she was afraid that if she told the truth she would implicate herself and if lying she could be judged for perjury.
I'll be the second. She didn't answer simply because she was told not to by her lawyer. He had some reasons for that, might have exposed them to her, and convinced her.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Eleanor on April 25, 2013, 02:50:31 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 02:52:15 AM
She didn't answer because she was afraid that if she told the truth she would implicate herself and if lying she could be judged for perjury.
I'll be the second. She didn't answer simply because she was told not to by her lawyer. He had some reasons for that, might have exposed them to her, and convinced her.
Yes. In fact I suspect that it was from that probable conversation between client and attorney that arouse that ridiculous allegation, offered by Ms. Filomena to the media, that Kate Healy had been offered a deal by the police. Probably the lawyer explained to her that if she confessed she would be condemned for aggravated negligence and not for murder or manslaughter as she eventually risked.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 02:55:17 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
If there is proof against the testimony, yes you commit perjury if you repeat in court what you declared in the police questioning.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 03:02:11 AM
What does it matter if it's the full questionary or not?! As a matter of fact it is and it is the one published by the Telegraph, so you trolls wouldn't accuse me of distorting the translation.
What is in question is WHY DIDN'T SHE ANSWER.
Cowards, you don't answer, do you?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 03:03:06 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
I don't think you should comment Mrs McCann's attitude, Luz. As an arguida you have the right not to answer, but properly speaking you've not a right to lie (even if you do..) ! Silence here means everything and nothing.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 03:07:31 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
If there is proof against the testimony, yes you commit perjury if you repeat in court what you declared in the police questioning.
I thought that a witness' testimony only had value when repeated in court by the witness, whereas an arguido didn't have to repeat his/her statement in court.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 03:14:18 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Luz on April 25, 2013, 03:14:38 AM
Anne Guedes, I think that her silence in here means everything.
She didn't speak so that she wouldn't compromise herself. We know that only what is produced in Court is valid for the trial, but if she had spoken and in Court said something different or refused to answer (like Leonor Cipriano did) it could be sensed as very incriminating, even though she didn't offer any evidence.
That's my opinion, anyway.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 06:30:34 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
If there is proof against the testimony, yes you commit perjury if you repeat in court what you declared in the police questioning.
"NO" Give me any reference to a case where someone has been convicted of perjury in court for lying to the court in their own defence. People do it everyday and there are vanishingly small cases of perjury heard.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
What does it matter if it's the full questionary or not?! As a matter of fact it is and it is the one published by the Telegraph, so you trolls wouldn't accuse me of distorting the translation.
What is in question is WHY DIDN'T SHE ANSWER.
Cowards, you don't answer, do you?
She didn't answer because she had the RIGHT under Portuguese Law to not answer.
If I thought the police were trying to build a case against me, I would 'no comment' like this until the cows come home.
Under the Rule of Law the State has to produce evidence; they can no longer force suspects to incriminate themselves (although there is excellent documentary evidence that this has been the case in Portugal.)
A better question might be to ask why the McCanns were made Arguido ion the day before Portugal was forced by the European Court to change its rules on questioning. The day on which they were made Arguido was the last day when only 'suspicion of committing a crime' was replaced by 'reasonable suspicion of committing a crime'. The PJ knew they did not have enough evidence to show 'reasonable suspicion and so tried to circumvent the new law.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 06:38:02 AM
That is not the full transcription of The Question.
You cannot be adjudged of perjury if you are an Arguida and are later proved to have been lying.
Not a good start to this Thread.
If there is proof against the testimony, yes you commit perjury if you repeat in court what you declared in the police questioning.
I thought that a witness' testimony only had value when repeated in court by the witness, whereas an arguido didn't have to repeat his/her statement in court.
Immaterial.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 06:39:31 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 06:41:50 AM
Anne Guedes, I think that her silence in here means everything.
She didn't speak so that she wouldn't compromise herself. We know that only what is produced in Court is valid for the trial, but if she had spoken and in Court said something different or refused to answer (like Leonor Cipriano did) it could be sensed as very incriminating, even though she didn't offer any evidence.
That's my opinion, anyway.
You do not understand the Rule of Law, Burden of Proof, Burden of Evidence, or Presumption of Innocence.
I am pretty sure that you see all these as having been forced on Portugal and so not part of the State Apparatus that passed for the Law there until relatively recently.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Lace on April 25, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
Kate didn't answer the questions, as her lawyer had advised against it.
What would you do if suddenly the tables had turned, they showed you a video of dogs who were supposedly alerting to cadaver scent in the apartment where your child had gone missing?
Being told there was 100% DNA found of your child in the apartment?
Would you not think to yourself, hang on a minute they think I have done soemthing to my child. Wouldn't you think they are going to find something in my answers to twist so that I am suspected of doing something.
Kate was advised not to answer because of this.
I wouldn't of answered either.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:26:48 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
I wish you were courteous, nurse Debunker, and read carefully : If I were... is clearly hypothetical. Nobody knows why KMC didn't answer. So, if you want to stick to facts, which is your absolute right, you better not surf on this thread.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Carana on April 25, 2013, 11:32:08 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Was Gerry advised to answer the questions?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 11:34:58 AM
What does it matter if it's the full questionary or not?! As a matter of fact it is and it is the one published by the Telegraph, so you trolls wouldn't accuse me of distorting the translation.
What is in question is WHY DIDN'T SHE ANSWER.
Cowards, you don't answer, do you?
She didn't answer because she had the RIGHT under Portuguese Law to not answer.
If I thought the police were trying to build a case against me, I would 'no comment' like this until the cows come home.
Under the Rule of Law the State has to produce evidence; they can no longer force suspects to incriminate themselves (although there is excellent documentary evidence that this has been the case in Portugal.)
A better question might be to ask why the McCanns were made Arguido ion the day before Portugal was forced by the European Court to change its rules on questioning. The day on which they were made Arguido was the last day when only 'suspicion of committing a crime' was replaced by 'reasonable suspicion of committing a crime'. The PJ knew they did not have enough evidence to show 'reasonable suspicion and so tried to circumvent the new law.
In your opinion.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 11:42:04 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
I wish you were courteous, nurse Debunker, and read carefully : If I were... is clearly hypothetical. Nobody knows why KMC didn't answer. So, if you want to stick to facts, which is your absolute right, you better not surf on this thread.
The conditional 'If' certainly makes it clear that you are constructing a fairy tale.
UNfortunarely the conditional does not apply to your rhetorical question and subsequent statement "Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery." That requires telepathy.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 11:43:20 AM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
Kate didn't answer the questions, as her lawyer had advised against it.
What would you do if suddenly the tables had turned, they showed you a video of dogs who were supposedly alerting to cadaver scent in the apartment where your child had gone missing?
Being told there was 100% DNA found of your child in the apartment?
Would you not think to yourself, hang on a minute they think I have done soemthing to my child. Wouldn't you think they are going to find something in my answers to twist so that I am suspected of doing something.
Kate was advised not to answer because of this.
I wouldn't of answered either.
