Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 294685 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1305 on: July 19, 2019, 12:25:38 AM »
Grime presented them in court... Testified... Gave evidence


https://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of-appeals/1683760.html

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car
"At trial, FBI Canine Program Manager Rex Stockham testified as an expert in forensic canine operation. Stockham testified about the process of training and testing victim recovery dogs. Stockham's protocol called for regular single-and double-blind testing of dogs throughout their working lives. Stockham's program had three full-time handlers in its program, including Martin Grime. Stockham testified that he had tested Morse and Keela, Grime's dogs, and that both dogs had accuracy ratings in the high 90 percent range. Stockham testified that dogs have been able to smell the odor of decomposition as soon as 2 hours after a victim's death, or years after a victim's burial.

Grime testified as an expert in the training and employment of cadaver dogs. According to Grime, he is a full-time contractor for the FBI. Grime worked with Morse, a dog “trained to search for and detect the odor of decomposing human remains,” and Keela, “trained to search for and locate specifically human blood.” Grime testified that there was no methodology to test the dogs' responses when there is no recoverable material, and that the odor of decomposition may transfer if a person touches a dead body and then touches something else.

According to Grime, on December 4, 2011, he took his dogs to an enclosed warehouse that contained 31 vehicles. Grime was told that Bianca was in one of the vehicles at the time of the carjacking, but was not told which vehicle was involved. Morse alerted Grime to the presence of the odor of decomposition in the back seat and trunk of a silver Grand Marquis. Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car. Grime did not know where the objects were located in the building, and the objects had been placed in a room filled with “all sorts of things.” Morse alerted Grime to the odor of decomposition in Bianca's car seat and a bag containing Bianca's blanket. Grime later took the dogs to Dungey's house. Morse alerted him to the odor of decomposition in a room that contained bunk beds and a closet without a door."

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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1306 on: July 19, 2019, 01:05:55 AM »
"At trial, FBI Canine Program Manager Rex Stockham testified as an expert in forensic canine operation. Stockham testified about the process of training and testing victim recovery dogs. Stockham's protocol called for regular single-and double-blind testing of dogs throughout their working lives. Stockham's program had three full-time handlers in its program, including Martin Grime. Stockham testified that he had tested Morse and Keela, Grime's dogs, and that both dogs had accuracy ratings in the high 90 percent range. Stockham testified that dogs have been able to smell the odor of decomposition as soon as 2 hours after a victim's death, or years after a victim's burial.

Grime testified as an expert in the training and employment of cadaver dogs. According to Grime, he is a full-time contractor for the FBI. Grime worked with Morse, a dog “trained to search for and detect the odor of decomposing human remains,” and Keela, “trained to search for and locate specifically human blood.” Grime testified that there was no methodology to test the dogs' responses when there is no recoverable material, and that the odor of decomposition may transfer if a person touches a dead body and then touches something else.

According to Grime, on December 4, 2011, he took his dogs to an enclosed warehouse that contained 31 vehicles. Grime was told that Bianca was in one of the vehicles at the time of the carjacking, but was not told which vehicle was involved. Morse alerted Grime to the presence of the odor of decomposition in the back seat and trunk of a silver Grand Marquis. Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car. Grime did not know where the objects were located in the building, and the objects had been placed in a room filled with “all sorts of things.” Morse alerted Grime to the odor of decomposition in Bianca's car seat and a bag containing Bianca's blanket. Grime later took the dogs to Dungey's house. Morse alerted him to the odor of decomposition in a room that contained bunk beds and a closet without a door."

They are remarkable. Accuracy (as I stated earlier at 90+%). IMO, to suggest, in the McCann case, that both dogs were wrong eleven times between them... and that when they were wrong by some amazing coincidence this was always in the presence of articles directly related to one family would be an unbelievable suggestion...  "Ludicrous" would be a good description, IMO.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1307 on: July 19, 2019, 02:08:24 AM »
They are remarkable. Accuracy (as I stated earlier at 90+%). IMO, to suggest, in the McCann case, that both dogs were wrong eleven times between them... and that when they were wrong by some amazing coincidence this was always in the presence of articles directly related to one family would be an unbelievable suggestion...  "Ludicrous" would be a good description, IMO.
But no matter how many times the dogs alert at no time will the dog say it was Madeleine's cadaver.  At no time will the dogs  whisper the McCanns did it. At no time do the dogs agree on the time it happened.  All it points to that there was an unidentified cadaver in the room at sometime in the past and we don't know how it got in there.
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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1308 on: July 19, 2019, 02:26:49 AM »
But no matter how many times the dogs alert at no time will the dog say it was Madeleine's cadaver.  At no time will the dogs  whisper the McCanns did it. At no time do the dogs agree on the time it happened.  All it points to that there was an unidentified cadaver in the room at sometime in the past and we don't know how it got in there.

