Did this finding get followed up by the PJ?

[Robittybob1]

Was the laundry man mentioned here the one who picked up the laundry from the McCann apartment?  Do they have laundry chutes to collect the laundry from? 

[Robittybob1]

It seems keys are available to the laundry staff.

"When questioned, she says that her daily routine and that of her colleagues is the following: at 10.00 she goes to the laundry next to the Tapas Bar, where one of her superiors (Mariana, Bernadette or Francisca) gives her the keys corresponding to the apartments she has to clean.

After the morning shift she returns to the laundry where she and her colleagues have lunch.

After lunch she returns to the area she was working in.

At about 18.00 when she finishes work she returns to the laundry where she hands back the keys to her superior. She says that the keys are kept in special safes and that the superiors check they are complete."  from Custodia Maria dos Reis Espada http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CUSTODIA_ESPADA.htm

[Robittybob1]

Another virtually identical statement: by Isaura Romao Fernandes  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ISAURA_FERNANDES.htm

"When questioned, she says that her daily routine is the following: at 10.00 she goes to the laundry next to the Tapas area at which moment one of her superiors (Marina, Bernadette, Francisca) gives her the keys to the apartments she will clean.

After the morning shift she returns to the laundry where she and her colleagues have lunch. After lunch they go back to their working areas.

At 18.00 she returns to the laundry where she hands the keys over to her superior. She says the keys are kept in special safes and that the superior checks to see they are all there.

As far as she knows there is only one copy of the keys in the laundry, thinking there must be copies in the reception."

[Robittybob1]

Another virtually identical statement to the two above: Natalia da Gloria Soares Camacho http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NATALIA_CAMACHO.htm

"When asked, she says that her daily routine - and that of her colleagues - is the following: at 10.00 she goes to the laundry next to the Tapas Bar where one of her superiors (Marina, Bernadette or Francisca) gives her the keys of the apartments to be cleaned.

After the morning shift she goes to the laundry again during lunchtime, that is where she and her colleagues eat their lunch.

After lunch she returns to her area of work.

At about 18.00 she returns to the laundry and gives the keys back to the superior in charge.

She says that the keys are kept in special safes for this purpose and when she returns the keys to her superiors they always check that all the keys are there.

During lunchtime, the keys are kept by the cleaners and are not deposited in the safes.

As far as she knows, the laundry only has one copy of each key, thinking that more keys corresponding to the apartments are kept in the reception."


Why are these statements virtually word for word the same?

[jassi]

Another virtually identical statement to the two above: Natalia da Gloria Soares Camacho http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NATALIA_CAMACHO.htm

"When asked, she says that her daily routine - and that of her colleagues - is the following: at 10.00 she goes to the laundry next to the Tapas Bar where one of her superiors (Marina, Bernadette or Francisca) gives her the keys of the apartments to be cleaned.

After the morning shift she goes to the laundry again during lunchtime, that is where she and her colleagues eat their lunch.

After lunch she returns to her area of work.

At about 18.00 she returns to the laundry and gives the keys back to the superior in charge.

She says that the keys are kept in special safes for this purpose and when she returns the keys to her superiors they always check that all the keys are there.

During lunchtime, the keys are kept by the cleaners and are not deposited in the safes.

As far as she knows, the laundry only has one copy of each key, thinking that more keys corresponding to the apartments are kept in the reception."


Why are these statements virtually word for word the same?

Maybe they are better at making concise statements than certain doctors 

[Robittybob1]

This was discussed at some stage on the forum. The conclusion reached was that it was one of the two western end garages in Block 2 (called Coraluz) immediately north of Block 5, based on what SC & the grey-haired man were discussing.
Images attached.

I see the main entrance to these apartments is from the next road North, but there is a back entrance off Rua Augostinho da Silva.  but it is to the Eastern end of the section.  The man Jane saw walking from the West to the East across Rua Francisco Gentil Martins could have just as easily gone into these apartments rather than continue on towards Murat's villa.

[Sunny]

Maybe they are better at making concise statements than certain doctors 

I did notice that the FLO statements were virtually the same too. Perhaps there is a bulk discount available for multiple statements all saying the same thing.

[Robittybob1]

Maybe they are better at making concise statements than certain doctors 

To me word for word statements suggest coaching of witnesses.  Either that or the PJ saving time.

I did notice that the FLO statements were virtually the same too. Perhaps there is a bulk discount available for multiple statements all saying the same thing.