Mrs McCann wasn't petrified when she saw the video, though, she found it not convincing, as many on this forum and elsewhere and as me (but I decided to trust Mark Harrison). I'm a bit amazed the idea Madeleine could have been killed in the flat by the carrier, accidentally or not (more likely accidentally), before being carried away, was rejected. Why ? Blindness, refusal to face a possible reality ? If the MC case has shown something, it is that the UK protects and assists and advises very well and generously its citizens when abroad. So I don't buy the argument Mrs McCann risked to be the victim of an illegitimate procedure. This is a myth Philomena MC, out of disinformation I suppose, clumsily but successfully spread.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:46:24 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
I wish you were courteous, nurse Debunker, and read carefully : If I were... is clearly hypothetical. Nobody knows why KMC didn't answer. So, if you want to stick to facts, which is your absolute right, you better not surf on this thread.
You are absolutely right, no one does know why Kate didn't answer the questions while Gerry, under the same threat of self-incrimination, did. What is less clear still is why, after refusing to answer questions the police felt would take the investigation forward, the McCanns effectively lied to the media by claiming they had answered all the questions asked of them and were helping the investigation when it is clear, no matter what the reasons, that that is exactly what they weren't doing.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 11:50:35 AM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
I wish you were courteous, nurse Debunker, and read carefully : If I were... is clearly hypothetical. Nobody knows why KMC didn't answer. So, if you want to stick to facts, which is your absolute right, you better not surf on this thread.
The conditional 'If' certainly makes it clear that you are constructing a fairy tale.
UNfortunarely the conditional does not apply to your rhetorical question and subsequent statement "Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery." That requires telepathy.
You know perfectly well it was part and end of what you call (rightly) a fairy tale.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 11:52:03 AM
A brief excerpt from the arguido interview.
Given what we know about the forensic results, would Luz care to comment? ______________
"--- Signalled the presence of human blood in the trunk of the same vehicle, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:54:57 AM
Debunker : If I thought the police were trying to build a case against me, I would 'no comment' like this until the cows come home. "thought" ? What do you mean ? If you there were facts supporting you're thinking the police... ? Not understandable, sorry : If you knew of facts that support your thought the police were trying to build a case against you, you would... ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 11:57:43 AM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
Certainly lying if they said it was a 100% match. But did they it or is it a myth ? JP says "I believe"...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
Kate didn't answer the questions, as her lawyer had advised against it.
What would you do if suddenly the tables had turned, they showed you a video of dogs who were supposedly alerting to cadaver scent in the apartment where your child had gone missing?
Being told there was 100% DNA found of your child in the apartment?
Would you not think to yourself, hang on a minute they think I have done soemthing to my child. Wouldn't you think they are going to find something in my answers to twist so that I am suspected of doing something.
Kate was advised not to answer because of this.
I wouldn't of answered either.
Mrs McCann wasn't petrified when she saw the video, though, she found it not convincing, as many on this forum and elsewhere and as me (but I decided to trust Mark Harrison). I'm a bit amazed the idea Madeleine could have been killed in the flat by the carrier, accidentally or not (more likely accidentally), before being carried away, was rejected. Why ? Blindness, refusal to face a possible reality ? If the MC case has shown something, it is that the UK protects and assists and advises very well and generously its citizens when abroad. So I don't buy the argument Mrs McCann risked to be the victim of an illegitimate procedure. This is a myth Philomena MC, out of disinformation I suppose, clumsily but successfully spread.
If the alleged abductor had killed Madeleine then taken her body with him there would not have been enough time for the cadaver scent to develop. For there to have been time for cadaver scent to develop Madeleine would have to have been dead before her parents left the apartment or very shortly afterwards but certainly not after 9.05-9.15 when Gerry claimed to have seen her last. The police knew this as did the Mccanns and thus the necessity to discredit the dogs.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 12:01:33 PM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
yes it is. Which is one of the reasons for those interviewed under caution to be legally represented. And for the right to remain silent, without that being held against should teh case subsequently come to court.
Much has been made of Kate McCanns refusal to answer the "48 questions". What do those who use this to imply that she has something to hide or is guilty, make of the police blatently lying in order to try to trap her?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 12:06:48 PM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
yes it is. Which is one of the reasons for those interviewed under caution to be legally represented. And for the right to remain silent, without that being held against should teh case subsequently come to court.
Much has been made of Kate McCanns refusal to answer the "48 questions". What do those who use this to imply that she has something to hide or is guilty, make of the police blatently lying in order to try to trap her?
If it had subsequently proved that she had harmed her daughter I don't think they'd have been in the least concerned.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 12:08:08 PM
If I were a lawyer, had to support two arguidos and had read in their statements some contradictions, I'd probably and carefully tell one not to answer to no question and tell the other to answer to all questions. First step at least. There never was a second one, good for him ! Why was Kate chosen as the silent one ? Because she had the most delicate part, the discovery.
Telepathic are you?
You are free to construct any fairy tale you want, but rather than state it as fact, please lable it as a guess before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
I wish you were courteous, nurse Debunker, and read carefully : If I were... is clearly hypothetical. Nobody knows why KMC didn't answer. So, if you want to stick to facts, which is your absolute right, you better not surf on this thread.
You are absolutely right, no one does know why Kate didn't answer the questions while Gerry, under the same threat of self-incrimination, did. What is less clear still is why, after refusing to answer questions the police felt would take the investigation forward, the McCanns effectively lied to the media by claiming they had answered all the questions asked of them and were helping the investigation when it is clear, no matter what the reasons, that that is exactly what they weren't doing.
Not that I expect you to do it- Cite? For the McCanns 'lying' and claiming that they had answered all the questions.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
Certainly lying if they said it was a 100% match. But did they it or is it a myth ? JP says "I believe"...
"--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
British police may NOT lie to interviewees. You watch too much bad TV. English rules of evidence do not allow statements gained from lies told by the police. In the USA it is legal.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 12:12:31 PM
@ faithlilly "If it had subsequently proved that she had harmed her daughter I don't think they'd have been in the least concerned."
As they haven't, then they should be. Or do you think the end justifies the means.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Kate didn't answer the questions, as her lawyer had advised against it.
What would you do if suddenly the tables had turned, they showed you a video of dogs who were supposedly alerting to cadaver scent in the apartment where your child had gone missing?
Being told there was 100% DNA found of your child in the apartment?
Would you not think to yourself, hang on a minute they think I have done soemthing to my child. Wouldn't you think they are going to find something in my answers to twist so that I am suspected of doing something.
Kate was advised not to answer because of this.
I wouldn't of answered either.
Mrs McCann wasn't petrified when she saw the video, though, she found it not convincing, as many on this forum and elsewhere and as me (but I decided to trust Mark Harrison). I'm a bit amazed the idea Madeleine could have been killed in the flat by the carrier, accidentally or not (more likely accidentally), before being carried away, was rejected. Why ? Blindness, refusal to face a possible reality ? If the MC case has shown something, it is that the UK protects and assists and advises very well and generously its citizens when abroad. So I don't buy the argument Mrs McCann risked to be the victim of an illegitimate procedure. This is a myth Philomena MC, out of disinformation I suppose, clumsily but successfully spread.
If the alleged abductor had killed Madeleine then taken her body with him there would not have been enough time for the cadaver scent to develop. For there to have been time for cadaver scent to develop Madeleine would have to have been dead before her parents left the apartment or very shortly afterwards but certainly not after 9.05-9.15 when Gerry claimed to have seen her last. The police knew this as did the Mccanns and thus the necessity to discredit the dogs.
