UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: John on February 16, 2017, 01:19:50 AM
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Mass murderer Jeremy Bamber's Campaign Team have the begging bowl out again and are asking for £6000 in an attempt to prove that evidence submitted to the original trial was fabricated and tampered with. Yet again it was someone else's fault!
What is Forensics 360?
Launched by the Jeremy Bamber Campaign, the project is a process of fundraising for forensics between Wednesday 15th March to Friday 31st April 2017. This is pay for a review of (a) all material evidence used at Jeremy's trial and (b) to provide new forensic evidence to ensure the freedom of Jeremy Bamber. We are looking at the case in its entirety, a full 360 degrees, to explore new avenues instead of searching very narrowly for new evidence.
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensics-360/cash.jpg)
How much do we need?
In this first phase of the project we are asking members of the public for their help with funding for forensic work on three pieces of evidence used at the trial. This will cost £6,000. This is to pay for a review of the Chain of Evidence on key items, which were presented to the jury. These items were therefore key to the conviction of Jeremy Bamber. It is our belief based on our assessment of evidence that many exhibits have been fabricated in various ways to prejudice the trial in favour of the prosecution. For this to be proven in a court of law we require expert testimony.
What is a Chain of Evidence review and why is it important?
A Chain of Evidence protects the integrity of material evidence obtained by police. It is a criminal offence to alter evidence chains because it can seriously affect the outcome of a trial in which the items are exhibits. The review will focus on the Chain of Evidence for trial exhibits, which will include the entire paper trails for key items presented at trial, including: seizure of the evidence, exhibit labels, forensic reference numbers, item numbers, laboratory tests, results, records, witness statements, property books, booking in logs, photographs and expert reports as well as cross referencing for consistency.
Which items will the Chain of Evidence work focus on?
This is not a speculative investigation but a follow up on areas, which have already been identified to be of importance to the conviction and which show signs of tampering.
The bullets – One of the bullets recovered from Sheila Caffell was presented as ‘whole’ at trial, which was impossible if it was the same bullet recovered from her body by the pathologist and supported by x-rays as it was fragmented into at least 15 pieces. If this Chain of Evidence was tampered with it suggests that the bullets were swapped, possibly in the hope that bullets fired through a sound moderator end up in a different state to those not fired through a moderator.
Scratch evidence – The Chain of Evidence for the scratch marks needs to be investigated because the defence contends that photographs of the scratches were not taken on the day of the tragedies but weeks after. This contention is supported by many witness statements as well as photographs taken on the morning of the 7th August 1985. This work will prove that evidence of the scratch mark used in order to link the sound moderator with a fight in the kitchen during the tragedies was fabricated.
Hand swabs – Sheila Caffell’s hands were found to have very low levels of lead on them and the prosecution deemed this to be proof that she did not handle a gun, which had been fired 25 times. Nevertheless, the evidence of swabs taken from her hands had been tampered with and were initially rejected at the lab. Also, their exhibit numbers were changed. It is possible that Sheila's swabs were swapped with Nevill Bamber’s.
When do we need funding and where will the reports go?
For these initial three forensic issues we have a six-week time limit to obtain £6,000 for this work to be done by forensic experts in the relevant fields. The scientists will provide court reports on the handling of the evidence. This will enable the defence to prove that the trial jury was misled by exhibits that had been manipulated to pervert the course of justice. The reports will then be used with material already obtained in a new application for the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensics-360
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The bullets – One of the bullets recovered from Sheila Caffell was presented as ‘whole’ at trial, which was impossible if it was the same bullet recovered from her body by the pathologist and supported by x-rays as it was fragmented into at least 15 pieces. If this Chain of Evidence was tampered with it suggests that the bullets were swapped, possibly in the hope that bullets fired through a sound moderator end up in a different state to those not fired through a moderator.
The bullet presented as a trial exhibit wasn't whole. Moreover the shape of the exhibit perfectly matches the shape of PV/20 in the xray.
(http://s8.postimg.org/jsb8mcsph/sheilaxrayexhibit.jpg)
Scratch evidence – The Chain of Evidence for the scratch marks needs to be investigated because the defence contends that photographs of the scratches were not taken on the day of the tragedies but weeks after. This contention is supported by many witness statements as well as photographs taken on the morning of the 7th August 1985. This work will prove that evidence of the scratch mark used in order to link the sound moderator with a fight in the kitchen during the tragedies was fabricated.
