Group timeline after Madeleine's disappearance + Control Risks Emma Knights etc.

[sadie]

On seeing that Kate has said their earlier statements were lost in translation.

Gerry McCann 4th May

In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Gerry McCann 10th May

He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Were those two statements supposed to have been the same originally then, and it was just translation error?

This was at abouit 11am on the morning after.  He must have been distressed almost out of his mind ...  and had had almost no sleep.  Gerry is obviously not functioning properly; he calls the appartment "The Club"

Oh, and he was refering tio the front door in the one section (Key unlocking etc). and the patio door in the other.(sliding). 


With the lack of sleep and the extreme the worry etc that he must have been experiencing it is a remakable that he could remember anything; his mind must have been in a terrible jumble.

SIMPLES.  Why make an accusatory "something" out of it ?

[Robittybob1]

I thought there were about 4 claims that needed verification.

1.. Then Emma Knights (client support director) searched the beach area ("the beach,
 the search area to which she was assigned by Lyndsey Johnson (child care director and search coordinator").

2.. and asked Kate what Madeleine had been wearing.

3.. Shortly afterwards Emma returned to the McCann's apartment and stayed with Kate.

4.. Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by Emma Knights when she was on her way to the beach

In her rogatory statement she may confirm all these points (I seem to recollect some of them) but that is really with hindsight.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm   "Witness statement of Emma Louise Knight (Hotel Manager) 2008.04.30"

1. "In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay."

2.  "At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'."

So how did Lyndsey find out prior to 22.17? 

Lyndsey says "She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared. At that, she immediately launched the "missing child" procedure. This procedure consists of dividing the site into several areas, which are allocated to various of the company's employees to start searching for the missing child."

So it was Amy who put a name on the missing girl, but Amy had been working at the night creche and she had to walk from there to the McCann's apartment (a 10 minute walk I believe), confirm with Kate that Madeleine was really missing and then to walk over to her office at the tapas and ring Lyndsey who then rang Emma Knights at 10:17 PM.
10 minute walk from night creche to G5A
5 minute check to confirm Madeleine not in the apartment
2 minutes walk back to office and to ring Lyndsay

That means Amy Tierney suspected the missing girl was Madeleine  earlier than Kate started off on her check at 10:00 or 10:03 if we accept Gerry's statement.

Now to make matters worse the lady who told Amy had to speak to someone out on the street looking for Maddie, so either she or the man had to also make the 5 -10 minute walk from 5A over to the night creche.  And then to communicate with the girls in the night creche (a couple of minutes sorting that out.)

So that means to me that the latest that man was aware Madeleine was missing was 9:48 PM i.e. a good 20 minutes before Kate returned to the Tapas with her alarm. at 10:03 plus 5 minutes for her check and return.= i.e. 10:08 Alarm raised by Kate.

Who was this man who informed the lady who picked up her daughter from the night creche?

[faithlilly]

This was at abouit 11am on the morning after.  He must have been distressed almost out of his mind ...  and had had almost no sleep.  Gerry is obviously not functioning properly; he calls the appartment "The Club"

Oh, and he was refering tio the front door in the one section (Key unlocking etc). and the patio door in the other.(sliding). 


With the lack of sleep and the extreme the worry etc that he must have been experiencing it is a remakable that he could remember anything; his mind must have been in a terrible jumble.

SIMPLES.  Why make an accusatory "something" out of it ?

I think that Gerry, in his second statement, remembered that to use his key he would have to pass the now open window that Tanner’s ‘abductor’ had opened. Queue change of recollection.

[Sunny]

This was at abouit 11am on the morning after.  He must have been distressed almost out of his mind ...  and had had almost no sleep.  Gerry is obviously not functioning properly; he calls the appartment "The Club"

Oh, and he was refering tio the front door in the one section (Key unlocking etc). and the patio door in the other.(sliding). 


With the lack of sleep and the extreme the worry etc that he must have been experiencing it is a remakable that he could remember anything; his mind must have been in a terrible jumble.

SIMPLES.  Why make an accusatory "something" out of it ?

Sadie he was staying in the ocean club so that would be the club. Secondly could you clarify what you mean about "sections"? They are two seperate statements 7 days apart and both are describing his entering 5a as far as I know.

[Robittybob1]

I think that Gerry, in his second statement, remembered that to use his key he would have to pass the now open window that Tanner’s ‘abductor’ had opened. Queue change of recollection.

Only if the abduction involving an open window had commenced at 9:05 which is so unlikely considering the Paynes and Matt had just been around there.

[Robittybob1]

I thought there were about 4 claims that needed verification.

1.. Then Emma Knights (client support director) searched the beach area ("the beach,
 the search area to which she was assigned by Lyndsey Johnson (child care director and search coordinator").

2.. and asked Kate what Madeleine had been wearing.

3.. Shortly afterwards Emma returned to the McCann's apartment and stayed with Kate.

4.. Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by Emma Knights when she was on her way to the beach

In her rogatory she says :I returned to the location where the leaflets were being distributed and passed on the information that I had gathered about the missing girl. Lyndsey was busy with the distribution of the leaflets and I went to search in the beach area. On my return I passed by the Duke Pub where I met other members of staff who also joined in the searches."