There is no reliable evidence that there was a cadaver in 5a. Read the dog threads.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 12:19:36 PM
Kate didn't answer the questions, as her lawyer had advised against it.
What would you do if suddenly the tables had turned, they showed you a video of dogs who were supposedly alerting to cadaver scent in the apartment where your child had gone missing?
Being told there was 100% DNA found of your child in the apartment?
Would you not think to yourself, hang on a minute they think I have done soemthing to my child. Wouldn't you think they are going to find something in my answers to twist so that I am suspected of doing something.
Kate was advised not to answer because of this.
I wouldn't of answered either.
Mrs McCann wasn't petrified when she saw the video, though, she found it not convincing, as many on this forum and elsewhere and as me (but I decided to trust Mark Harrison). I'm a bit amazed the idea Madeleine could have been killed in the flat by the carrier, accidentally or not (more likely accidentally), before being carried away, was rejected. Why ? Blindness, refusal to face a possible reality ? If the MC case has shown something, it is that the UK protects and assists and advises very well and generously its citizens when abroad. So I don't buy the argument Mrs McCann risked to be the victim of an illegitimate procedure. This is a myth Philomena MC, out of disinformation I suppose, clumsily but successfully spread.
If the alleged abductor had killed Madeleine then taken her body with him there would not have been enough time for the cadaver scent to develop. For there to have been time for cadaver scent to develop Madeleine would have to have been dead before her parents left the apartment or very shortly afterwards but certainly not after 9.05-9.15 when Gerry claimed to have seen her last. The police knew this as did the Mccanns and thus the necessity to discredit the dogs.
Out of reason Mrs McCann had to infer that no stranger could be involved, but I meant an emotional reaction I'm surprised she didn't have.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 12:27:45 PM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
British police may NOT lie to interviewees. You watch too much bad TV. English rules of evidence do not allow statements gained from lies told by the police. In the USA it is legal.
As usual you assume far too much.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 12:37:03 PM
I'm shocked to read here and there unpleasant and factly unfounded comments on the Portuguese police. If there's one thing I don't doubt in this tenebrous case, it is the care the various Portuguese forces deployed to try and find a little girl they were immediately very concerned with. They did mistakes, the first of it was due to their fatal inferiority complex, but they can't be suspected of neglect. I find it interesting to analyse those mistakes, but not fair to make global negative judgements. I'm sure for example GA isn't a "[ censored word ]". I crossed his way in a court corridor, I looked at him, he turned his eyes. I'm not and I don't look Portuguese, so I thought : gosh this guy was badly hurt.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 12:39:45 PM
@ faithlilly "If it had subsequently proved that she had harmed her daughter I don't think they'd have been in the least concerned."
As they haven't, then they should be. Or do you think the end justifies the means.
In some cases, such as the death of a child, absolutely, unless the 'means' involves torture.
And herein lies a problem. Where would you draw the line? "inventing" evidence? "lying" about the evidence? And what if this produces a false confession from an emotionally vulnerable suspect. Would you see that as an acceptable outcome?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Carana on April 25, 2013, 12:41:54 PM
"--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
@ faithlilly "If it had subsequently proved that she had harmed her daughter I don't think they'd have been in the least concerned."
As they haven't, then they should be. Or do you think the end justifies the means.
In some cases, such as the death of a child, absolutely, unless the 'means' involves torture.
There are very complex cases on the ethics point of view. Is torture to be put aside if someone's life is at stake ? Imo certainly, if no life is in danger.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 12:46:30 PM
"--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Therefore she was not withholding information or hiding anything which might have helped find Madeleine.
The formal questionning the following day as an aguida was simply the police playing games. Her lawyer was aware of this (I assume) and quite properly advised her to answer "no comment". In my opinion this was good advice.
I believe Mr McCann was shown a report on Madeleines DNA and told that they had found a 100% match. This does rather suggest the police were on a fishing expedition.
Or lying?
It is a basic police technique. That we are mostly unaware of it here is because most police interrogations are never made public.
British police may NOT lie to interviewees. You watch too much bad TV. English rules of evidence do not allow statements gained from lies told by the police. In the USA it is legal.
As usual you assume far too much.
"Unlike their American counterparts, U.K. police interviewers are not allowed to lie to suspects or present them with false evidence in order to obtain a confession, further reducing the likelihood of a false confession (Kassin et al., 2010). In addition, the entire interview process in all interviews in England and Wales is electronically recorded"
http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/20/1/33.full
Note the process- rebuttal followed by cite.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 01:17:10 PM
It is true that Mrs McCann answered quite a few of the questions along various interviews. Was she, consciously or not, trying to compensate her refusal to answer ? Those questions aren't stressing questions, what would you consider "tricky" in the first one On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch? Note that Mrs McCann didn't mention where she looked nor what she touched in her statement. The open window irresistibly indicated where to search, imo. Did Mrs McCann open the door to look and listen outside ? Was the key on the lock, with her or left at the restaurant with Mr McCann ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 25, 2013, 06:18:22 PM
In her book, Kate gives a clear and definite reason for not answering police questions. She was following the advice of Carlos Pinto de Abreu, her lawyer
It should be mentioned that this lawyer was at the McCann's villa until 4.00 am the night before
He had accompanied Kate home after the first day of questioning, and she says, in her book, that she was horrified by his advice that she should consider confessing that Madeleine had died in the apartment and her body was hidden or disposed of
Kate goes on to say her confidence in Carlos evaporated almost as quickly as her faith in Portuguese justice, and that not being able to tell if he believed them or not was a major worry, to put it mildly
She added that she was no longer sure he had the backbone to stand up for them, and that Gerry had demanded whether or not Carlos felt he was up to the job
A few hours later she was, it appears, following his instructions without question
In the circumstances, and given Kate's obvious lack of faith in her lawyer, she might, rather, have followed the advice given by police liaison officer, Bob Small ( described by Kate as 'one of the good guys' ) the night before :
... "Just tell the truth"
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 25, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
I shan't take the thread off-topic, but Snr De Abreau was swept away by the Eddie-and-Keela-roadshow ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Redblossom on April 25, 2013, 06:36:53 PM
If you look at the report on Mrs McCanns interview the day before, from the files, you will see that she had already answered the questions, whilst a witness.
Where in the files can I find where Kate Mccann already answered those 48 questions? Because the answers are not in her 6th September interview. The questions (in the 49 lot from 7th September) asking if she had said what she had said when presented with dog and dna related evidence, ie that she couldn't explain anymore than she already had, suggests she made an answer about those issues, but where is it? Surely not, that she had been on contact with dead bodies previous and that could be an explanation? A formal or informal interview seems to be missing from the files.Those are the only questions put which suggest they were put before and answered, not all of them from the arguido interview.
Clarence Mitchell's interview on this issue from BBC after the files were publically released back in summer of 2008
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 25, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
the refusal to answer questions is taken completely out of context. Kate had answerred questions over two sessions totalling over 20 hours or thereabouts before she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her. Does anyone know how long Kate had answerred questions during that session before her solicitor decided enough was enough.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 25, 2013, 06:42:20 PM
Kate had answerred questions over two sessions totalling over 20 hours or thereabouts before she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
Vital point.