The police fully admit they didn't photograph the scratch marks until after they discovered them. That is how police work they photograph things when they learn about such. How could they go take closeups of scratch marks before they knew they existed?
The notion that there is some way they can prove the scratch marks didn't exist right after the murders is impossible. They already tried such BS with Sutherst and failed miserably.
Hand swabs – Sheila Caffell’s hands were found to have very low levels of lead on them and the prosecution deemed this to be proof that she did not handle a gun, which had been fired 25 times. Nevertheless, the evidence of swabs taken from her hands had been tampered with and were initially rejected at the lab. Also, their exhibit numbers were changed. It is possible that Sheila's swabs were swapped with Nevill Bamber’s.
This is a known lie they should be charged with fraud for trying to raise money on the basis of such. They made these allegations to COLP and COLP already proved this nonsense to be untrue.
The lab clerk rejected the swabs because the person who bright them to the lab also brought firearms related to another case. His refusal to accept them was improper. Police had every right to submit them again. The person who submitted them didn't know they had been submitted previously so simply created a new designation to submit them under.
They are trying to raise money on the basis of previously disproved nonsense and the bogus claim they could figure out if the scratches were present on the day of the murders even though no amount of money could do such.
For anyone who contributes an old adage comes to mind- a fool and his money are soon parted.
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It seems to me that Bamber has a history of blaming dead people for his woes. One can only but imagine which deceased public official(s) he and his band of loonies have in their sights this time round?
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Greetings, mah friends. Mah name is Prince Jerrummee Bammbba of Nigeria, and I need your assistance. If you give me your heating allowance and funeral savings, ah will send you $15 million, very quickly. This is NOT a scam. Please send all your money to mah queen, Ermintrude. She will not spend it on a Volvo or a conservatory. Ah promise.
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Greetings, mah friends. Mah name is Prince Jerrummee Bammbba of Nigeria, and I need your assistance. If you give me your heating allowance and funeral savings, ah will send you $15 million, very quickly. This is NOT a scam. Please send all your money to mah queen, Ermintrude. She will not spend it on a Volvo or a conservatory. Ah promise.
I get those regularly from deepest Africa @)(++(*
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I get those regularly from deepest Africa @)(++(*
I had one from a friend of mine who'd been robbed whilst on holiday in deepest Africa. Funny that, I'd been with her the previous day.
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It's great to see Puglove and the Master Scipio posting again! 8((()*/
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It's great to see Puglove and the Master Scipio posting again! 8((()*/
8@??)( 8@??)( and Tim!
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8@??)( 8@??)( and Tim!
And Andy and Outlook!
Maybe we should start a thread about willies, skiing, Leeds, dogs, music and willies, and all tit about on a Saturday night again!
8(*(
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It seems to me that Bamber has a history of blaming dead people for his woes. One can only but imagine which deceased public official(s) he and his band of loonies have in their sights this time round?
Seriously, if anyone is still falling for this scrounging, never-ending pile of old crap, they must be as thick as mince. Or scouse.
8)-)))
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Seriously, if anyone is still falling for this scrounging, never-ending pile of old crap, they must be as thick as mince. Or scouse.
8)-)))
And I've seen Nelly's house. If Bamber really is desperate for 6 grand, all Nelly has to do is sack a couple of serfs and sell a statue. Job done.
8((()*/
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Thought I'd check in too whilst all the 'old timers' here seem to have resurfaced! 8(0(*
I do drop by and lurk from time to time to see what's new (not much though) but, as Shona so eloquently put it, I do miss titting about on a Saturday night!!
Regards to all. Tim, I'll look out for you on the slopes next month ?{)(**
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The bullet presented as a trial exhibit wasn't whole. Moreover the shape of the exhibit perfectly matches the shape of PV/20 in the xray.
(http://s8.postimg.org/jsb8mcsph/sheilaxrayexhibit.jpg)
The police fully admit they didn't photograph the scratch marks until after they discovered them. That is how police work they photograph things when they learn about such. How could they go take closeups of scratch marks before they knew they existed?
The notion that there is some way they can prove the scratch marks didn't exist right after the murders is impossible. They already tried such BS with Sutherst and failed miserably.