Yes I agree with that. It seems a cadaver, at some point, also got in the hire car and had contact (directly or indirectly) with Cuddle Cat and KM's clothes, IMO.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1309 on: July 19, 2019, 02:31:05 AM »
Yes I agree with that. It seems a cadaver, at some point, also got in the hire car and had contact (directly or indirectly) with Cuddle Cat and KM's clothes, IMO.
Yes it is all very mysterious.
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Offline misty

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1310 on: July 19, 2019, 02:44:49 AM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7483.0  (Sapo TV interview with Amaral 2010?)
*snipped*
GA : We are running out of time, you told me so, let's change the format, I'm going to tell you very quickly one important thing : as for the couple McCann, they only mentioned  leaving on the day that British dogs arrived to Portugal and after Mr. Gerald McCann learnt the potentialities of those dogs, and to let everything clear and why I wrote the book...
MST : I don't see the connection, if they'd be in London, wouldn't the dogs act the same way?
GA : Here the dogs seem to have failed, it's because of the heat in Algarve.
MST : What difference can they make by being here or not, at the same time as the dogs?
GA : What difference? They knew what was going to happen next, until that, they walked holding hands and the PJ gave them information every week.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why did Amaral think the dogs had failed? Was he implying they didn't find what they were meant to find?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1311 on: July 19, 2019, 02:51:07 AM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7483.0  (Sapo TV interview with Amaral 2010?)
*snipped*
GA : We are running out of time, you told me so, let's change the format, I'm going to tell you very quickly one important thing : as for the couple McCann, they only mentioned  leaving on the day that British dogs arrived to Portugal and after Mr. Gerald McCann learnt the potentialities of those dogs, and to let everything clear and why I wrote the book...
MST : I don't see the connection, if they'd be in London, wouldn't the dogs act the same way?
GA : Here the dogs seem to have failed, it's because of the heat in Algarve.
MST : What difference can they make by being here or not, at the same time as the dogs?
GA : What difference? They knew what was going to happen next, until that, they walked holding hands and the PJ gave them information every week.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why did Amaral think the dogs had failed? Was he implying they didn't find what they were meant to find?
I think the heat got to GA.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1312 on: July 19, 2019, 07:26:44 AM »
But no matter how many times the dogs alert at no time will the dog say it was Madeleine's cadaver.  At no time will the dogs  whisper the McCanns did it. At no time do the dogs agree on the time it happened.  All it points to that there was an unidentified cadaver in the room at sometime in the past and we don't know how it got in there.
There's no evidence there was ever a cadaver in 5a pm

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1313 on: July 19, 2019, 07:44:53 AM »
They are remarkable. Accuracy (as I stated earlier at 90+%). IMO, to suggest, in the McCann case, that both dogs were wrong eleven times between them... and that when they were wrong by some amazing coincidence this was always in the presence of articles directly related to one family would be an unbelievable suggestion...  "Ludicrous" would be a good description, IMO.
One word - Zampo.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1314 on: July 19, 2019, 08:07:18 AM »
"At trial, FBI Canine Program Manager Rex Stockham testified as an expert in forensic canine operation. Stockham testified about the process of training and testing victim recovery dogs. Stockham's protocol called for regular single-and double-blind testing of dogs throughout their working lives. Stockham's program had three full-time handlers in its program, including Martin Grime. Stockham testified that he had tested Morse and Keela, Grime's dogs, and that both dogs had accuracy ratings in the high 90 percent range. Stockham testified that dogs have been able to smell the odor of decomposition as soon as 2 hours after a victim's death, or years after a victim's burial.

Grime testified as an expert in the training and employment of cadaver dogs. According to Grime, he is a full-time contractor for the FBI. Grime worked with Morse, a dog “trained to search for and detect the odor of decomposing human remains,” and Keela, “trained to search for and locate specifically human blood.” Grime testified that there was no methodology to test the dogs' responses when there is no recoverable material, and that the odor of decomposition may transfer if a person touches a dead body and then touches something else.

According to Grime, on December 4, 2011, he took his dogs to an enclosed warehouse that contained 31 vehicles. Grime was told that Bianca was in one of the vehicles at the time of the carjacking, but was not told which vehicle was involved. Morse alerted Grime to the presence of the odor of decomposition in the back seat and trunk of a silver Grand Marquis. Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car. Grime did not know where the objects were located in the building, and the objects had been placed in a room filled with “all sorts of things.” Morse alerted Grime to the odor of decomposition in Bianca's car seat and a bag containing Bianca's blanket. Grime later took the dogs to Dungey's house. Morse alerted him to the odor of decomposition in a room that contained bunk beds and a closet without a door."

when grime did not know where the car seat was...it was wrapped in brown paper....morse did not alert. It was only after grime knew the seat had been wrapped...and a slit cut in...that the dog alerted

Offline barrier

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1315 on: July 19, 2019, 08:20:36 AM »
There's no evidence there was ever a cadaver in 5a pm

Thats why the case is at an impasse,imo.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1316 on: July 19, 2019, 08:47:38 AM »
did you hear what then judge said about the alerts

"Those dogs that were used to find baby Bianca were very instrumental," Evans said. "They were taken to a house on Montgomery (Avenue). Of 10 rooms in the house, they went straight to the bedroom.

the judge said...very instrumenatl...thats sounds significant to me

Of course it was significant, it helped to get Lane convicted of the murder of his daughter.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 08:51:10 AM by G-Unit »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1317 on: July 19, 2019, 08:54:41 AM »
Of course it was significant, it helped to get Lane convicted of the murder of his daughter.

So grime and an expert witness gave evidence which played a significant part in lanes conviction... Why then have you played silly games

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1318 on: July 19, 2019, 11:02:04 AM »
One word - Zampo.

Who has nothing to do with the McCann case.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1319 on: July 19, 2019, 11:09:42 AM »
Who has nothing to do with the McCann case.

I think that's, a matter of opinion... The reliability of alerts is.
I'm fairly sure Zampos handler believed in his dogs abilities