Welcome to the board davel ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 06:44:36 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Pure defamation why?
Where is the evidence that the McCanns wanted to put Madeleine up for adoption (one of the questions)?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 25, 2013, 06:53:08 PM
AnneGuedes. Considering the questions that the PJ put to Mrs McCann as an aguida, wherethey honest and truthful about the "evidence" they held?
"--- Signalled the presence of human blood in the trunk of the same vehicle, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned. --- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
I would suggest that on this basis Davel would be making "fair comment".
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 06:59:09 PM
A formal or informal interview seems to be missing from the files.
Hi Redblossom ! You're right, they had an informal interview on August 8 (the day after the samples were sent to Birmingham) referred to by GMC (blog) : At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. Yet there's nothing in the files.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 25, 2013, 07:01:32 PM
AnneGuedes. Considering the questions that the PJ put to Mrs McCann as an aguida, wherethey honest and truthful about the "evidence" they held?
"--- Signalled the presence of human blood in the trunk of the same vehicle, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned. --- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned."
I would suggest that on this basis Davel would be making "fair comment".
They said Keela found blood in the car, they didn't affirm it was Madeleine's and KMC had the right to answer what she did. Did they speak of "the result of the collection of DNA of Madeleine" ? It doesn't make sense, Collected DNA as well doesn't. I have to check on the Portuguese original.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
The PJ inspectors could believe what they wanted, but they certainly didn't say "we believe Madeleine died in the flat et we'll question you in order to incriminate you" ! This is pure speculation, eventually defamation.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Redblossom on April 25, 2013, 07:12:41 PM
A formal or informal interview seems to be missing from the files.
Hi Redblossom ! You're right, they had an informal interview on August 8 (the day after the samples were sent to Birmingham) referred to by GMC (blog) : At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. Yet there's nothing in the files.
Thanks Anne, that would make sense. As it was straight after the dogs deployment in early August, except for question 47 which could not have been asked at an August meeting as the DNA results didnt go through till September.
I am surprised that even informal interviews were not recorded though, especially or at least by that stage.
ETA @ davel, since when have police officers beliefs or conclusions working on a case, defamation?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 25, 2013, 07:16:50 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Pure defamation why?
Where is the evidence that the McCanns wanted to put Madeleine up for adoption (one of the questions)?
Why not, instead of having police inspectors interviewing persons of interest in a hot case of missing child, have persons of interest interviewing police inspectors about their motives to interview them ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 25, 2013, 07:37:49 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
The PJ inspectors could believe what they wanted, but they certainly didn't say "we believe Madeleine died in the flat et we'll question you in order to incriminate you" ! This is pure speculation, eventually defamation.
Have you read the questions? what is your medical speciality? have you ever done shift work?
how are those questions going to help catch an abductor? talking of defamation, Amaral has been described as a bent, disgraced cop in the uk. The uk is the easiest country in europe to sue for defamation. why hasn't he sued? perhaps he has no defence.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 25, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
Have you read the questions? what is your medical speciality? have you ever done shift work?
how are those questions going to help catch an abductor? talking of defamation, Amaral has been described as a bent, disgraced cop in the uk. The uk is the easiest country in europe to sue for defamation. why hasn't he sued? perhaps he has no defence.
I"ve read the questions, yes. I'm not a doctor. I never did shift work. See how I answer your questions ! Am I not nice ? The questions asked to Mrs McCann were not properly intending to catch an abductor, but to confirm or eliminate the abduction hypothesis. For example in the first question KMC was asked what she touched when she entered the bed room. Had she said "I went to the window to look outside", then her fingerprints on the window would gain some justification.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 25, 2013, 10:30:41 PM
The suggestion that Kate McCann was being 'framed' by the police is quite a ridiculous one, to me
This case was being watched on rolling 24 hour news ... senior politicians, including Prime Ministers were involved ... diplomats and seconded government officials were on hand ... celebrities and millionaire backers were watching with interest ... the world's press were primed and ready to go at a moment's notice
This case ... of all cases ... was at minimum risk of police wrong-doing
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Redblossom on April 25, 2013, 10:33:04 PM
Exactly
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 25, 2013, 10:42:45 PM
You may be a little surprised by this response, but I don't altogether disagree with you.
Ultimately, the McCanns were exonerated, which clearly they wouldn't have been if there had been a mindset to frame the McCanns.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, it is considered a legitimate police tactic to put psychological pressure on suspects to try to make them crack: the rationale being that if they have nothing to hide, they won't crack.
And there was some genuinely fine work done, much of it on the Portuguese side. PJ Inspector Dias in particular was very astute. And witness statements, taken by Portuguese policemen, went a long way to establishing that neither the McCanns, nor their friends, had anything to answer for.
In the very earliest stages, I think those Portuguese dog handlers were a (genuine) credit to their profession.
The Portuguese prosecutors deserve mention, too. They were even-handed and fair ...
So yes, I think a great deal that is credit
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 11:03:40 PM
A formal or informal interview seems to be missing from the files.
Hi Redblossom ! You're right, they had an informal interview on August 8 (the day after the samples were sent to Birmingham) referred to by GMC (blog) : At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. Yet there's nothing in the files.
And Kate's book totally contradicts Gerry's blog.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: faithlilly on April 25, 2013, 11:06:15 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
The PJ inspectors could believe what they wanted, but they certainly didn't say "we believe Madeleine died in the flat et we'll question you in order to incriminate you" ! This is pure speculation, eventually defamation.
Have you read the questions? what is your medical speciality? have you ever done shift work?
how are those questions going to help catch an abductor? talking of defamation, Amaral has been described as a bent, disgraced cop in the uk. The uk is the easiest country in europe to sue for defamation. why hasn't he sued? perhaps he has no defence.
Perhaps he doesn't have a fund with which to pay for libel litigation ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: amaraltheofficeboy on April 25, 2013, 11:06:59 PM
Quote
And Kate's book totally contradicts Gerry's blog.
what a b....r eh?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 25, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
and so it is...
as for the entire PJ mourning when Amaral got the boot - nonsense
his (then) wife was most aghast - saying that no one of the PJ bid him farewell - when he did his - 'stuff from the desk into the cardboard box thingy'
Bet the PJ were dancing on the nearest pub's tables instead
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 25, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
she realised that the pj simply wanted to continue questioning so as to incriminate her.
This is pure defamation.
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
and so it is...
as for the entire PJ mourning when Amaral got the boot - nonsense
his (then) wife was most aghast - saying that no one of the PJ bid him farewell - when he did his - 'stuff from the desk into the cardboard box thingy'
Bet the PJ were dancing on the nearest pub's tables instead
We have (of all people) Nigel Moore to thank for the revelation that when Amaral left the PJ service, his former colleagues were delighted to see the back of him ...
Here (according to Nigel Moore) is how Amaral was treated when he quit the PJ:
The 30th of June 2008 marked Gonçalo Amaral's last day of service for the PJ. It was a day that passed like many before, in a proud 27-year career, with the apprehension of two and a half tons of hashish and the detention of six traffickers. After handing in his duty pistol, his badge, his card and his service mobile phone it was time to close the door on a job which he had served proudly and to which he had dedicated his life.