This is a known lie they should be charged with fraud for trying to raise money on the basis of such. They made these allegations to COLP and COLP already proved this nonsense to be untrue.
The lab clerk rejected the swabs because the person who bright them to the lab also brought firearms related to another case. His refusal to accept them was improper. Police had every right to submit them again. The person who submitted them didn't know they had been submitted previously so simply created a new designation to submit them under.
They are trying to raise money on the basis of previously disproved nonsense and the bogus claim they could figure out if the scratches were present on the day of the murders even though no amount of money could do such.
For anyone who contributes an old adage comes to mind- a fool and his money are soon parted.
I've never really understood these claims about PV/20. The image appears to show the bullet, earrings, and necklace removed from SC? Isn't it a case that hollow point bullets are designed to open up like a flower/petals hence an irregular shape on a radiograph that I guess could be interpreted as pieces as opposed to a whole? Round nose bullets maintain their shape therefore appear as whole on a radiograph?
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And Andy and Outlook!
Maybe we should start a thread about willies, skiing, Leeds, dogs, music and willies, and all tit about on a Saturday night again!
8(*(
Willies, tits and booze are a lot more interesting than this twaddle. Why do they say the shape of the bullet exactly matches PV20 in the X-ray? It doesn't. Is this another of Tesco's carefully photo-shopped images created by Enigma, the supercomputer he and Misty The Wonderdog built in his shed and named after the Nazi encoding machine?
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I've never really understood these claims about PV/20. The image appears to show the bullet, earrings, and necklace removed from SC? Isn't it a case that hollow point bullets are designed to open up like a flower/petals hence an irregular shape on a radiograph that I guess could be interpreted as pieces as opposed to a whole? Round nose bullets maintain their shape therefore appear as whole on a radiograph?
I originally uploaded and posted the attachment on blue.
The reasons I labeled the jewelry 1) is because various Jeremy proponents, especially Mike, were misrepresenting the jewelry as bullet fragments. The misrepresentations were in an effort to pretend that PV/20 was much smaller than it actually was. It would not have been the largest bullet fragment if the jewelry had actually been fragments. 2) to illustrate where the bullets were more clearly since we were arguing over the locations and the jewelry helped provide a frame of reference.
Depending upon how much travel time they can mushroom but also they deform and/or break apart from impacts including striking various parts inside a body.
Not understanding an argument can have 2 possible meanings. 1) It can mean that an argument makes no sense. 2) It can mean not genuinely understanding what the argument is.
Your questions seem to show you don't actually understand what their argument is.
In a nutshell their argument is that the PV/20 exhibit used at trial is not the bullet fragment seen in the xray that Vanezis removed. They falsely claim that the PV/20 used as an exhibit was a whole bullet. They say the authorities disposed of the fragment removed by Vanezis and replaced it with a bullet they fired from the Anschutz themselves that way they can pretend the bullet was fired by the Anshutz when it fact it wasn't.
The ultimate argument is thus that a different gun was used to fire PV/20. This made up claim is then used to argue that Anthony's gun was used to fire PV/20 or that police fired the shot depending up what conspiracy theory they feel like making up.
It is a false claim that the PV/20 exhibit used in court was a whole bullet. It weighed about 27 grains so was missing 13 grains. Moreover, the shape of PV/20 matches the shape in the xray perfectly. In the xray the round portion is a little light but you can still see it is there. Their argument is not genuinely geared to be used in court it is to try to scam money and fool stupid people. This is one of the amazing claims that originally caught my attention when someone told me about this case (another was the claim police concealed Nevill phoned them). I agreed to research this case because of so many spectacular claims of police wrongdoing. The grandiose claims all fell apart upon inspection though.
Why does the campaign team lie so much? Why do 9/11 conspiracy theorists lie so much? Joseph Goebbels is highly illustrative he basically said he who controls perception controls reality (the full quote is he who controls the media controls perception and thus reality). Not reality is the sense of what is true but what others believe reality to be. He also said in order for propaganda to succeed, "it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." Of course they don't control the press like the Nazis did nor can hide evidence thus they can only fool people who simply take their word for what they claim. People who do independent research to test their claims will discover they are false.
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Ear-rings!!? Those two largest pieces are never ear-rings!!! I can understand the radiographer/pathologist leaving the necklace fastened in place while taking the image... but loose ear-rings balanced on her neck?