There is evidence the FLOs were coached to all say the same statement to the PJ, but should the people who have access to the keys to the apartment where Madeleine went missing from all say the same thing about key security?

[misty]

Does anyone know who this Dave is mentioned in Stephen Carpenter's statement?

"At this moment I also met an English man called Dave who lived in the area and helped the Ocean Club to authorise entry into all the apartments possible, some of the apartments in Gerry's block belonged to local owners and Dave helped to get the keys to these apartments so that they could check them and search them, they checked them all in a general manner.

The man was a local called Dave Shelton.

http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2007/05/06/we-know-maddy-monster/  (Sunday Express)
*snipped*
Search co-ordinator Dave Shelton, 38, from Manchester, who has lived in the village for more than 16 years running an air conditioning company, said: “I came here first on Friday morning, I speak a little Portuguese and was helping police knock on the doors of all the apartments. Then people just started coming out of the woodwork saying, ‘We’ve heard, what can we do to help’.”

[Robittybob1]

The man was a local called Dave Shelton.

http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2007/05/06/we-know-maddy-monster/  (Sunday Express)
*snipped*
Search co-ordinator Dave Shelton, 38, from Manchester, who has lived in the village for more than 16 years running an air conditioning company, said: “I came here first on Friday morning, I speak a little Portuguese and was helping police knock on the doors of all the apartments. Then people just started coming out of the woodwork saying, ‘We’ve heard, what can we do to help’.”

You are a gem Misty.  Thanks.  Tell me, how did you find that?

[misty]

You are a gem Misty.  Thanks.  Tell me, how did you find that?

I'd read it previously & remembered the name. :)

[Miss Taken Identity]

The man was a local called Dave Shelton.

http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2007/05/06/we-know-maddy-monster/  (Sunday Express)
*snipped*
Search co-ordinator Dave Shelton, 38, from Manchester, who has lived in the village for more than 16 years running an air conditioning company, said: “I came here first on Friday morning, I speak a little Portuguese and was helping police knock on the doors of all the apartments. Then people just started coming out of the woodwork saying, ‘We’ve heard, what can we do to help’.”

This puts to rest the  denial of 'nothing being done'!

[Edited by mod to keep on topic of things related to the garage under the neighbouring apartment.]

[Robittybob1]

I am trying very hard to understand what Steve Carpenter is saying - so I would prefer to have no discussion re other matters please on this thread.
There are plenty of other threads to have raves on about the inaction of the McCanns.

This thread is trying to understand Stephen Carpenter's statement, something from what appears on the internet never successfully achieved.

In his rogatory statement there is nothing so far to suggest the interviewing officer or the monitoring officers understood him either.


SC:
"SC: And when we entered the garage I asked who lived there, he replied that his son lived there and then there were distractions and because I was concentrated on the fifty year old English man, this man is Portuguese, it was only afterwards when I thought later about what we were searching for, it didn't occur to me and I think it is because of this that i mentioned it in my statement two weeks later, because I remember that there had been some distortions.

DCF: Yes."
Was it right that DCF should follow that sentence with a "Yes"?  What was it telling SC?  Was DCF implying he understood SC?  Understanding of that sentence has defied everyone for the last 10 years.

"because I remember that there had been some distortions"  - what does that mean?  I have a feeling he means "misunderstanding"  There had been some misunderstanding of who's son lived in the garage.

[Lace]

I am trying very hard to understand what Steve Carpenter is saying - so I would prefer to have no discussion re other matters please on this thread.
There are plenty of other threads to have raves on about the inaction of the McCanns.

This thread is trying to understand Stephen Carpenter's statement, something from what appears on the internet never successfully achieved.

In his rogatory statement there is nothing so far to suggest the interviewing officer or the monitoring officers understood him either.


SC:
"SC: And when we entered the garage I asked who lived there, he replied that his son lived there and then there were distractions and because I was concentrated on the fifty year old English man, this man is Portuguese, it was only afterwards when I thought later about what we were searching for, it didn't occur to me and I think it is because of this that i mentioned it in my statement two weeks later, because I remember that there had been some distortions.

DCF: Yes."
Was it right that DCF should follow that sentence with a "Yes"?  What was it telling SC?  Was DCF implying he understood SC?  Understanding of that sentence has defied everyone for the last 10 years.

"because I remember that there had been some distortions"  - what does that mean?  I have a feeling he means "misunderstanding"  There had been some misunderstanding of who's son lived in the garage.

Were there toys in the garage?