So here she says "and I went to search in the beach area" and that seemed to be on her own inclination which is different to bullet point #1.

There is no mention in the rogatory of seeing David and Russell on the way to the beach. 

So how did that report come to that conclusion?  Was it just from her conversation to the analyst?

[Sunny]

Rob, it didn't take as long as I thought. From Kate's book

By the Sunday evening we found ourselves giving our statements again, this time to a couple of detectives from Control Risks. We were concerned that parts of the statements we had made to the Portuguese police , especially on that first day, might have been lost in translation. We also felt that these accounts were not particularly thorough and wanted to have every detail we could remember registered properly.

Unfortunately in our haste to pass the new statements on to the PJ, we made the mistake of assuming that the transcripts would be correct and discovered only many months later that these, too, contained inaccuracies.  And they had been given and recorded in English!

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vCULWkAvbu0C&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq="by+the+sunday+evening"+kate+mccann+madeleine&source=bl&ots=q25FCtGVK5&sig=gFVTS_D5fYIkYRCE8-3Cj_Fdr1g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid4O2Jn7LdAhUKJcAKHWPTDtoQ6AEwAXoECAcQAQ

Rob did you see this earlier post.. I would have thought that any Emma Knight statement would have been passed to the PJ with the others. Are these additional statements in the files though?

[Robittybob1]

Rob did you see this earlier post.. I would have thought that any Emma Knight statement would have been passed to the PJ with the others. Are these additional statements in the files though?

No they are not.  The statements made to Control Risks are not in the file.

[Sunny]

No they are not.  The statements made to Control Risks are not in the file.

Which is very odd as Kate is very clear that these statements were passed to the PJ and also they found inaccuracies months later.   I wonder where they went.

[Robittybob1]

Which is very odd as Kate is very clear that these statements were passed to the PJ and also they found inaccuracies months later.   I wonder where they went.

Control Risks could have asked that any statement they made be not released to the public at the time of archiving the case.  All the UK police statements were also not allowed to be released.

[pathfinder73]

This was at abouit 11am on the morning after.  He must have been distressed almost out of his mind ...  and had had almost no sleep.  Gerry is obviously not functioning properly; he calls the appartment "The Club"

Oh, and he was refering tio the front door in the one section (Key unlocking etc). and the patio door in the other.(sliding). 


With the lack of sleep and the extreme the worry etc that he must have been experiencing it is a remakable that he could remember anything; his mind must have been in a terrible jumble.

SIMPLES.  Why make an accusatory "something" out of it ?

They were functioning ok to delete mobile records and get new phones.

[Robittybob1]

I have often wondered about Emma Knights and her role that night.  Here she is saying she was in the apartment a long time but were any of her hairs found in the apartment?  Does anyone mention that she stayed in the apartment?  Did anyone see her or mention her?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-SEP-07.htm#oa29-p11to14
"Then Emma Knights (client support director) searched the beach area and asked Kate what Madeleine had been wearing. Shortly afterwards Emma returned to the McCann's apartment and stayed with Kate."

"848 to 849 Service information regarding number of people questioned" "LISTS OF OC/MW STAFF INTERVIEWED"
says about Emma Knight ". Due to their absence, three individuals were not questioned, Euan Crosby, Steven Jackson and Emma Knights respectively."  Well she seems present at the time the Control Risks are doing this analysis.

Her name appears on this list "LIST OF PEOPLE MCCANN'S WANTED INTERVIEWED"  Does that mean she would not have been interviewed at all had the McCanns not requested it?

"We submit that, their testimony [being] essential to the discovery of the truth, and given that the witnesses designated above actually live in the United Kingdom, where they will be found, (except Dan Smith and Emma Knights who will be found in Portugal), it is requested further, under Arts. 229 and following of CPP, 145 and following of Law 14-4/99 of 31 August (Law of International Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters) and 3 and following of the European Convention on Mutual Legal Support in Criminal Matters, that a Rogatory Letter be expedited for them to be heard in the United Kingdom. " 
It seems uncertain whether Emma lives in England or Portugal.

[Robittybob1]

Fiona Payne in her rogatory  mentions Emma Knights:

"Fairly soon after, erm, a girl called Emma, who, I don't know what her position in MARK WARNER was, she was sort of, erm, tut, I don't know what you call them, she was mainly working at the reception area, just as a, erm, tut, I don't know what you call her job title, she was sort of looking after everybody'.
 
 
 1485
 'Just one of the travel assistants or something, yeah''
 
 
 Reply
 'Yeah. Erm, huh, I mean, I don't know what time she got there, it seemed quite early on, she was, she was in the room for the most part, it was me, Emma and Kate with Gerry and Dave sort of to'ing and fro'ing until the first lot of Police arrived'."

[Robittybob1]

  Emma Knight or Knights

[pathfinder73]

Emma Knight was first to be apartment to get a description of missing Madeleine. Only Kate and Fiona were present at that time around 10:20pm.