More likely to be either fragmented bullet lead, or pieces of vertebral bone which have been forced towards the front of her neck by the bullet's impact.
We're short of an experienced radiologist to interpret exactly what those artefacts are.
(http://i.imgur.com/iiqNbSY.jpg?1)
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Ear-rings!!? Those two largest pieces are never ear-rings!!! I can understand the radiographer/pathologist leaving the necklace fastened in place while taking the image... but loose ear-rings balanced on her neck?
More likely to be either fragmented bullet lead, or pieces of vertebral bone which have been forced towards the front of her neck by the bullet's impact.
We're short of an experienced radiologist to interpret exactly what those artefacts are.
(http://i.imgur.com/iiqNbSY.jpg?1)
They failed to remove any of her jewelry. The head is to the side supposedly according to someone on blue In which case you see the front of one earring and the back of the other.
Upon closer look, it does look more to me like the head is straight. It could be that the biggest blip is PV/19.
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They failed to remove any of her jewelry. The head is to the side supposedly according to someone on blue In which case you see the front of one earring and the back of the other.
Upon closer look, it does look more to me like the head is straight. It could be that the biggest blip is PV/19.
I was just going to post before you edited and corrected... but that is definitely not a side view of the head. It's a front facial view. You can even see what could be an ear-ring in her left earlobe.
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I was just going to post before you edited and corrected... but that is definitely not a side view of the head. It's a front facial view. You can even see what could be an ear-ring in her left earlobe.
It looks like the back to me. I typed front by mistake. If front then you would see the teeth. It still might be the earrings in the xray but depending on the angle if pronounced enough could wind up showing PV19. It would help if we had all the xrays.
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some xrays from behind:
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/155267447.jpg?v=2&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=XrZbBE00rMVYORWmbpkDmh7uFJeKwxwU8qBpOkHGe6AYnDAax9uT0OuIguSYJqca0)
(http://www.socalpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Cervical-Spine-X-ray.jpg)
Sheila's head seems to be tilted some.
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I agree that her head is slightly tilted, but imo Sheila's x-ray is frontal. The R in your radiographs stands for the patient's right side, and the jaw line is more prominent than it would be if it was radiographed from the back.
The fragments are on Sheila's right side, exactly where the bullet impacted the fourth cervical vertebra...
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=668;image)
A frontal image with L indicating the patient's left side... https://radiopaedia.org/images/17232105 (https://radiopaedia.org/images/17232105)
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I accidentally forgot the xrays from behind and showed the front only.
Look at the difference of the ribs when taken from behind:
(https://s27.postimg.org/yxzxvtqxv/xrayback.jpg)
This doesn't match the ribs in the frontal xrays but does match Sheila's xray.
Also you can clearly see the difference between the lower and upper jaw and teeth from the front but not from behind at most you see the corner of the lower jaw depending on the angle the head is at.
(http://previews.123rf.com/images/deymos/deymos1405/deymos140500061/28716943-X-ray-of-a-cervical-spine-neck-of-a-senior-male-patient-view-from-patient-s-back-side-Stock-Photo.jpg)
Her neck is turned to look down and to the right. This gives the false impression the bullet is to the left and also causes the earrings to look so close to one another.
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My take:
(https://s24.postimg.org/xiszph44l/sheilaxray2.jpg)
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Hi
I agree that this new attempt to raise funds is a complete farce !
I wonder what JB supporters would be thinking if JB had the Balls to admit that he's guilty ?
JB is as guilty as sin and will thankfully be spending the rest of his remaining life in Prison !
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Hi
I agree that this new attempt to raise funds is a complete farce !
I wonder what JB supporters would be thinking if JB had the Balls to admit that he's guilty ?
JB is as guilty as sin and will thankfully be spending the rest of his remaining life in Prison !
Hello David123, I imagine they'd say that he'd done it under duress. That the balance of his mind had become disturbed by years of being wrongly incarcerated.
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Ear-rings!!? Those two largest pieces are never ear-rings!!! I can understand the radiographer/pathologist leaving the necklace fastened in place while taking the image... but loose ear-rings balanced on her neck?
More likely to be either fragmented bullet lead, or pieces of vertebral bone which have been forced towards the front of her neck by the bullet's impact.