For Gonçalo Amaral, it had been more than just a 'job'.
"He would have rather preferred being a cop until he died," says Sofia Leal, Gonçalo Amaral's wife, talking exclusively to 'mccannfiles.com'. "He loves me very much and he loves the girls, but he really lived for his job."
What should have been a momentous and joyous day, looking forward to the new chapter and new challenges of retirement - armed with the well wishes and plaudits of his colleagues - instead became tinged with sadness and profound disappointment.
"When Gonçalo went out of the PJ door there was no one saying goodbye to him. No director. No one. After a life dedicated to the PJ, it was what most got him down," says Sofia.
The nature of the departure, and premature retirement, made it difficult to get an aim for his life until he got busy with the presentations of his book, 'Maddie: A Verdade da Mentira'.
"Gonçalo had a bad time with his retirement, but it was the anonymous bloggers and common citizens that he met everyday in the street that were his support.
"Although we've tried to give him strength and hope, we were supposed to, weren't we? It was the people that he never knew before, and most of them he will never meet, that were the true providers of hope for Gonçalo Amaral."
Sofia was able to confirm that editions of 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' were now assured in France, Germany, Holland, Norway, Sweden and Finland. There is no concrete news of a UK release date yet, although negotiations are progressing well.
Quite ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 25, 2013, 11:19:13 PM
I'm sure there are many fine officers within the PJ - proud to serve and all that
Amaral - through his clear mishandling of both the Joana and Madeleine case - had become a liability though.
Amplified by the fact that the world's media were watching
And turning PT's finest into the Keystone cops - headline by headline
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 25, 2013, 11:21:56 PM
A formal or informal interview seems to be missing from the files.
Hi Redblossom ! You're right, they had an informal interview on August 8 (the day after the samples were sent to Birmingham) referred to by GMC (blog) : At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. Yet there's nothing in the files.
And Kate's book totally contradicts Gerry's blog.
You are quite right
Gerry's blog paints an entirely different picture to that of Kate's description of events, in her book
He presented it as a 'meeting' where it was confirmed that the police believed Madeleine was still alive
In her book, Kate acknowledges that during this 'meeting' police stated bluntly that they did not believe her version of events, and that she was wailing hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps
She adds that Gerry was visibly upset and shaken, and pleaded with police through his tears to tell them whether the inquiry had become one of murder
The answer from the police was indirect ... "You can probably guess that from our lack of response"
Gerry McCann's blog was very misleading, wasn't it ? ( I am not at all surprised that all of his blogs have, since, been removed )
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 25, 2013, 11:25:26 PM
Gerry McCann, in his blog, portrayed the meeting with police on 8th of august 2007 as a run-of-the-mill 'usual' event
It was nothing of the sort
In her book, Kate McCann makes it clear that the meeting was, in fact an interrogation where she and Gerry were questioned seperately ... it was a traumatic meeting, during which the McCanns were made aware that there had been a change in the direction in the investigation
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: amaraltheofficeboy on April 25, 2013, 11:33:22 PM
Gerry McCann, in his blog, portrayed the meeting with police on 8th of august 2007 as a run-of-the-mill 'usual' event
It was nothing of the sort
In her book, Kate McCann makes it clear that the meeting was, in fact an interrogation where she and Gerry were questioned seperately ... it was a traumatic meeting, during which the McCanns were made aware that there had been a change in the direction in the investigation
show the original blog
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 25, 2013, 11:34:58 PM
When was Gerry's blog written?
If before secrecy was lifted, he'd have been obliged not to reveal detail ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 25, 2013, 11:38:40 PM
If before secrecy was lifted, he'd have been obliged not to reveal detail ...
Actually, I hadn't thought of that
Even so, if he was prohibited from being honest about police events that day, best not to mention them at all ... rather than give an entirely false representation
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 25, 2013, 11:50:50 PM
If before secrecy was lifted, he'd have been obliged not to reveal detail ...
Actually, I hadn't thought of that
Even so, if he was prohibited from being honest about police events that day, best not to mention them at all ... rather than give an entirely false representation
where's your source material or are you continuing with myth making?
(a bit of a waste of time - as the acolytes and sheep have drifted away now)
You are in essence - posting to yourself
My 'source material'
Why, it is Gerry McCann's blog for august 8 2007, and Kate McCann's book, pages 213/214 ( the Warning Siirens chapter )
Just about as valid a 'source material' as you could ask for, wouldn't you say ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: amaraltheofficeboy on April 25, 2013, 11:55:41 PM
show the original blog
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 12:01:51 AM
08.08.2007 Kates parents left early this morning. We did a short interview on how our faith has helped us during the last 3 months since Madeleines abduction. Given the events of the last few days we need to draw even greater strength from our faith and everyone who has supported us. With the huge amount of media attention on us again it is very difficult to do anything with the kids without them being filmed and it is unfair on them. There is a huge amount of speculation in the media that Madeleine is dead, particularly with the obvious change in strategy of the investigation recently. At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this belief that has driven everything we have done in relation to publicising Madeleines disappearance over the last 3 months.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 12:02:54 AM
I am not going to go back to the McCannfiles web site and copy out Gerry's blog for the 8th of August 2007
... I have never posted anything misleading or unsupported on this forum, and I feel no requirement to prove my honesty to you
If you question my integrity as a poster, go and look at Gerry's blog yourself, and compare it with Kate's recollection of the same event ... then, if you feel I have been unfair, by all means, you bring the evidence to point out my error
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
not interested in your honesty - a rather shaky concept in the virtual world
just interested in source material that you claim is existing
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 12:08:35 AM
not interested in your honesty - a rather shaky concept in the virtual world
just interested in source material that you claim is existing
Anne has, very kindly, quoted it above ( the comparitive quotes from Kate's book are in my previous posts )
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 26, 2013, 12:11:33 AM
There is a huge amount of speculation in the media that Madeleine is dead, particularly with the obvious change in strategy of the investigation recently. At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this belief that has driven everything we have done in relation to publicising Madeleines disappearance over the last 3 months.
No actual contradiction there at all.
Gerry has simply omitted a lot of detail Kate included, which could all be incorporated into Gerry's account seamlessly ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:14:29 AM
not interested in your honesty - a rather shaky concept in the virtual world
just interested in source material that you claim is existing
Anne has, very kindly, quoted it above ( the comparitive quotes from Kate's book are in my previous posts )
It's a bit like an Easter egg hunt with you icabodcrane
You make sweeping generalisations - and dress them up as FACT
and when challenged - ask the challengers to find out the source material for themselves
PFFFFFFFFFF
are you not a bit arrogant and patronising
or are you simply untidy in your logic?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 12:18:24 AM
Here is the complete report of Kate McCann ("Madeleine") of the"regular informal meeting". We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said.Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. Secret of Justice was running, that's true.. Why is there nothing in the files ?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:20:45 AM
wow - so none of that was in the files
cool - because then I don't have to read it
it's immaterial
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 12:21:51 AM
Gerry's blog entry 8th August 2007.
Kates parents left early this morning. We did a short interview on how our faith has helped us during the last 3 months since Madeleines abduction. Given the events of the last few days we need to draw even greater strength from our faith and everyone who has supported us.
