What is 'science'

[G-Unit]

He was in a private room, with a steady stream of visitors.  I don't think they were patted down before being allowed access, nor was there a nurse on hand monitoring visits 24/7.   Believe me, these days from personal experience pretty much the only way to attract the attention of a nurse when you're lying in bed unable to get up IS to set fire to your own face.  Not that I ever went quite that far mind....

Studies in the US have placed medical errors as the third largest cause of deaths, outstripped only by heart disease and cancer. I have seen two family members in grave danger due to a misdiagnosis and a late diagnosis. The lesson I have learned is to stay away from medicine if I can and stay close to any relative who is hospitalised in order to make sure they're treated well. Our local hospital isn't 'failing' either. It's very good but no hospital is perfect and staff aren't perfect either.

[G-Unit]

Is any of this pertinent to personal choice?

I am shocked by the need to use this in defence of The McCanns.  I thought better of McCann Supporters.

It seems to me that the McCann's personal choices are to be applauded, but other people's aren't.

[G-Unit]

Has the penny finally dropped, or are you quoting Davel, in which case you might want to put the above statements in quotation marks.

They are all statements made by Davel.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Is any of this pertinent to personal choice?

I am shocked by the need to use this in defence of The McCanns.  I thought better of McCann Supporters.

In my opinion people can smoke til their hearts pack up and their lungs blacken, in private and not around me or my family.  I do however think that smoking around your own children a) sets a terrible example and b) poses health risks for them, so for that reason when people who do this slag off the McCanns for their "child neglect"  they really should cast out the beam from their own eye first, before claiming to put their children's interests above their own at every opportunity. 
On top of that, I think that people who deny the link between smoking and serious illnesses and conditions are self-deluding and able to persuade themselves of anything by denying the science and picking and choosing which bits of it they want to believe in. 

I don't know why you consider pointing any of this out as shocking behaviour on my part? 

[Vertigo Swirl]

They are all statements made by Davel.

Then they should be in quotation marks because it looks on first reading like you are making these statements.  IMO

[Vertigo Swirl]

Studies in the US have placed medical errors as the third largest cause of deaths, outstripped only by heart disease and cancer. I have seen two family members in grave danger due to a misdiagnosis and a late diagnosis. The lesson I have learned is to stay away from medicine if I can and stay close to any relative who is hospitalised in order to make sure they're treated well. Our local hospital isn't 'failing' either. It's very good but no hospital is perfect and staff aren't perfect either.

And yet you were all for Kate McCann rushing her twins to hospital immediately on the night of the 3rd.  In my experience health professionals above a certain pay grade do a fantastic job on the whole, but when it comes down to daily care and monitoring on wards, well that's certainly a different matter, and the things I witnessed in my two week stay will live me forever, and not in a good way.

[G-Unit]

And yet you were all for Kate McCann rushing her twins to hospital immediately on the night of the 3rd.  In my experience health professionals above a certain pay grade do a fantastic job on the whole, but when it comes down to daily care and monitoring on wards, well that's certainly a different matter, and the things I witnessed in my two week stay will live me forever, and not in a good way.

Despite clear tummy pain and vomiting of faeces pediatricians diagnosed an Intussusception of the bowel as possible concussion. A casualty registrar failed to diagnose a burst appendix and sepsis. I think they're quite well paid.

[Mr Gray]

Which 'science' is it that you constantly refer to then?

Without proper scientific tests its erroneous to claim the alerts have any reliability...they simply have not been properly tested.

it's important to point out the dogs, are not scientifically tested

the alerts have never been scientifically tested

that eddie was independently scientifically tested is one example of an untrue statement

I'm referring to scientific method... Which is common to all sciences

[Mr Gray]

Despite clear tummy pain and vomiting of faeces pediatricians diagnosed an Intussusception of the bowel as possible concussion. A casualty registrar failed to diagnose a burst appendix and sepsis. I think they're quite well paid.

How long had the registrar been on duty for... My son has been known to work 24 hrs non stop....no wonder there are so many mistakes... It isn't the doctors fault... It's the system they are forced to work under

[Vertigo Swirl]

Despite clear tummy pain and vomiting of faeces pediatricians diagnosed an Intussusception of the bowel as possible concussion. A casualty registrar failed to diagnose a burst appendix and sepsis. I think they're quite well paid.

That was your unfortunate experience, mine was more positive, with a brilliant surgeon and physios.  Where does that leave us? 

[Eleanor]

Dear God.  This is all getting more awful.  I don't understand what any of you are talking about any more.  No one has to come to my house.  In fact, please don't.

This has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann or anyone's thoughts on the subject.

I remain a McCann Supporter by virtue of Logistics.  Prove me wrong on that one, but you can't.

I don't care what sort of people The McCanns are, but I am certain sure that they are better parents than I ever was.  Should that have been necessary, of course.  Which it probably wasn't.

[Mr Gray]

It seems to me that the McCann's personal choices are to be applauded, but other people's aren't.

Cite for this... It appears both you and Eleanor are mixed up.... Perhaps you both need a cigarette


I've never seen any poster applaud the McCann's decision to leave the children... You again seem to be making things up

[Mr Gray]

Studies in the US have placed medical errors as the third largest cause of deaths, outstripped only by heart disease and cancer. I have seen two family members in grave danger due to a misdiagnosis and a late diagnosis. The lesson I have learned is to stay away from medicine if I can and stay close to any relative who is hospitalised in order to make sure they're treated well. Our local hospital isn't 'failing' either. It's very good but no hospital is perfect and staff aren't perfect either.

That's quite  interesting.... You are clearly anti doctors.... Might explain your views on this case

Doctors make lots of mistakes.... In hospitals often due to being asked to work ridiculous hours... What's the solution

[Alice Purjorick]

That's quite  interesting.... You are clearly anti doctors.... Might explain your views on this case

Doctors make lots of mistakes.... In hospitals often due to being asked to work ridiculous hours... What's the solution

Presumably resultant from a voluntary opting out of the 48 hour Working Time Directive.

[Mr Gray]

Presumably resultant from a voluntary opting out of the 48 hour Working Time Directive.

Thers no voluntary about it