We're short of an experienced radiologist to interpret exactly what those artefacts are.
(http://i.imgur.com/iiqNbSY.jpg?1)
Hello 8**8:/:
I can't claim to be an experienced radiologist or even know much about PV/20 but Dr V's trial testimony explains that that the track of this bullet finished in a bony part. Therefore it seems to me that in all probability the small pieces observed on the xray are bone fragments? Trial testimony attached.
The following link shows xrays of gsw's to the neck at figure 6a and 6b (quite a way down) and refers to bone fragments.
http://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/radiographics.19.5.g99se171358
This theory about PV/20 found fragmented but morphing into a whole bullet seems to emanate from MT.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,86.msg179.html#msg179
Unless I'm missing the point it just seems so bloody obvious?
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The OS/CT claim:
"The switched bullet, which was found to be fragmented into at lease 14 pieces by the pathologist, but appeared whole at trial".
What would be the purpose of anyone tampering with PV/20, falsifying documents etc in an attempt to make it whole if it was found fragmented?
When MF analysed bullets that had entered victims the bullets were found in various states:
- Whole
- Nearly whole
- Half
- Fragment
- Small fragment
He recorded PV/20 (aka item 61) from right side of SC's neck as whole. Again what would be the point in anyone messing about with PV/20?
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I see from the OP I missed the following explanation from the CT about PV/20:
"The bullets – One of the bullets recovered from Sheila Caffell was presented as ‘whole’ at trial, which was impossible if it was the same bullet recovered from her body by the pathologist and supported by x-rays as it was fragmented into at least 15 pieces. If this Chain of Evidence was tampered with it suggests that the bullets were swapped, possibly in the hope that bullets fired through a sound moderator end up in a different state to those not fired through a moderator".
What a load of tosh. As per the post above bullets recovered from victims were found in various states. Nothing to do with whether or not they were fired through a sound moderator. The bullets used at WHF have a muzzle velocity of just over 1000 feet per second. Therefore the chances of a bullet strking bone and loose bone fragments showing on an xray are significant.
Unless someone can come up with something significantly new I believe PV/20 was found whole and the pieces on the xray are simply bone fragments.
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Hello 8**8:/:
I can't claim to be an experienced radiologist or even know much about PV/20 but Dr V's trial testimony explains that that the track of this bullet finished in a bony part. Therefore it seems to me that in all probability the small pieces observed on the xray are bone fragments? Trial testimony attached.
The following link shows xrays of gsw's to the neck at figure 6a and 6b (quite a way down) and refers to bone fragments.
http://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/radiographics.19.5.g99se171358 (http://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/radiographics.19.5.g99se171358)
This theory about PV/20 found fragmented but morphing into a whole bullet seems to emanate from MT.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,86.msg179.html#msg179 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,86.msg179.html#msg179)
Unless I'm missing the point it just seems so bloody obvious?
Hello Holls!... you still hammering away? Better change sides for an easier life! 8((()*/
There's a lot more **** that emanates from Tesko... mainly while he's sat on the loo, hiding from wifey and making surreal videos.
As I said above, the fragments could either be lead or shattered bone. I think I'd go with the latter, because they seem too large to be additional remnants of the almost whole PV/20.
So I agree with your last post.
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It seems the CT are suggesting PV/20 was substituted in an attempt to hide the fact a silencer wasn't used. And MT is suggesting the bullet was substituted in an attempt to disguise the fact PV/20 was police issued ammo and the police shot SC. To coin an expression from MT!!!!!!!!!!
All pure BS imo. The only thing of interest here is that these 'supporters' are imo total cranks incapable of analysing the info properly, probably due in part to sheer laziness. I find it difficult to believe that anyone taking a short while to consider the matter could overlook the likelihood of the small white pieces being fragments of bone.
I think I will write to the CT sending a copy to JB letting them know exactly what I think. This whole circus is just getting beyond ridiculous.
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Hello Holls!... you still hammering away? Better change sides for an easier life! 8((()*/
There's a lot more **** that emanates from Tesko... mainly while he's sat on the loo, hiding from wifey and making surreal videos.
As I said above, the fragments could either be lead or shattered bone. I think I'd go with the latter, because they seem too large to be additional remnants of the almost whole PV/20.
So I agree with your last post.