With the huge amount of media attention on us again it is very difficult to do anything with the kids without them being filmed and it is unfair on them. There is a huge amount of speculation in the media that Madeleine is dead, particularly with the obvious change in strategy of the investigation recently. At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this belief that has driven everything we have done in relation to publicising Madeleines disappearance over the last 3 months.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id14.html
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:22:28 AM
we should have a Mills and Boon thread on here
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 12:24:44 AM
Gerry's blog entry 10th August 2007.
Today Kate and I did a series of TV interviews for Portuguese and foreign TV. It has always been very important to us that we speak to the Portuguese people directly since we are in their country and have received such tremendous support, particularly from the local community. We again talked about the YouTube channel Don’t You Forget Me which was launched yesterday. Naturally we were also asked about the events of this week, which has been incredibly difficult for us with wild speculation in the media. We have always been told that the police had an open mind about Madeleines abduction and that all scenarios were possible.
In the first few days after Madeleines disappearance it was so difficult for us not to imagine the worst case scenario: that she had been taken and murdered, particularly in light of the statistics on child abduction. However as the massive investigation and extensive search did not find any evidence of serious harm to Madeleine, we started to hope that she would be found alive. This belief has been encouraged by the police and reinforced by the experts at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children on my recent visit to Washington. There have been a number of children recovered, even after years of abduction, and whom the authorities had thought must be dead.
Everything we have done in the last 99 days in the campaign to help find Madeleine has been driven by fact that all our family and friends feel that there is a reasonable chance Madeleine is still alive. Kate and I, like all parents of missing children will always have that hope unless we see concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this hope that has sustained us along with the overwhelming support we have received from family, friends and well-wishers. As parents, we have always said we need to know what has happened to our daughter who has been such a massive part of our life. If the current police activity does uncover new evidence that Madeleine has been seriously harmed we should be the first to know.
We have always felt that the best chance of finding Madeleine is through the police investigation. We have done our best to get relevant information in to the enquiry, particularly from tourists who were in the Algarve around the time of her abduction. The fact that Madeleine could have been moved out of Portugal easily in the first few hours has been the reason the campaign has had to have an international dimension. One in six missing children in North America are found as a direct result of high awareness through distribution of posters and media exposure.
Tonight we attended the weekly vigil to pray for Madeleine and other missing children. These services have a calm serenity, which allow us to contemplate quietly. There was also a vigil in Rothley attended by family and friends. Tomorrow we will be marking the 100 day very quietly with a prayer service in Praia da Luz. Other family will be at the world pipe band chamionships in Glasgow and on the streets in Liverpool. A number of sporting events will also be marking the day.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 26, 2013, 12:27:55 AM
Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm.
That's the key part from Kate's account that accords with Gerry's blog.
The rest could be shoe-horned into Gerry's blog without contradiction.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 12:30:24 AM
She didn't answer because she was afraid that if she told the truth she would implicate herself and if lying she could be judged for perjury.
But what answer could implicate this mother of a disappeared child? That's what we cannot understand if she is totally innocent of any wrongdoing.
Admin note: She wasn't under oath so she couldn't have been prosecuted for perjury.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 12:31:31 AM
Thankyou Anne and John
I wasn't being lazy, I just don't know how to 'copy and paste' and when I bring anything from another site I have to copy it in long-hand and then re-type it here
... which is a bit wearysome at this time of night
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 12:35:31 AM
I wasn't being lazy, I just don't know how to 'copy and paste' and when I bring anything from another site I have to copy it in long-hand and then re-type it here
... which is a bit wearysome at this time of night
I just don't know how to 'copy and paste'
Oh dear, Jesus wept
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 12:43:07 AM
I wasn't being lazy, I just don't know how to 'copy and paste' and when I bring anything from another site I have to copy it in long-hand and then re-type it here
... which is a bit wearysome at this time of night
I just don't know how to 'copy and paste'
Oh dear, Jesus wept
Why so nasty registrar ?
I am not computer literate ... I do not spend my life clicking away at a key board, and that is the truth
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Benice on April 26, 2013, 12:47:15 AM
Here is the complete report of Kate McCann ("Madeleine") of the"regular informal meeting". We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said.Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. Secret of Justice was running, that's true.. Why is there nothing in the files ?
The McCanns had no power over what was in the files. The meeting was informal - so I presume no record was made of it. Have any of the named persons above complained that Kate's description was not true? Just curious
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:48:04 AM
not your life - just the last two months
as for nasty
I reserve that for the real baddies
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 12:51:51 AM
Here is the complete report of Kate McCann ("Madeleine") of the"regular informal meeting". We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said.Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. Secret of Justice was running, that's true.. Why is there nothing in the files ?
The McCanns had no power over what was in the files. The meeting was informal - so I presume no record was made of it. Have any of the named persons above complained that Kate's description was not true? Just curious
I believe Kate's claim that the police offered her a 'deal' was rebutted at some point ( by her lawyer ? ) ... it was explained as a misunderstanding if I recall correctly
I have no evidence for that recollection
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: registrar on April 26, 2013, 12:52:25 AM
Who has sued the McCanns for slander or libel??
We know who sued and won against:
various British newspapers
Amaral
Bennett
who went legal against the McCanns????
If not, why not???
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 12:52:36 AM
Should the McCanns lose their libel trial against Amaral ( or withdraw ) I would think there is every possibility he will counter sue for damages caused
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 26, 2013, 01:00:38 AM
Here is the complete report of Kate McCann ("Madeleine") of the"regular informal meeting". We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said.Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. Secret of Justice was running, that's true.. Why is there nothing in the files ?
The McCanns had no power over what was in the files. The meeting was informal - so I presume no record was made of it. Have any of the named persons above complained that Kate's description was not true? Just curious
All manner of stuff doesn't appear in the files.
We don't see Stuart Prior's report.
And while some will say that was in compliance with Leicestershire police's wishes, that won't do.
We don't see Lee Rainbow's report, either, and he worked for the same organisation as Harrison.
But we do see the reports of the liaison officers, who worked for Leicestershire police.
Work that out ...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 01:03:21 AM
The McCanns had no power over what was in the files. The meeting was informal - so I presume no record was made of it. Have any of the named persons above complained that Kate's description was not true? Just curious
An informal meeting became a tough interview. The PJ could very well have taken statements. Why didn't they ? Was it in order to avoid "self incrimination" ? If we believe Kate McCann, then what happened on the 7th shouldn't have been a surprise for her.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
I believe Kate's claim that the police offered her a 'deal' was rebutted at some point ( by her lawyer ? ) ... it was explained as a misunderstanding if I recall correctly
I have no evidence for that recollection
This was in September, a misunderstanding explained the lawyer. Some confusion between Common Law (which allows plea bargain) and inquisitorial system (which doesn't).
