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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: icabodcrane on April 17, 2014, 04:09:09 PM
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To those who are sceptical of the the McCanns' version of events, what raises those doubts ?
What available information or evidence leads you to question the version put forward by Kate and Gerry McCann ?
For me, one such doubt is raised by the witness statement of the upstairs neighbour, Mrs Fenn, who says she heard a child crying in the McCanns' apartment for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday night
That raises a doubt about the McCanns claim that they had been checking on their children every half hour
Now, I don't intend for this thread to descend into the usual back and forth of Mrs Fenn's reliability as a witness ... I am just saying that her testimony raises a doubt about the McCanns' version of events ... which it undeniably does
What else raises doubts ?
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The inconsistencies in the stories and the obstinate refusal to participate in a reconstruction does it for me Ica. I cannot believe they collectively could have done that to that little tot and put their own wellbeing and careers first. All this bull about searching which they have never personally taken part in. Why is that??
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To those who are sceptical of the the McCanns' version of events, what raises those doubts ?
What available information or evidence leads you to question the version put forward by Kate and Gerry McCann ?
For me, one such doubt is raised by the witness statement of the upstairs neighbour, Mrs Fenn, who says she heard a child crying in the McCanns' apartment for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday night
That raises a doubt about the McCanns claim that they had been checking on their children every half hour
Now, I don't intend for this thread to descend into the usual back and forth of Mrs Fenn's reliability as a witness ... I am just saying that her testimony raises a doubt about the McCanns' version of events ... which it undeniably does
What else raises doubts ?
There is at least one Fenn thread on here, so no need to repeat everything.
However, I do have questions as you raise the issue:
- Why did it take the PJ so long to question an elderly person who had been the victim of an attempted burglary in the flat above the week before
- Was Mrs Fenn's statement cross-checked, either by other statements, phone call records, or by a forensic sound check to verify what she may have heard?
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My ongoing list...
Dog Alerts
Wiped Cell Phone records
Inconsistent Statements
Deep Sleeping Twins
Refusing to Answer Questions
Leaving PDL quickly after saying would never leave
Excessive use of Litigation
Body Language
Unrestricted Fund
Smith Sighting
Crying in the Night
Leaving Twins for extended periods (plus to raise alarm)
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There is at least one Fenn thread on here, so no need to repeat everything.
However, I do have questions as you raise the issue:
- Why did it take the PJ so long to question an elderly person who had been the victim of an attempted burglary in the flat above the week before
- Was Mrs Fenn's statement cross-checked, either by other statements, phone call records, or by a forensic sound check to verify what she may have heard?
I don't intend going over the minutiae of Mrs Fenn's statement ... that is not the point of this thread
Whether Mrs Fenn was correct or not in her recollection is not relevant to the question of DOUBT
The fact that she said she heard a child crying for an hour and a quarter is enough to raise a doubt about the McCanns version of their checking regime
That 'doubt' exists because of Mrs Fenn's statement ... I mean, she might have been absolutely accurate in her recall, mightn't she ?
Neither you, nor I know whether she was or not ... so there is an element of doubt in both our minds, isn't there ?
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The inconsistencies in the stories and the obstinate refusal to participate in a reconstruction does it for me Ica. I cannot believe they collectively could have done that to that little tot and put their own wellbeing and careers first. All this bull about searching which they have never personally taken part in. Why is that??
Where exactly is the source of your information that the Drs McCann refused to participate in a reconstruction?
A summary of key points from 'The Truth of the Lie', 27 July 2008
44 - It was thought to do the reconstruction in May but that wasn't possible.
The number of tourists, the number of journalists and the fact that the air space had to be closed (because of helicopters from the media) and the fact that it would make the public suspect the McCanns were being treated as suspects prevented it.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
Apensos IX Vol I
Page 139
Public Ministry of Portimao
Case Section
Case 201/07 GALGS
Dear Sir
Public prosecutor
Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.
Rogério Alves
Lawyer
(Sent by email)
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Where exactly is the source of your information that the Drs McCann refused to participate in a reconstruction?
A summary of key points from 'The Truth of the Lie', 27 July 2008
44 - It was thought to do the reconstruction in May but that wasn't possible.