Thanks 8((()*/
I joined Blue 2nd or 3rd Feb 2012 and said to myself at the 5 year point I would quit posting and would return to my former 'normal' life but as you said I'm still hammering away and its 19th Feb 8)><(
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My take:
(https://s24.postimg.org/xiszph44l/sheilaxray2.jpg)
What you've labelled as mastoid processes are actually the angles of the jawbone or mandible. The processes are higher up and towards the rear of the skull...
(http://i.imgur.com/Sn7BbL3.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/CGh34YM.jpg)
The outline of jaw bone is clearly seen in SC's and a comparative radiograph...
(http://i.imgur.com/yjWZdjI.jpg?1)
We'll have to disagree again on this point, scipio, like we did with what I (and Caro) believe to be bloody palm print on the bible. Nevertheless he's still guilty.
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Hi
I agree that this new attempt to raise funds is a complete farce !
I wonder what JB supporters would be thinking if JB had the Balls to admit that he's guilty ?
JB is as guilty as sin and will thankfully be spending the rest of his remaining life in Prison !
There are several classes:
1) Those who would accept it and move on to some other case or event to attack police over
2) Those who would say he was forced to give a false confession
3) Those who would deny he confessed and say the confession was faked
It just depends on the mindset of the supporter at issue.
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I see from the OP I missed the following explanation from the CT about PV/20:
"The bullets – One of the bullets recovered from Sheila Caffell was presented as ‘whole’ at trial, which was impossible if it was the same bullet recovered from her body by the pathologist and supported by x-rays as it was fragmented into at least 15 pieces. If this Chain of Evidence was tampered with it suggests that the bullets were swapped, possibly in the hope that bullets fired through a sound moderator end up in a different state to those not fired through a moderator".
What a load of tosh. As per the post above bullets recovered from victims were found in various states. Nothing to do with whether or not they were fired through a sound moderator. The bullets used at WHF have a muzzle velocity of just over 1000 feet per second. Therefore the chances of a bullet strking bone and loose bone fragments showing on an xray are significant.
Unless someone can come up with something significantly new I believe PV/20 was found whole and the pieces on the xray are simply bone fragments.
PV/20 is missing 13 plus grains so some of the small fragments likely were from the same bullet as PV/20.
The 2 largest objects near PV/20 in the xray most certainly were not bullet fragments. First of all if they were bullet fragments Vanezis would have recovered them given their size. Moreover, they are too large to have come from the same bullet as PV/20 so in order for them to be bullet fragments that would require more than 2 bullets to have entered Sheila.
They are taking truth that the PV/20 exhibit removed by Vanezis wasn't a whole bullet but rather just a bullet fragment and the fiction that the court exhibit PV/20 was an entire bullet to pretend that the court exhibit was a fake and not what Vanezis removed. The fiction is to enable various conspiracy claims that defeat Jeremy's responsibility. The allegations vary from police trainees shooting her to the raid team shooting her. Sometimes they don't even come up with a complete scenario and just use the claim of the substituted bullet to say police can't be trusted and were framing Jeremy without explaining how it worked. They often toss stuff out there to create amorphous suspicion. Kind of like when people shout illuminati.
I wonder what they actually intend to use the money for, it clearly isn't for the BS they claim.
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Hello 8**8:/:
I can't claim to be an experienced radiologist or even know much about PV/20 but Dr V's trial testimony explains that that the track of this bullet finished in a bony part. Therefore it seems to me that in all probability the small pieces observed on the xray are bone fragments? Trial testimony attached.
The following link shows xrays of gsw's to the neck at figure 6a and 6b (quite a way down) and refers to bone fragments.
http://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/radiographics.19.5.g99se171358
This theory about PV/20 found fragmented but morphing into a whole bullet seems to emanate from MT.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,86.msg179.html#msg179
Unless I'm missing the point it just seems so bloody obvious?
I'm used to seeing better quality films. Sometimes broken bone fragments show up other times they don't you just see gaps in bones you don't see the extra pieces. I would not be surprised if some of the tiny objects are fragments from the same bullet that PV/20 came from. 13 plus grains were missing. The 2 largest objects near PV/20 are definitely too large to have come from the same bullet that PV/20 came from and your suggestion that they are bone fragments is indeed possible.
Looking at the xray actually hurts their claim because the shape of PV/20 in the xray matches the court exhibit which clearly shows it is under 27 grains so not whole.