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: ferryman on April 26, 2013, 01:13:50 AM
This may or may not be of interest on plea bargains:
Should the McCanns lose their libel trial against Amaral ( or withdraw ) I would think there is every possibility he will counter sue for damages caused
Dream on
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: debunker on April 26, 2013, 05:46:09 AM
The suggestion that Kate McCann was being 'framed' by the police is quite a ridiculous one, to me
This case was being watched on rolling 24 hour news ... senior politicians, including Prime Ministers were involved ... diplomats and seconded government officials were on hand ... celebrities and millionaire backers were watching with interest ... the world's press were primed and ready to go at a moment's notice
This case ... of all cases ... was at minimum risk of police wrong-doing
There is a difference between conscious framing and that of having a police mindset that allows an investigation to continue beyond the available evidence becasue it has assumed guilt. That is why they have cases screened by the Prosecutor in Portugal and by the CPS in the UK. In the bad old days the police used to prosecute in the UK and there were considerably more trials that failed to get a conviction because of such police mindsets.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 09:34:22 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Carana on April 26, 2013, 09:43:38 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Not all the Portuguese police - Rebelo's team tried to pick up the pieces as best they could. The DCCB seems competent. Major Sequiera's report is very touching in its description of the search for her.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 10:14:48 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Old story too, John, if I may : the world in black and white : innocent victims and mean cops. Don't you think it isn't fair to suggest anything without having the cops' version of the meeting ? Losing Madeleine was certainly atrocious, but is it legitimate to complain about the "pressing" and "pushing" of inspectors who were just doing their job ? And their job had been for more than 3 months to search for a missing little girl who could only have been abducted. No evidence whatsoever but the cops had to either believe the McCanns or leave them in peace. If the meeting is not in the files, it could be to protect the MC who hadn't the benefit of the arguido statute at the time and were asked questions the answers of which could be incriminating. Let me just remind you who were the protagonists : not Iberic cops you globally picture as "inquisitors" and "incompetents", but persons, with a name and a function. Luís Neves and (late) Guilhermino Encarnação, the first being Director of the National Unit against Terrorism na PJ, and the second, Head of the PJ for the Algarve.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 10:22:43 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Not all the Portuguese police - Rebelo's team tried to pick up the pieces as best they could. The DCCB seems competent. Major Sequiera's report is very touching in its description of the search for her.
Hi Carana and thanks for mentioning Major Sequeira's report which fits well with the mental representation of parenthood as illustrated in Portuguese literature.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 10:35:07 AM
The number of child abductions and abuse cases in Portugal is a national scandal. Madeleine McCann is but one of those statistics.
The Portuguese police are a remnant from a fascist past, a brutal force of elitists who only exist to protect the powerful. They are the very worst you could ever want to encounter in terms of law and justice. Amaral's actions are testament to this arrogance, I am not in the least surprised that his buddies turned on him too!
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Carana on April 26, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Old story too, John, if I may : the world in black and white : innocent victims and mean cops. Don't you think it isn't fair to suggest anything without having the cops' version of the meeting ? Losing Madeleine was certainly atrocious, but is it legitimate to complain about the "pressing" and "pushing" of inspectors who were just doing their job ? And their job had been for more than 3 months to search for a missing little girl who could only have been abducted. No evidence whatsoever but the cops had to either believe the McCanns or leave them in peace. If the meeting is not in the files, it could be to protect the MC who hadn't the benefit of the arguido statute at the time and were asked questions the answers of which could be incriminating. Let me just remind you who were the protagonists : not Iberic cops you globally picture as "inquisitors" and "incompetents", but persons, with a name and a function. Luís Neves and (late) Guilhermino Encarnação, the first being Director of the National Unit against Terrorism na PJ, and the second, Head of the PJ for the Algarve.
It could equally be to protect the PJ, who were asking potentially incriminating questions...
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 11:24:04 AM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Old story too, John, if I may : the world in black and white : innocent victims and mean cops. Don't you think it isn't fair to suggest anything without having the cops' version of the meeting ? Losing Madeleine was certainly atrocious, but is it legitimate to complain about the "pressing" and "pushing" of inspectors who were just doing their job ? And their job had been for more than 3 months to search for a missing little girl who could only have been abducted. No evidence whatsoever but the cops had to either believe the McCanns or leave them in peace. If the meeting is not in the files, it could be to protect the MC who hadn't the benefit of the arguido statute at the time and were asked questions the answers of which could be incriminating. Let me just remind you who were the protagonists : not Iberic cops you globally picture as "inquisitors" and "incompetents", but persons, with a name and a function. Luís Neves and (late) Guilhermino Encarnação, the first being Director of the National Unit against Terrorism na PJ, and the second, Head of the PJ for the Algarve.
It could equally be to protect the PJ, who were asking potentially incriminating questions...
Yes, Carana, both ways are possible and even not alternatively.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
The number of child abductions and abuse cases in Portugal is a national scandal. Madeleine McCann is but one of those statistics.
The Portuguese police are a remnant from a fascist past, a brutal force of elitists who only exist to protect the powerful. They are the very worst you could ever want to encounter in terms of law and justice. Amaral's actions are testament to this arrogance, I am not in the least surprised that his buddies turned on him too!
Please give us numbers to back up such violent accusations.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 01:33:29 PM
The subject of child abductions in Portugal should have its own thread as it is indeed a disgrace for such a supposedly christian country but let's see, in answer to your question Anne.
Five years after Madeleine's abduction 30 other children had gone missing in Portugal official figures revealed so haeven knows how many it is now.
The grim toll contradicts Portuguese claims that her case was unique and abduction was rare.
The subject of child abductions in Portugal should have its own thread as it is indeed a disgrace for such a supposedly christian country but let's see, in answer to your question Anne.
Five years after Madeleine's abduction 30 other children had gone missing in Portugal official figures revealed so haeven knows how many it is now.
The grim toll contradicts Portuguese claims that her case was unique and abduction was rare.
The subject of child abductions in Portugal should have its own thread as it is indeed a disgrace for such a supposedly christian country but let's see, in answer to your question Anne.
Five years after Madeleine's abduction 30 other children had gone missing in Portugal official figures revealed so haeven knows how many it is now.
The grim toll contradicts Portuguese claims that her case was unique and abduction was rare.
As you know, when children are missing, it doesn't mean they were abducted. Most of the time, they were taken by one parent in complex cases of divorce. Please send your numbers. I would appreciate also, since you stigmatise Portugal, your sending numbers for the UK. BTW I don't see what Christianity has to do with this issue. I'm an atheist but I never abducted no one !
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 01:54:34 PM
The subject of child abductions in Portugal should have its own thread as it is indeed a disgrace for such a supposedly christian country but let's see, in answer to your question Anne.
Five years after Madeleine's abduction 30 other children had gone missing in Portugal official figures revealed so haeven knows how many it is now.
The grim toll contradicts Portuguese claims that her case was unique and abduction was rare.