The number of tourists, the number of journalists and the fact that the air space had to be closed (because of helicopters from the media) and the fact that it would make the public suspect the McCanns were being treated as suspects prevented it.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
Apensos IX Vol I
Page 139
Public Ministry of Portimao
Case Section
Case 201/07 GALGS
Dear Sir
Public prosecutor
Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.
Rogério Alves
Lawyer
(Sent by email)
They really didn't need to - they knew their friends would decline 8(0(*
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I don't intend going over the minutiae of Mrs Fenn's statement ... that is not the point of this thread
Whether Mrs Fenn was correct or not in her recollection is not relevant to the question of DOUBT
The fact that she said she heard a child crying for an hour and a quarter is enough to raise a doubt about the McCanns version of their checking regime
That 'doubt' exists because of Mrs Fenn's statement ... I mean, she might have been absolutely accurate in her recall, mightn't she ?
Neither you, nor I know whether she was or not ... so there is an element of doubt in both our minds, isn't there ?
Yes, I understand the "doubt" element. But what did the PJ actually do to eliminate or confirm that doubt?
ETA: In your opinion, is it normal to only question an elderly victim of an attempted burglary in the apartment just above several months after the disappearance?
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They really didn't need to - they knew their friends would decline 8(0(*
Then it is wrong to claim that the Drs McCann refused to participate in a reconstruction, and saying so on a forum which deals only in factual claims which can be corroborated independently is also wrong.
If the reconstruction had taken place in May 2007 as a means of helping to find Madeleine I doubt if there would have been any dissent.
A year later, when the PJ had stated Madeleine was dead and her parents suspected of having a hand in that death, the situation had changed.
[Processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P106 ]
Vol XVI p. 4237
xx xxxxxx xxxx
Exeter
Devon
xxx xxx
23rd April 2008
Re: Re-enactment of Events of 3/5/2008
Dear Stuart, Many thanks for your email, and for forwarding the reply from Senhor Rebelo. Also, thanks to you and your colleagues for arranging the re-interviews.
It is somewhat reassuring to see in writing from the PJ that there are "no suspicions over [us] regarding the commission of any criminal acts." However, we heard something similar in the weeks before Kate and Gerry were made arguidos! Additionally, the thrust of the PJ's closed questions during the re-interviews seemed only to focus on Kate and Gerry's culpability, suspicion about our written timeline or who involved the media.
After a year of lies, accusations and intrusion, I am sure that the Mr Rebelo can appreciate our complete revulsion at what Kate and Gerry have been forced to endure. Furthermore, we cannot help but feel that the re-interviews and re-enactment are all too little and far too late.
However, the last thing we would ever want is a standoff between us and the PJ, something that would only delight and benefit the press. Kate and Gerry desperately need the cloud of suspicion over them to be emphatically lifted, and the PJ need to complete their investigation. We also appreciate the legal obstacles to removing Kate and Gerry's arguido status, but would request that prior to us agreeing to the re-enactment the PJ:
• publicly dispels the damaging and disturbing lies churned out by the Portuguese press regarding alleged changes to statements, re-interviews or alleged lack of co-operation.
• publicly states there are "no suspicions over [us] regarding the commission of any criminal acts." This in no way compromises judicial secrecy. But without some official intervention on their part, a return for the re-enactment seems little more than a perfect opportunity for the press to speculate and libel us all once again.
We are very keen to help an investigation aiming to establish what's happened to Madeleine, but have no desire to assist one that seeks only to d**n our innocent friends. By actively restoring the focus on Madeleine and robustly dispelling the countless speculation, the PJ can expect our continued co- operation.
Yours sincerely,
Russell O'Brien & Jane Tanner
PS: We certainly do not request any specific reimbursement for travel or accommodation.
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Were any of the burgled apartments forensically tested or not? If not, what could link or invalidate any of those to the disappearance?
The forensic search of 5A was an emergency deployment, but was not a thorough forensic investigation. Hairs on her bed were not received by the PT forensic lab. There are still other unidentified hairs, depite having profiles of those known to have been in the apartment. Who did those hairs belong to?
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I don't think there are any significant reasons to doubt the McCanns ...and as we know SY must agree as they are at present not regarded as suspects
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Kate McCann, Madeleine.
