Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Brietta]

The prosecutor says the McCanns  stayed at the Ocean Club all week and they had no contacts in Portugal. That information, in my opinion, came from the McCanns and their friends as I can see no evidence that the PJ investigated those matters.

Really???  Exactly just how incompetent do you believe the Policia Judiciaria to have been when conducting the investigation into Madeleine's case?

[G-Unit]

Really???  Exactly just how incompetent do you believe the Policia Judiciaria to have been when conducting the investigation into Madeleine's case?

Did the prosecutor check or just assume?

[G-Unit]

It says it's not necessarily indicative and cannot be extrapolated... I would add it cannot be ignored

Suggesting it raises questions about other dogs and handlers does not contradict either statement...

It raises, serious questions that need to be answered to understand the true reliability of the alerts


It says not necessarily indicative.... Not.... Not indicative

No matter what you say, this study has no relevance to any other dog trainer.handler.

[Mr Gray]

No matter what you say, this study has no relevance to any other dog trainer.handler.

That's your opinion and is totally wrong... It is absolutely relevant... Operator bias has already been discussed re the alerts... This, study proved it can be a major factor

[G-Unit]

That's your opinion and is totally wrong... It is absolutely relevant... Operator bias has already been discussed re the alerts... This, study proved it can be a major factor

As far as I know the experiment was never repeated, therefore it was never verified. In order to be scientifically reliable repeatability is required.  One study doesn't create data which can be used to generalise.

[Mr Gray]

As far as I know the experiment was never repeated, therefore it was never verified. In order to be scientifically reliable repeatability is required.  One study doesn't create data which can be used to generalise.

the study is enough to raise questions about the reliability of alerts. Without proper scientific tests its erroneous to claim the alerts have any reliability...they simply have not been properly tested...this study certainly does raise some issues re the reliability.

I have said before that just because a dog has  95% record in telling the difference between a contaminated article and a non contaminated article.... Does not mean that aletts given in the type of search carried out in Luz are 95% accurate

[Robittybob1]

No matter what you say, this study has no relevance to any other dog trainer.handler.

Why not?

[Mr Gray]

Why not?

its probably the most significant information re the alerts in the last 10 years

[Brietta]

Did the prosecutor check or just assume?

You mean the Policia Judiciaria didn't present a final report to the Prosecutors for their perusal?  Surely that was either terribly remiss of them or you just haven't read the files properly.

[Robittybob1]

its probably the most significant information re the alerts in the last 10 years

The suggestion that the study needs to be repeated is sensible. 

[Mr Gray]

The suggestion that the study needs to be repeated is sensible.

of course it is....the suggestion it has no relevance isnt...

the whole point is that there are not enough studies to make claims about reliability...there needs to be more if the alerts are tobe taken seriously

The question is why are dog handlers not organising more proper studies...   are they frightened at being caught out

[Brietta]

of course it is....the suggestion it has no relevance isnt...

the whole point is that there are not enough studies to make claims about reliability...there needs to be more if the alerts are tobe taken seriously

The question is why are dog handlers not organising more proper studies...   are they frightened at being caught out

Just started reading this so haven't formed an opinion yet ... but I thought this pertinent to the discussion.

Page 6
1.1.2 Effectiveness and Limitations
Cadaver dogs have been a forensic tool for over 50 years, but there is little scientific research into their effectiveness and limitations.
Unlike DNA analysis, cadaver dogs have not been scientifically validated and thus, their evidence in court is often viewed with caution
https://opus.lib.uts.edu.au/bitstream/10453/62158/2/02whole.pdf

[Alice Purjorick]

Can you suggest any reason it would be different?  Basically the same breeds are used, same anatomy, similar training methods I'd imagine (dogs rewarded for successful find).

I do not know
The question was why do YOU think it will be the same or similar?

[G-Unit]

Why not?

If another group of handlers and dogs took the same test the results could be completely different.

[Mr Gray]

If another group of handlers and dogs took the same test the results could be completely different.

The test has given an indication that handler bias plays a part in the alerts... Itis a significant result