The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm

[Rachel Granada]

There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!

John, you have summed it up perfectly.

[peter claridge]

There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!

It's obviously way past your bedtime.

[Rachel Granada]

There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!

It's obviously way past your bedtime.

No need at all for this sarcastic rebute to John's perfectly reasonable and sensible contribution to the debate.

[puglove]

There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!

It's obviously way past your bedtime.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu7vySQbgXI


 

[Rachel Granada]

There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!

It's obviously way past your bedtime.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu7vySQbgXI


 

Good call, shona.  John is running a super forum here IMO... there is room for intelligent and respectful debate here about many cases.

[icabodcrane]

Getting back to the substance of the thread title

How  are the independent witness statements that place Gerry McCann  away  from the tapas bar at 10pm to be viewed ?

Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira  for instance    (  the waiter who served the tapas  group their meals that night )

Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry

According to this independent witness,  then,  it was indeed possible for Gerry McCann to have been crossing paths  with the Smith family at  22.05   

[ferryman]

Getting back to the substance of the thread title

How  are the independent witness statements that place Gerry McCann  away  from the tapas bar at 10pm to be viewed ?

Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira  for instance    (  the waiter who served the tapas  group their meals that night )

Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry

According to this independent witness,  then,  it was indeed possible for Gerry McCann to have been crossing paths  with the Smith family at  22.05   

A few minutes

Perhaps, 15?

 Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.

Aofe Smith

[icabodcrane]

Getting back to the substance of the thread title

How  are the independent witness statements that place Gerry McCann  away  from the tapas bar at 10pm to be viewed ?

Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira  for instance    (  the waiter who served the tapas  group their meals that night )

Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry

According to this independent witness,  then,  it was indeed possible for Gerry McCann to have been crossing paths  with the Smith family at  22.05   

A few minutes

Perhaps, 15?

 Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.

Aofe Smith

Do I think that this witness would have said  'a few minutes'  if he had meant a quarter of an hour  ?  ...  no, I don't

I did not intend to split hairs about the semantics of independent witness statements though  ...  merely to point out that  'cherry picking'  them to suit a particular theory does not make for a sound proposition

[Rachel Granada]

A few minutes

Perhaps, 15?

 Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.

Aofe Smith

Do I think that this witness would have said  'a few minutes'  if he had meant a quarter of an hour  ?  ...  no, I don't

I did not intend to split hairs about the semantics of independent witness statements though  ...  merely to point out that  'cherry picking'  them to suit a particular theory does not make for a sound proposition

Split hairs all you want, icabod. The fact remains that they weren't even arrested. 

[AnneGuedes]

It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Can we clarify that please Anna

Are you saying that

1) Everyone else had stopped eating?  or

2) That there was nobody at the Mccann table?  or

3) that there were no other diners on other tables?

Not sure which you mean.

Well, Sadie, it seems no guest except for the TP9 was having dinner  when Kate came back from her check. The "rasta" couple was scheduled at 9, had they left at 10 ? There's no witness statement of this couple in the PJ files. An Irwing couple, about whom the TP9 were questioned but in vain, scheduled at 8:30. No statement as well.

[icabodcrane]

But you are so wrong, the very same waiter Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira saw Madeleines parents both arrive for dinner at 8.45pm and this corroborates Gerry himself when he stated that he and Kate left their apartment at 8.35pm.

Ricardo recalls that only one of the Tapas 9 had his meal held back and this is something that a waiter never gets wrong.  That person was Russell O'Brien who was on bedroom duty looking after his ill daughter until relieved by partner Jane tanner at 9.40.  Ricardo confirms his return to the table at 9.45pm.  Obviously the waiter was wanting away home and was nigh too pleased at being delayed.

Now lets see, 9 meals delivered to a table for 9 people and the only individuals who were absent were absent for a matter of minutes at a time doing regular child checks or chatting with yet more independent witnesses unless of course the conspiracists want to label Jez as another collaborator in some grand plan?

Another independent witness comes up trumps!   

John,  you can attribute any motives you wish for  this indepenedent witness   making the statement to the police that he did ...  the fact remains that he made it

The time that he saw the McCanns  arrive  matters not a jot  (  I don't know why you mentioned it )

This independent witness looked at the table a few minutes after 9.45pm,  and saw it empty   ...  allowing for the possibilility that Gerry McCann crossed paths with the Smith family   at 10.05 pm

You accept that  ...  don't you  ?