"Friday 4 May. Our first day without Madeleine. As soon as it was light Gerry and I resumed our search. We went up and down roads we’d never seen before, having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and raked through undergrowth. We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed, was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents."
(End Quote)
Less than 12 hours after Madeleine was apparently seen being carried away by Bundleman, Kate believed her daughter could be found inside a big dumpster type bin,
Infact she considers it so likely that she pleaded with God for her not to be in there.
She doesn't mention searching any more bins. Once she found that one empty, she didn't need to look in any more.
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Kate McCann, Madeleine.
"Friday 4 May. Our first day without Madeleine. As soon as it was light Gerry and I resumed our search. We went up and down roads we’d never seen before, having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and raked through undergrowth. We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed, was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents."
(End Quote)
Less than 12 hours after Madeleine was apparently seen being carried away by Bundleman, Kate believed her daughter could be found inside a big dumpster type bin,
Infact she considers it so likely that she pleaded with God for her not to be in there.
She doesn't mention searching any more bins. Once she found that one empty, she didn't need to look in any more.
Perhaps that was THE one and had been emptied.
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Do you find it unreasonable that relatives who'd flown over to help could have been trusted to help take care of the twins and maintained a normal routine for them during the initial traumatic meltdown? Would it have helped the search for Madeleine if the parents had just kept the twins inside an apartment and just remained clutching the twins without actually trying to do anything else?
Should the 2-year-old twins have been dragged to the Fatima shrine, the Vatican or anywhere else they went?
No I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find that in itself odd. Who could operate on the basis of reason in a time like that?
I do find going to shrines and the Vatican extremely bizarre. They left their other children in a place they believed that an abductor was on the loose and flew off for a couple of days? Nah. No way. That's almost as bad as leaving the children out of eye sight and ear shot while dining every evening.
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Fabricated timelines
Fabricated statements
Ignoring the Smith sighting
Fabricated rogs
Dismissing the dog alerts
Attempting to rubbish the dogs
Clarence Mitchell
Refusing to do a reconstruction (yes they did)
Deleting phone records
Refusing to answer questions
Running away
This forum
Body language
Crimewatch
Scotland yard
Attempting to silence Amaral
Pretend P.I.
Fabricated sightings
Mrs Fenn
Dianne Webster
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No I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find that in itself odd. Who could operate on the basis of reason in a time like that?
I do find going to shrines and the Vatican extremely bizarre. They left their other children in a place they believed that an abductor was on the loose and flew off for a couple of days? Nah. No way. That's almost as bad as leaving the children out of eye sight and ear shot while dining every evening.
Close family members and friends flew in to try to help... part of that was helping the twins to maintain a normal schedule (in terms of what they were used to on holiday). They were too young to understand what had really happened, but were probably old enough to be distressed by their parents' distress if they'd been around on a 24/7 basis.
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Fabricated timelines
Fabricated statements
Ignoring the Smith sighting
Fabricated rogs
Dismissing the dog alerts
Attempting to rubbish the dogs
Clarence Mitchell
Refusing to do a reconstruction (yes they did)
Deleting phone records
Refusing to answer questions
Running away
This forum
Body language
Crimewatch
Scotland yard
Attempting to silence Amaral
Pretend P.I.
Fabricated sightings
Mrs Fenn
Dianne Webster
Could you develop each of those points in an objective way, with links to relatively reliable sources?
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Could you develop each of those points in an objective way, with links to relatively reliable sources?
This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.
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No I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find that in itself odd. Who could operate on the basis of reason in a time like that?
I do find going to shrines and the Vatican extremely bizarre. They left their other children in a place they believed that an abductor was on the loose and flew off for a couple of days? Nah. No way. That's almost as bad as leaving the children out of eye sight and ear shot while dining every evening.
why do you find going to shrines and the Vatican bizarre
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This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.
Stating as fact (for example) that the McCanns refused to do a reconstruction should be substantiated, surely? Or is it OK to put up a list containing half-truths, myths and falsehoods when explaining why one has doubts for something?
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why do you find going to shrines and the Vatican bizarre
I've always thought everything to do with the Catholic church rather peculiar.