Imprecise language refers to the various objects bullets. To be precise they are all bullet fragments. Experts understand they are actually fragments and just call the largest fragment from each bullet a bullet for shorthand. Usually though in testimony they are referred to as fragments, precision is preferred to colloquial language. It will depend on the expert and lawyers though whether they are precise or not.
For example PV/5 was a fragment from the same bullet as either PV/10 or PV/11. On the examination records PV/10 and 11 were referred to as bullets though they were simply the largest fragment and there were other smaller fragments from the same bullets. It's ok to use imprecise language as long as everyone understands it's actual meaning. Where it can mislead and confuse it is preferable to be precise. That is why in my charts I referred to them as the largest fragments of each recovered bullet.
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I'm used to seeing better quality films. Sometimes broken bone fragments show up other times they don't you just see gaps in bones you don't see the extra pieces. I would not be surprised if some of the tiny objects are fragments from the same bullet that PV/20 came from. 13 plus grains were missing. The 2 largest objects near PV/20 are definitely too large to have come from the same bullet that PV/20 came from and your suggestion that they are bone fragments is indeed possible.
Looking at the xray actually hurts their claim because the shape of PV/20 in the xray matches the court exhibit which clearly shows it is under 27 grains so not whole.
Imprecise language refers to the various objects bullets. To be precise they are all bullet fragments. Experts understand they are actually fragments and just call the largest fragment from each bullet a bullet for shorthand. Usually though in testimony they are referred to as fragments, precision is preferred to colloquial language. It will depend on the expert and lawyers though whether they are precise or not.
For example PV/5 was a fragment from the same bullet as either PV/10 or PV/11. On the examination records PV/10 and 11 were referred to as bullets though they were simply the largest fragment and there were other smaller fragments from the same bullets. It's ok to use imprecise language as long as everyone understands it's actual meaning. Where it can mislead and confuse it is preferable to be precise. That is why in my charts I referred to them as the largest fragments of each recovered bullet.
Have you got the General Examination Record for PV/20 aka at the lab as item 61?
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Have you got the General Examination Record for PV/20 aka at the lab as item 61?
Yes you didn't think I just accepted Mike's numbers did you?
I just listed the weights in the other thread of all the fragments per the exam records.
(https://s23.postimg.org/vu1[Name removed]efxn/pv20examrecord.jpg)
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Willies, tits and booze are a lot more interesting than this twaddle. Why do they say the shape of the bullet exactly matches PV20 in the X-ray? It doesn't. Is this another of Tesco's carefully photo-shopped images created by Enigma, the supercomputer he and Misty The Wonderdog built in his shed and named after the Nazi encoding machine?
I did hear that Mike was very close to solving the case using Enigma. But his wife popped round to collect her post and took Enigma away because she wanted to toast a teacake.
8(8-))
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Sigh.
Caro and Janey J. Trying to have an intelligent debate (steady, Holls) with Mike and Clappedout is like trying to push a piano uphill. Or dragging a pug past a toffee that is stuck to a pavement. Their lives are so bleak.
8)><(
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Sigh.
Caro and Janey J. Trying to have an intelligent debate (steady, Holls) with Mike and Clappedout is like trying to push a piano uphill. Or dragging a pug past a toffee that is stuck to a pavement. Their lives are so bleak.
8)><(
And, Roch. I'm sorry, but your wordy posts bore me shitless.
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And, Roch. I'm sorry, but your wordy posts bore me shitless.
Off to bed now, happy and safe in the knowledge that Bamber is where he should be.
8((()*/
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Sigh.
Caro and Janey J. Trying to have an intelligent debate (steady, Holls) with Mike and Clappedout is like trying to push a piano uphill. Or dragging a pug past a toffee that is stuck to a pavement. Their lives are so bleak.
8)><(
Yeah, I know, Puglet, but a girl's gotta do wot a girl's gotta do ?{)(**
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Sigh.
Caro and Janey J. Trying to have an intelligent debate (steady, Holls) with Mike and Clappedout is like trying to push a piano uphill. Or dragging a pug past a toffee that is stuck to a pavement. Their lives are so bleak.
8)><(
They certainly don't want an honest debate. Mike distorts and when you post the truth he just keeps repeating the same tired lies and curses you. He called me a dozen different names from s..mbag to Fhead.