[Carana]

It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Can we clarify that please Anna

Are you saying that

1) Everyone else had stopped eating?  or

2) That there was nobody at the Mccann table?  or

3) that there were no other diners on other tables?

Not sure which you mean.

Well, Sadie, it seems no guest except for the TP9 was having dinner  when Kate came back from her check. The "rasta" couple was scheduled at 9, had they left at 10 ? There's no witness statement of this couple in the PJ files. An Irwing couple, about whom the TP9 were questioned but in vain, scheduled at 8:30. No statement as well.

It's not clear to me whether they were there or not. From the answers, it would seem that they were asked if the Irwins had joined their group at the table.

----- Questioned, she said that on Thursday, 03/05/2007, there was no body sitting at the table, strange to the group, and she does not know anyone with the name "IRWIN."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm



On these holidays, she never met nor dined (along with the rest of the group) with any family or person having the surname "Irwin".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm


----- Asked, he relates that on Thursday, 3 May 2007, there was nobody outside the group seated at the table, nor does he know any person with the name IRWIN.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm


I haven't checked the waiters' statements on this point yet.

[AnneGuedes]

It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Can we clarify that please Anna

Are you saying that

1) Everyone else had stopped eating?  or

2) That there was nobody at the Mccann table?  or

3) that there were no other diners on other tables?

Not sure which you mean.

Well, Sadie, it seems no guest except for the TP9 was having dinner  when Kate came back from her check. The "rasta" couple was scheduled at 9, had they left at 10 ? There's no witness statement of this couple in the PJ files. An Irwing couple, about whom the TP9 were questioned but in vain, scheduled at 8:30. No statement as well.

It's not clear to me whether they were there or not. From the answers, it would seem that they were asked if the Irwins had joined their group at the table.

----- Questioned, she said that on Thursday, 03/05/2007, there was no body sitting at the table, strange to the group, and she does not know anyone with the name "IRWIN."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm



On these holidays, she never met nor dined (along with the rest of the group) with any family or person having the surname "Irwin".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm


----- Asked, he relates that on Thursday, 3 May 2007, there was nobody outside the group seated at the table, nor does he know any person with the name IRWIN.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm


I haven't checked the waiters' statements on this point yet.

The PJ insisted with those Irwing because they seem to be part of the TP on the register book for that night (whereas the others are clearly separated).
I checked some statements and it seems everybody else had gone and the TP were alone in the restaurant.

[John]

Getting back to the substance of the thread title

How  are the independent witness statements that place Gerry McCann  away  from the tapas bar at 10pm to be viewed ?

Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira  for instance    (  the waiter who served the tapas  group their meals that night )

Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry

According to this independent witness,  then,  it was indeed possible for Gerry McCann to have been crossing paths  with the Smith family at  22.05   

But you are so wrong, the very same waiter Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira saw Madeleines parents both arrive for dinner at 8.45pm and this corroborates Gerry himself when he stated that he and Kate left their apartment at 8.35pm.  He confirmed that the entire group of 9 sat down to dinner.

Ricardo recalls that only one of the Tapas 9 had his meal held back and this is something that a waiter never gets wrong.  Ricardo confirmed in a later statement that the person was Russell O'Brien who was away from the table for quite some time.  As it happens, Russell was on bedroom duty looking after his ill daughter until relieved by partner Jane tanner at 9.40.  Ricardo confirms his return to the table at 9.45pm.  Obviously the waiter was wanting to get home and was not too pleased at being delayed.

Now lets see, 9 meals delivered to a table for 9 people and the only individuals who were absent were absent for a matter of minutes at a time doing regular child checks.

Another independent witness comes up trumps.   


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICARDO-A-D-L-OLIVEIRA.htm

[sadie]

It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Can we clarify that please Anna

Are you saying that

1) Everyone else had stopped eating?  or

2) That there was nobody at the Mccann table?  or

3) that there were no other diners on other tables?

Not sure which you mean.

Well, Sadie, it seems no guest except for the TP9 was having dinner  when Kate came back from her check. The "rasta" couple was scheduled at 9, had they left at 10 ? There's no witness statement of this couple in the PJ files. An Irwing couple, about whom the TP9 were questioned but in vain, scheduled at 8:30. No statement as well.

Thank you Ann for coming back