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I've always thought everything to do with the Catholic church rather peculiar.
That doesn't mean it is peculiar...do you apply the same judgement to all religions
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Sorry, I thought I was replying on a different thread. Some comments would be better placed on here
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3898.15
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Kate McCann, Madeleine.
"Friday 4 May. Our first day without Madeleine. As soon as it was light Gerry and I resumed our search. We went up and down roads we’d never seen before, having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and raked through undergrowth. We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed, was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents."
(End Quote)
Less than 12 hours after Madeleine was apparently seen being carried away by Bundleman, Kate believed her daughter could be found inside a big dumpster type bin,
Infact she considers it so likely that she pleaded with God for her not to be in there.
She doesn't mention searching any more bins. Once she found that one empty, she didn't need to look in any more.
It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.
Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers
This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf
I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.
Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child?
I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.
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It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.
Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers
This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf
I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.
Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child?
I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.
I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one,
Really doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
often as shelter or as a joke
You reckon Kate was thinking 'Maybe Maddie has taken shelter in that bin or just popped in there for a laugh'
No, she was looking for a dead kid..
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Stating as fact (for example) that the McCanns refused to do a reconstruction should be substantiated, surely? Or is it OK to put up a list containing half-truths, myths and falsehoods when explaining why one has doubts for something?
It is the combined weight of the list items that causes the doubt, even if some of the items only have a small probability of being dodgy they add to the overall level of doubt. Remember, it only takes hard evidence in support of one of the items to change the whole complexion of the case.
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This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.
Wouldn't it be helpful to provide reasoned arguments with sources to substantiate those doubts?
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It is the combined weight of the list items that causes the doubt, even if some of the items only have a small probability of being dodgy they add to the overall level of doubt. Remember, it only takes hard evidence in support of one of the items to change the whole complexion of the case.
Why do you think the combined might of various police forces have been unable to substantiate any of these niggling doubts of yours in the last seven years? BTW, I notice that one of the reasons for doubting is Scotland Yard themselves!!
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It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.
Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers
This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf
I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.
Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child?
I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.
They have been criticised for not having searched at all, but they have also been criticised for searching in a bin. Both cannot true.
What I find more important is to find out when all of the bins in the area were checked by the police within what timeframe and with how many trained officers to check for potentially small pieces of forensic evidence.
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I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one,
Really doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
often as shelter or as a joke
You reckon Kate was thinking 'Maybe Maddie has taken shelter in that bin or just popped in there for a laugh'
No, she was looking for a dead kid..
I firmly believe that Dr McCann was searching for a living child, while dreading what she might find.
Madeleine could have been put into the dumpster by her abductor, for a variety of reasons.
Unfortunately, because a comprehensive search was not carried out that is something we will never know, and cannot be used as criticism against the Drs McCanns.
Neither can the failure to secure properly gathered forensics from the crime scene, or failure to collect all the available CCTV evidence be laid at their door.
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I firmly believe that Dr McCann was searching for a living child, while dreading what she might find.
Madeleine could have been put into the dumpster by her abductor, for a variety of reasons.
Unfortunately, because a comprehensive search was not carried out that is something we will never know, and cannot be used as criticism against the Drs McCanns.
Neither can the failure to secure properly gathered forensics from the crime scene, or failure to collect all the available CCTV evidence be laid at their door.
That's why I said it didn't surprise me.
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That doesn't mean it is peculiar...do you apply the same judgement to all religions
Indeed I do do, though I consider the Catholic faith more peculiar than most.
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why do you find going to shrines and the Vatican bizarre
Unless they had info that they would find Madeleine there (I shall refrain from making an inappropriate catholic priest joke at this point) it was probably the most useless thing they could do, short of going for a jog that is.
They left their other children to b....r off on a weekend in the Vatican!
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Unless they had info that they would find Madeleine there (I shall refrain from making an inappropriate catholic priest joke at this point) it was probably the most useless thing they could do, short of going for a jog that is.
They left their other children to b....r off on a weekend in the Vatican!
people "b....r off" to shrines and places of religious significance often when they are at their most desperate. You may not understand what drives these people, however it's not at all uncommon.