John, I'm a bit amazed you're sending a link to a tabloid that doesn't cite its source. Here is the list of missing people on the official PJ site. Some are foreigners, like Madeleine MC, right in the first page. https://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/PortalWeb/page/%7BAA001182-B622-459A-BF72-FD6EDD83C76F%7D/?portletLabel=T2608720801203616720906&actionSubmitted=navegacaoPessoasDesaparecidas&portletParameter=pessoasDesaparecidas&portletNav=1
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 02:14:25 PM
I found the Portuguese Publico article that the Sun found lucrative to interpret its way. http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/trinta-desaparecimentos-de-criancas-em-investigacao-desde-o-caso-maddie-1544265 It says : 1) More than 99% of the missing children and teens cases investigated by the PJ in the last 5 years (we're in 2012) were resolved. 2) Since Madeleine MC disappeared, 30 children and teens disappeared who weren't found. 3 of them (children up to 12 yrs old) are all parents' neglect cases. The 27 others are teens between 13 and 17 yrs old, who all disappeared in 2011/2012 (no case between 2007 and 2011). 3) During these 5 years, the PJ was alerted 3629 times (345 times for children under 12 and 3284 times for teens 13-17). If the alarm device was never used, it is, logically, because no abduction occurred.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: icabodcrane on April 26, 2013, 02:35:35 PM
I found the Portuguese Publico article that the Sun found lucrative to interpret its way. http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/trinta-desaparecimentos-de-criancas-em-investigacao-desde-o-caso-maddie-1544265 It says : 1) More than 99% of the missing children and teens cases investigated by the PJ in the last 5 years (we're in 2012) were resolved. 2) Since Madeleine MC disappeared, 30 children and teens disappeared who weren't found. 3 of them (children up to 12 yrs old) are all parents' neglect cases. The 27 others are teens between 13 and 17 yrs old, who all disappeared in 2011/2012 (no case between 2007 and 2011). 3) During these 5 years, the PJ was alerted 3629 times (345 times for children under 12 and 3284 times for teens 13-17). If the alarm device was never used, it is, logically, because no abduction occurred.
How many under 18 year olds have disappeared in Britain since May 2007 I wonder
Does anyone have the figures, just out of curiousity
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 02:56:57 PM
I found the Portuguese Publico article that the Sun found lucrative to interpret its way. http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/trinta-desaparecimentos-de-criancas-em-investigacao-desde-o-caso-maddie-1544265 It says : 1) More than 99% of the missing children and teens cases investigated by the PJ in the last 5 years (we're in 2012) were resolved. 2) Since Madeleine MC disappeared, 30 children and teens disappeared who weren't found. 3 of them (children up to 12 yrs old) are all parents' neglect cases. The 27 others are teens between 13 and 17 yrs old, who all disappeared in 2011/2012 (no case between 2007 and 2011). 3) During these 5 years, the PJ was alerted 3629 times (345 times for children under 12 and 3284 times for teens 13-17). If the alarm device was never used, it is, logically, because no abduction occurred.
Thank you for providing that link Anne. Interpolating between the two references which you kindly provided, do we know if the Portuguese Police missing person data is up to date or are there any of the 27 missing teenagers who are still unaccounted for but fail to appear on it for some reason?
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 03:05:31 PM
I found the Portuguese Publico article that the Sun found lucrative to interpret its way. http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/trinta-desaparecimentos-de-criancas-em-investigacao-desde-o-caso-maddie-1544265 It says : 1) More than 99% of the missing children and teens cases investigated by the PJ in the last 5 years (we're in 2012) were resolved. 2) Since Madeleine MC disappeared, 30 children and teens disappeared who weren't found. 3 of them (children up to 12 yrs old) are all parents' neglect cases. The 27 others are teens between 13 and 17 yrs old, who all disappeared in 2011/2012 (no case between 2007 and 2011). 3) During these 5 years, the PJ was alerted 3629 times (345 times for children under 12 and 3284 times for teens 13-17). If the alarm device was never used, it is, logically, because no abduction occurred.
Thank you for providing that link Anne. Interpolating between the two references which you kindly provided, do we know if the Portuguese Police missing person data is up to date or are there any of the 27 missing teenagers who are still unaccounted for but fail to appear on it for some reason?
It would take time to find out, John ! For example open all the pages of the PJ site and count after reading the extra information in each case... All I know is that many of the 27 teenagers were missing from institutions.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Rachel Granada on April 26, 2013, 04:54:09 PM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Sensible post, John. Seems like you unfortunately have first-hand experience of these people. I have no doubt that had Kate and Gerry McCann been uneducated Portuguese people then the outcome would have been very different. Perhaps Kate McCann would also have "fallen down the stairs" at the cop-shop.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 04:57:13 PM
The Portuguese police failed the McCann's utterly and completely. Their actions at that informal meeting detailed above is evidence if any is in fact needed that this was the case. Same old story, fail to find the criminal perpetrators so blame the victim in order to cover their own backsides!
They are a disgrace to have put Kate and Gerry through such an ordeal. Little wonder the McCann's decided to return home and effectively stop cooperating with such a bunch of keystone cops. I have seen these Iberian incompetents at their very worst and I can empathise with the McCann's. Had they not been non Portuguese nationals and had the investigation not been under world Press scrutiny I have no doubt that they would have been mentally and physically abused by their inquisitors.
Sensible post, John. Seems like you unfortunately have first-hand experience of these people. I have no doubt that had Kate and Gerry McCann been uneducated Portuguese people then the outcome would have been very different. Perhaps Kate McCann would also have "fallen down the stairs" at the cop-shop.
Do you agree with this, John ? Just curious.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: John on April 26, 2013, 05:09:31 PM
I have personally witnessed the quite unnecessary brutality exhibited by some police officers in Portugal and Spain and having done so it sees to me that it is a cultural thing, a remnant of past regimes. They think nothing of drawing their baton or stick when encountering a situation of their disliking. You have to remember too that GNR officers are routinely armed with handguns.
Sensible post, John. Seems like you unfortunately have first-hand experience of these people. I have no doubt that had Kate and Gerry McCann been uneducated Portuguese people then the outcome would have been very different. Perhaps Kate McCann would also have "fallen down the stairs" at the cop-shop.
Do you agree with this, John ? Just curious.
It is an unfortunate fact Anne that the PJ believe violence to be part of their remit. This phenomenon isn't by any means unique to the Iberian Peninsula though as I am sure you will point out.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: AnneGuedes on April 26, 2013, 06:54:05 PM
Sensible post, John. Seems like you unfortunately have first-hand experience of these people. I have no doubt that had Kate and Gerry McCann been uneducated Portuguese people then the outcome would have been very different. Perhaps Kate McCann would also have "fallen down the stairs" at the cop-shop.
Do you agree with this, John ? Just curious.
It is an unfortunate fact Anne that the PJ believe violence to be part of their remit. This phenomenon isn't by any means unique to the Iberian Peninsula though as I am sure you will point out.
I can't but contest, John, it's not my experience. There was no civil war in Portugal and the years spent under the domination of Spain were a nightmare (King Sebastian legend). The GNR, like the gendarmerie nationale, are part of the army, that's why they're armed. Like everywhere there are nice and not so nice persons in all the so different regions of the Iberian Peninsula. I see no motive to generalize. Culturally it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 16, 2017, 07:02:26 PM
Amaral has stated in his book that the entire pj believed that Maddie died in the appt and the McCanns covered it up..... thats defamation
The PJ inspectors could believe what they wanted, but they certainly didn't say "we believe Madeleine died in the flat et we'll question you in order to incriminate you" ! This is pure speculation, eventually defamation.
Have you read the questions? what is your medical speciality? have you ever done shift work?
how are those questions going to help catch an abductor? talking of defamation, Amaral has been described as a bent, disgraced cop in the uk. The uk is the easiest country in europe to sue for defamation. why hasn't he sued? perhaps he has no defence.
No when it comes to libel.................................
Title: Re: Why didn't Kate McCann answer the questions of the PJ?
Post by: Mr Gray on July 16, 2017, 07:04:22 PM