[Robittybob1]

Were there toys in the garage?

That is how I understand it.  The toys were in this garage that had been turned into a bedroom.  Was the owner of the garage there, I'm not sure, but someone must have had a key or given permission to open it and search it.

I am starting to get the picture of what is happening here, DCF is reading parts of Stephen's original statement, but also making comments on the original statement, and replying to Steve's new responses.

Now as I understand it the Laundry van was parked near Murat's house, and the apartment that Stephen and Caroline were staying that week was near Murat's as well. (Remember that is how Steve met Robert, across the back fence of Murat's property), so from all that I take it that the laundry man parked the van near Murat's house.  Maybe this is where the laundry man lived in that area, and because they were close Steve had seen the laundry man and estimated his age at 50 years.

Quote:
"SC: Of course with Murat there is Murat and the Russian individual, you know....I thought that we might well be looking for the totally wrong person and the fact that a bed existed in the garage and some children's toys.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I thought, ohhh...its worth mentioning this and that's the reason I mentioned it in my statement.
DCF: Fine, now (inaudible) describe the Portuguese man, the laundry man to me, yes'

SC: Yes.
I am certain that I read about this at the beginning, which (inaudible)' I think that afterwards, and afterwards coincides with the fact that he was the man from the laundry and of the van parked there, because as i have already explained, we were here in a small street here above which linked to the main road and to everything beside here on top, the rest was all pathways and I remember that on two or three occasions I thought...this is a dead end road, the van was parked there, I never saw anyone and more than once assumed that it would be cleaning staff and only this thought coincided with the presence of the man from the laundry, and if there were any reply to be made in relation to the link between the van parked there and the laundry man.
DCF: Yes.

SC: Murat here, I think and the laundry thing here.

DCF: Yes

SC: And I would once again give the reason why I mentioned the subject..

DCF: Of what age did the laundry man appear to be'

SC: Humm, I do not remember clearly what I said, but obviously at times Europeans appear older than they are, because of

DCF...(inaudible) the sun.

SC: Yes with the sun, that was what I said in the statement (inaudible).

DCF: I am going to try to locate the first pages where it was mentioned, but there is no description.

SC: Forty five to fifty years old, I think.

DCF: I'm just trying to think what age the man would be, it is difficult to say for the man that I saw, but he would have been of an age that implied that he could have a small child living in the garage or it could be expected that the had a grown up child.

SC: Oh, I think he would have been about, you know.... eighteen years, twenty or twenty two years old to live in the back of a garage because it had large cupboards and other things, but to live in a garage would mean that he had to be eighteen or more, because of a question of safety and because it was not the best way to live.

DCF: No. Then as you say the children's toys seemed to you to be out of context'

SC: Yes, yes.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Yes, mainly because I would think of someone aged eighteen or slightly more.

DCF: And then the Mark Warner staff, obviously it was after your return when this was still being investigated, the staff had photos of Madeleine that the man handed to an individual called C**** and his girlfriend to be distributed.

SC: Ah ah, yes.

DCF: Its in the part where it mentions that there was a van, and says that it was parked at the back of Robert Murat'' garden, and that you never saw anyone use the van, but you remember that it had something to do with the cleaning staff.

SC: Yes, to transport the bedlinen and towels.

DCF: Yes. It says here that you never saw anyone drive it, you just know that you saw it parked, did you ever notice that it was missing or do you remember always seeing it there'

SC:Humm, no...no it was not always there, I saw it about two or three times."

So the laundry van was not at the garage where the toys were. 
But I think the laundry man opened the garage where the laundry man's son lived, presumably with children staying occassionally (toys).
But Steve estimates how old the son is without ever seeing him.  Like he thinks the son would have to be over 18 years to live there, but to be 18 and have kids?  He gets confused.

The son may have been much much older than Steve ever thought. 

Could the son be the man of about 35 years that Jane saw carrying the child in the direction of the pathway to the garage?  How old did Jane say the man was?
Steve had obviously seen the laundry man and the laundry van in the area but had never seen the laundry man drive the van, but he had put them together in his attempt to understand the situation.


"DCF: I'm just trying to think what age the man would be, it is difficult to say for the man that I saw, but he would have been of an age that implied that he could have a small child living in the garage or it could be expected that the had a grown up child."

Steve wrote in his original statement "it is difficult to say for the man that I saw"  so he did see the laundry man and had trouble estimating his age, because of the sun damage, and the presence of the toys.