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Why do you think the combined might of various police forces have been unable to substantiate any of these niggling doubts of yours in the last seven years? BTW, I notice that one of the reasons for doubting is Scotland Yard themselves!!
That's PCs list.
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That's PCs list.
my mistake. Does your list of doubts look quite different?
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my mistake. Does your list of doubts look quite different?
How can you dismiss the doubts that others have ?
This case is unsolved and none of us know what happened to Madeleine McCann
Expressing doubts at unexplained ( or inexplicable ) occurences is perfectly natural in such circumstances
What is less natural, in my opinion is the level of certainty expressed by some that the McCanns' version of events is unquestionably correct
I mean how can you, or anyone else, be that certain ?
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How can you dismiss the doubts that others have ?
This case is unsolved and none of us know what happened to Madeleine McCann
Expressing doubts at unexplained ( or inexplicable ) occurences is perfectly natural in such circumstances
What is less natural, in my opinion is the level of certainty expressed by some that the McCanns' version of events is unquestionably correct
I mean how can you, or anyone else, be that certain ?
I can dismiss doubts that are founded on misinformation and lies, I'm sure that's a perfectly acceptable thing to do. As for your other question, let's put it this way: I'm as certain that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger as I am certain that so was Claudia Lawrence, despite the lack of hard evidence. Or should I keep an open mind on that latter case too in your opinion?
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I can dismiss doubts that are founded on misinformation and lies, I'm sure that's a perfectly acceptable thing to do. As for your other question, let's put it this way: I'm as certain that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger as I am certain that so was Claudia Lawrence, despite the lack of hard evidence. Or should I keep an open mind on that latter case too in your opinion?
Why are you drawing a comparison where none exists ?
You cannot be 'certain' of what happened to Madeleine McCann ... none of us can
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Stating as fact (for example) that the McCanns refused to do a reconstruction should be substantiated, surely? Or is it OK to put up a list containing half-truths, myths and falsehoods when explaining why one has doubts for something?
The Portuguese gave them every opportunity to participate but they collectively created so many obstacles that it never happened.
If the McCanns had really wanted to assist the investigation they would have done so and the others would have followed their example. This for me is a significant factor in determining credibility.
In the case of a missing child the actions of the parents in the days, weeks and months afterwards are very significant.
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There may be plenty of reasons that can be used to doubt the mccanns versions but even collectively they are of no significance..imo...there were plenty of reasons to doubt Colin Stagg...who who was arrested, charged,held on remand,tried and found not guilty
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There may be plenty of reasons that can be used to doubt the mccanns versions but even collectively they are of no significance..imo...there were plenty of reasons to doubt Colin Stagg...who who was arrested, charged,held on remand,tried and found not guilty
There are also very good reasons why some might not tell the truth.
Remember the get together at the Rothley Hotel on their return to the UK ?
WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO 'CONFER' ?
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There are also very good reasons why some might not tell the truth.
Remember the get together at the Rothley Hotel on their return to the UK ?
WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO 'CONFER' ?
lots of reasons...nothing sinister...if they wanted to hide anything why have the meeting at a hotel...was it in the restaurant?
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There may be plenty of reasons that can be used to doubt the mccanns versions but even collectively they are of no significance..imo...there were plenty of reasons to doubt Colin Stagg...who who was arrested, charged,held on remand,tried and found not guilty
It is not a question of 'using' reasons to doubt ... that doesn't even make sense
It is about having reasons to doubt
I'll give you an example
When Scotland Yard released the e fits of Smithman, that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns, a 'doubt' was raised in my mind
I had previously believed that they ( the McCanns ) were desperate to get as much information into the public domain as possible ... now I have 'doubts' about that
You see, their actions raised a doubt that I previously did not have
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It is not a question of 'using' reasons to doubt ... that doesn't even make sense
It is about having reasons to doubt
I'll give you an example
When Scotland Yard released the e fits of Smithman, that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns, a 'doubt' was raised in my mind
I had previously believed that they ( the McCanns ) were desperate to get as much information into the public domain as possible ... now I have 'doubts' about that
You see, their actions raised a doubt that I previously did not have
anti McCann coloured glasses..you have doubted the mccanns for years...at least TRY and tell the truth
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I've read the whole post.
