Who killed Bambi ?

[Caroline]

I dont know whether or not it was put to her at trial that she made x statement on y date and if so how much, if any, of the content was put to her for her to agree/disagree.  But lets assume counsel put all the content to her why would she disagree regardless of whether the content was accurate to the best of her belief if the police coerced her WS?

So now the police are coercing LR? And what have they got on her? Did they coerce Malcolm Waters too?

[Holly Goodhead]

Of course, we have to bear in mind that there are more guns in the USA and more who are gun competent. I'm capable of firing a previously loaded rifle at a given target but being able to manipulate it into a position from which it would kill me would be an entirely different proposition. Have you considered that Jeremy may have forced her to fire the shot intended to kill her and fired the second shot himself after the first had failed?

GSW trajectories sustained by SC were the only ones that went upwards.  Pathologist Prof Knight thought it would be quite extraordinary for a.n other to inflict.   

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-4-shawtesko.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiOrp75vp_fAhXvVBUIHRG_CJY4FBAWMAJ6BAgHEAE&usg=AOvVaw38j_2Wa6hLzdtwBkixXbYR

'At the 1986 trial Dr Vanezis expressed the view that the first (non-fatal) bullet would have largely incapacitated Sheila, which implied Sheila would have been unable to fire the second shot, further implying that Jeremy had fired both bullets.

Vanezis conveniently forgot his statement on the 30th September 1985, it which he wrote that Sheila would only have been ‘stunned’ after the first bullet was fired and may not have lost consciousness for some considerable time. It wasn’t the only thing Dr Vanezis would happen to forget.'

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At worst Vanezis is saying Sheila would be incapacitated from the first shot. Making Jeremy the killer.

At best Sheila was 'stunned' and stayed alive after the first shot.

Everyone agrees Sheila did not stand up after the first shot. Whether stunned, incapacitated (or both) she was certainly immobilised.

Jeremy shot an almost certainly incapacitated but 100% stunned/immobilised Sheila a second time.

Jeremy could have shot Sheila straight after the first shot or later during the massacre. Either way, an incapacitated or stunned Sheila would have put up no resistance to the second shot.

From the CoA doc:

45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

46. From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

How did SC remain seated in an upright position for both gsw's if JB inflicted them?  Bearing in mind they were not bang, bang.  There must have been a time lapse of some seconds as evidenced by the hemorrhaging. 

After the first gsw SC's was left physically able to walk around.  This clearly did not happen as evidenced by the lack of blood staining to the front of her nightdress but the pathological evidence shows her level of mobility was such it was possible for SC to inflict the second gsw.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is very doubtful Jeremy shot Sheila twice in quick succession. A one shot suicide frame is a million times better than a two shot suicide.

The two shots were very close to each other. He knew under the chin was a good location to get a one shot killing.

Sheila was certainly instantly stunned & immobilised after his first shot. Jeremy believed his first shot had killed her. So he left her to continue about his business at WHF.

He later realised a stunned & immobilised Sheila was still breathing. Perhaps when putting her into position & taking the silencer off.

He had to make a snap decision on whether to shoot her again & decided to shoot her in a nearly identical location.

The pathological evidence showed the two gsw's could have been fired within a few seconds to a few minutes.

Side of head into brain or into mouth and through roof would be more likely to deliver a fatal outcome after 1 gsw than neck.

[Holly Goodhead]

This is why Jeremy did not dispute the police when they told him Sheila could not have shot herself twice.

He knew his first shot had 'stunned', 'immobilised' & 'incapacitated' Sheila.

Although still breathing she would have been unconcious & not able to fire the second shot.

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Either the above or he did shoot Sheila twice in quick succeession & had no idea if the police were correct.

JB did dispute DS Jones' claims that SC did not kill herself and that either gsw was fatal.  Both claims at total odds with the pathological evidence. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1304

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1306

The above imo shows DS Jones was quite happy to mislead and venture outside his area of expertise.  This coupled with his heavy drinking on the job leads me to conclude he is totally unreliable,

[Myster]

Oh, here we go again with more character assassination. I think you should save that for JB!

[Holly Goodhead]

Frequently with a semi automatic weapon? From what I have read, the phenomenon is rare and generally occurs when the shootist misses essential organs. As we know, the first shot would eventually have killed Sheila and the fact that it's clear she didn't move under her own steam, the likelihood of her re positioning and shooting herself twice, is pretty far fetched.