Take for instance how he still keeps insisting there is no evidence to prove that Bonnett and West were describing the same phonecall from Jeremy. Bonnett's COLP statement and other statements including the form he filled out makes clear he spoke to West and was recounting what West told him. It says West was the caller. That is indeed evidence that proves both refer to the same call. Furthermore it specifically refers to what the son was claiming. That's just one example where he refuses to be honest.
People like him raise BS like that because they have nothing legitimate to raise.
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I wasn't convinced at all with Mike's recent suggestion that a hit man team committed the massacre. Or that Nevill rang Bamber after Sheila had shot him twice.
Nugs's suggestions that RB found out he had similar blood to Sheila, so shot himself to create the back splatter effect in the silencer, or that the police should have investigated whether Bamber entered WHF via Nevill's/June's upstairs bedroom window, have also failed to get me to change stance.
Lookout hovers around the forum all day and tries to deflect the thread topic on guilty threads. Sometimes with success as other posters get involved in handbags at 10 paces petty squables.
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I wasn't convinced at all with Mike's recent suggestion that a hit man team committed the massacre. Or that Nevill rang Bamber after Sheila had shot him twice.
Nugs's suggestions that RB found out he had similar blood to Sheila, so shot himself to create the back splatter effect in the silencer, or that the police should have investigated whether Bamber entered WHF via Nevill's/June's upstairs bedroom window, have also failed to get me to change stance.
Lookout hovers around the forum all day and tries to deflect the thread topic on guilty threads.
Not believing insane nonsense isn't exactly a reason to beat one's chest- it's just being normal.
All Nugs has managed to prove over the years is that he/she is even more insane than Mike. Apart from there being no way for Boutflour to find out he had the same blood attributes as Sheila, he shot himself? How come no one ever found out about his gunshot wound if he had been shot? He shot himself and then treated his own wound like in some movie? This is a perfect example of just making up nonsense from thin air to avoid facing the actual evidence.
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Not believing insane nonsense isn't exactly a reason to beat one's chest- it's just being normal.
All Nugs has managed to prove over the years is that he/she is even more insane than Mike. Apart from there being no way for Boutflour to find out he had the same blood attributes as Sheila, he shot himself? How come no one ever found out about his gunshot wound if he had been shot? He shot himself and then treated his own wound like in some movie? This is a perfect example of just making up nonsense from thin air to avoid facing the actual evidence.
Not beating my chest at all. Other posters were commenting on posters.
Anyway, everyone misses you're barnies with Mike. But not a good idea to continually abuse the owner of a forum.
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Not beating my chest at all. Other posters were commenting on posters.
Anyway, everyone misses you're barnies with Mike. But best not to abuse the owner of a forum.
I was banned because he got tired of me refuting his BS. The actual event he used to ban me was total BS. All I did was point out to lookout that her claims were from Mike and quoted directly from an old post of his. Right after he banned me he posted a series of treads on crap that I refuted time and again with evidence that proved his claims nonsense. So it was basically preemptive so that his new threads would not be refuted.
Nothing new has been posted there in years so it is not much of a loss, it is just the same refuted broken record nonsense over and over which fits nicely with this thread because the campaign team does the same exact thing.
Granted they have no lives but it is amazing they can't find some modern case, controversy or cause to obsess over and occupy their time with. It seems they like being high up the totem pole and don't want to go somewhere else where they will just be even bigger nobodies.
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They certainly don't want an honest debate. Mike distorts and when you post the truth he just keeps repeating the same tired lies and curses you. He called me a dozen different names from s..mbag to Fhead.
Take for instance how he still keeps insisting there is no evidence to prove that Bonnett and West were describing the same phonecall from Jeremy. Bonnett's COLP statement and other statements including the form he filled out makes clear he spoke to West and was recounting what West told him. It says West was the caller. That is indeed evidence that proves both refer to the same call. Furthermore it specifically refers to what the son was claiming. That's just one example where he refuses to be honest.
People like him raise BS like that because they have nothing legitimate to raise.
You were lucky that he didn't give you a black eye complex. Or set his elk on you.
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You were lucky that he didn't give you a black eye complex. Or set his elk on you.
Eeeeew!!!... not only a moose loose aboot his hoose, but a sticky exclamation key as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!