But this:
that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns,
Not a shred of evidence to support that, unsubstantiated, allegation ...
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I've read the whole post.
But this:
that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns,
Not a shred of evidence to support that, unsubstantiated, allegation ...
@)(++(* @)(++(*
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I've read the whole post.
But this:
that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns,
Not a shred of evidence to support that, unsubstantiated, allegation ...
Those efits were done in 2008. What aren't they in the leaving no stone unturned book? Interesting the real reason why that book was written. It may be known to all soon.
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8((()*/
Actions speak louder than words. In this particular instance the actions will say to a lot of people, myself included that amongst that report was something to hide.
A challenge to the McCanns. Publish the Report done by Kevin Halligen and prove that there is nothing in the allegations.
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I've read the whole post.
But this:
that had been withheld from the public by the McCanns,
Not a shred of evidence to support that, unsubstantiated, allegation ...
Just the fact that it HAS BEEN WITHHELD.
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To those who are sceptical of the the McCanns' version of events, what raises those doubts ?
What available information or evidence leads you to question the version put forward by Kate and Gerry McCann ?
For me, one such doubt is raised by the witness statement of the upstairs neighbour, Mrs Fenn, who says she heard a child crying in the McCanns' apartment for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday night
That raises a doubt about the McCanns claim that they had been checking on their children every half hour
Now, I don't intend for this thread to descend into the usual back and forth of Mrs Fenn's reliability as a witness ... I am just saying that her testimony raises a doubt about the McCanns' version of events ... which it undeniably does
What else raises doubts ?
What reason is there to believe the versionS of eventS from the people that:
- didn't act according to their "theory" of abduction trying to search for the child immediately and/or call the authorities;
- factually compromised the crime scene;
- suppressed data that could have been relevant for the understanding of the events;
- gave contradictory/different statements (intra & inter-personally);
- never cared to go after any "sighting" but (coincidently in time) to some place totally different;
- lied about the support that was given to the search, faking that they were on their own (when they were the only ones that never searched);
- never seemed to prioritize the recovery of their child over their own "agenda" with travellings, media interviews, book, ...;
- etc, etc...
Why should anyone take for granted the version of anyone without any substantive, solid evidence?
The McCann told a story and expected it to be accepted when their behaviour told the opposite.
-
What reason is there to believe the versionS of eventS from the people that:
- didn't act according to their "theory" of abduction trying to search for the child immediately and/or call the authorities;
- factually compromised the crime scene;
- suppressed data that could have been relevant for the understanding of the events;
- gave contradictory/different statements (intra & inter-personally);
- never cared to go after any "sighting" but (coincidently in time) to some place totally different;
- lied about the support that was given to the search, faking that they were on their own (when they were the only ones that never searched);
- never seemed to prioritize the recovery of their child over their own "agenda" with travellings, media interviews, book, ...;
- etc, etc...
Why should anyone take for granted the version of anyone without any substantive, solid evidence?
The McCann told a story and expected it to be accepted when their behaviour told the opposite.
And yet, amazingly, some believe every word of it.
-
What reason is there to believe the versionS of eventS from the people that:
- didn't act according to their "theory" of abduction trying to search for the child immediately and/or call the authorities;
- factually compromised the crime scene;
- suppressed data that could have been relevant for the understanding of the events;
- gave contradictory/different statements (intra & inter-personally);
- never cared to go after any "sighting" but (coincidently in time) to some place totally different;
- lied about the support that was given to the search, faking that they were on their own (when they were the only ones that never searched);
- never seemed to prioritize the recovery of their child over their own "agenda" with travellings, media interviews, book, ...;
- etc, etc...
Why should anyone take for granted the version of anyone without any substantive, solid evidence?
The McCann told a story and expected it to be accepted when their behaviour told the opposite.
because what you have written is untrue
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because what you have written is untrue
Why should we believe the mccanns and associate version of events when there was clear collusion between them ?
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Why should we believe the mccanns and associate version of events when there was clear collusion between them ?
No one is asking you to believe them...your opinion is of no importance
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No one is asking you to believe them...your opinion is of no importance
You really have to get a new line Dave. ?{)(**