Are you saying that Vanezis became cautious as  a matter of convenience?

I agree, SC was moved at the SOC, she was moved by Bamber as he looked for what he 'thought' would give the best impression on discovery.

Dr Vanezis covers the fact the weapon was a semi-auto and SC sustained 2 gsw's.  He concludes that his examination did not reveal anything to contradict the murder/suicide theory.

Dr Vanezis did not conclude SC shooting herself twice was "far-fetched".  He concluded it was a "high probablity".

The bottom line is Dr Vanezis was unable to conclude one way or the other murder or suicide.  Lay people refuse to accept the expert evidence and unfortunately in this case were allowed to run amok.

There's much evidence SC was moved at soc between police locating and photographing as per first respondent A/PS Woodcocks's WS stating SC's head was raised against the bedside cabinet which corroborates with expert evidence from forensic scientist Martyn Ismail stating SC's head was raised against the bedside cabinet following the second gsw.  This is at odds with soc images showing SC's head flat to the floor.  The fact lawyers have not picked up on this and worse still allowed it to be used against JB shows a poor defence and not a guilty JB.

[Holly Goodhead]

Oh, here we go again with more character assassination. I think you should save that for JB!

But JB was not acting in a professional capacity!

[Myster]

Oh, here we go again with more character assassination. I think you should save that for JB!

A person who was quite fond of misleading in his interviews peppered with "No comments", and irritating tooth-twanging.

[Myster]

But JB was not acting in a professional capacity!

He was professional enough with his Anschutz!

[Holly Goodhead]

So now the police are coercing LR? And what have they got on her? Did they coerce Malcolm Waters too?

Yes I said in an earlier post imo all those in JB's circle were coerced.  We can see from JB's police interviews, undertaken with a solicitor present, that DS Jones was happy to mislead ie telling JB SC was murdered and she could not have shot herself twice.  Imo he relayed these comments to JB's circle and the fact most, if not all, used recreational drugs was used as additional leverage to get them to cooperate. 

[Holly Goodhead]

He was professional enough with his Anschutz!

A marksman at Greshams meaning had JB been perp the soc would look very different with far fewer shots fired/gsw's. 

In the Bain case both suspects were familiar with firearms.  The murder weapon was the same calibre used at WHF.  In the Bain case we have a total of 5 victims with a total of 8 shots fired/8 gsw's.  At WHF we have a total of 5 victims with 25 or 26 shots fired and 25/26gsw's includes 2 graze wounds.  Of course those that believe JB guilty say he went for overkill to make it look amateurish and overkill.

[Holly Goodhead]

A person who was quite fond of misleading in his interviews peppered with "No comments", and irritating tooth-twanging.

But why would JB's attitude by any different when it is quite obvious DS Jones was misleading/lying to him and accusing him of annihilating his family.

Dr Vanezis said although he listened to DS Jones' concerns he offered nothing of evidential value.  We can hear from the 'Killing Mum and Dad' docu/drama that DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value. 

[APRIL]

A marksman at Greshams meaning had JB been perp the soc would look very different with far fewer shots fired/gsw's. 

In the Bain case both suspects were familiar with firearms.  The murder weapon was the same calibre used at WHF.  In the Bain case we have a total of 5 victims with a total of 8 shots fired/8 gsw's.  At WHF we have a total of 5 victims with 25 or 26 shots fired and 25/26gsw's includes 2 graze wounds.  Of course those that believe JB guilty say he went for overkill to make it look amateurish and overkill.

Not if he was trying to make it look as if it had been done by someone who wasn't gun competent, ie Sheila. It could even be said that he was showing just how skilled he was

[adam]

JB did dispute DS Jones' claims that SC did not kill herself and that either gsw was fatal.  Both claims at total odds with the pathological evidence. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1304

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1306

The above imo shows DS Jones was quite happy to mislead and venture outside his area of expertise.  This coupled with his heavy drinking on the job leads me to conclude he is totally unreliable,

He didn't dispute it. When told both shots would be fatal he said 'I can't comment'. As well as saying Nevill may have said 'She' on the phone 

Prior to that he said he thought Sheila killed herself.

Jeremy chose a good location for both shots into Sheila. It is agreed Sheila did not stand up after the first shot. She was 100% stunned & immobilised. If not unconcious she would be in extreme pain. Vanezis said she could also be incapacitated.

However Sheila was still breathing. When Jeremy later realised this he decided to fire the second shot, in exactly the same location. This shot killed her instantly.