Author Topic: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm  (Read 189657 times)

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Offline peter claridge

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2013, 09:34:47 PM »

Martha, thanks for the quote. I am sorry I did not express myself well. I meant a timeline between 10.00 and 11.00, when events, according to C Edwards, were very confusing. I have now corrected my post.


There was no confusion, the statements are very clear as to the events which occurred in and around the Ocean Club resort on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.  It must be pointed out that it serves the purposes of some posters to invent confusion so as to blur their own agendas.

Undoubtedly, many posters have worked this out for themselves.   ?>)()<

I believe there was some confusion but from going through the many statements by the tapas 9 and the many independent witnesses a vein of truth can be established.  I agree with C Edwards to some extent that some of the timings given in several statements are not possible but we don't know why this is.  Can they be a simple error, a wrongful translation or are the witnesses simply confused as many seemed to be.

What isn't in any doubt however is that Gerry McCann was at the dinner table at the tapas bar at around 10pm (give or take a few minutes) when Kate came running towards him shouting that Madeleine was gone.  There is no disputing this event an the time it occurred.

Having gone through nearly 100 statements I am concerned that there would appear to statements missing.  I am also very aware that the statements given by the staff who worked in the tapas bar are lacking in substance so the question must be asked as to why did the Portuguese police do such a bad job in interviewing these individuals?
Gerry disagrees, he has the alarm closer to 10.15 which gives him time to have returned to the Tapas bar after crossing paths with the Smith family -  Half and hour later, without anything to remark, it being 22h03, he again alerted KATE that it was time to check the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, having entered through the back door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her taking so long, and, at the moment the deponent prepared to get up and to check why she was taking so long, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the entire house.
Seeing as the alarm was raised because of the Smith sighting, it's hardly rocket science that he was at the table when said alarm was raised!
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap10

Offline Gildas

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2013, 09:51:54 PM »

Martha, thanks for the quote. I am sorry I did not express myself well. I meant a timeline between 10.00 and 11.00, when events, according to C Edwards, were very confusing. I have now corrected my post.


There was no confusion, the statements are very clear as to the events which occurred in and around the Ocean Club resort on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.  It must be pointed out that it serves the purposes of some posters to invent confusion so as to blur their own agendas.

Undoubtedly, many posters have worked this out for themselves.   ?>)()<

It's funny if that's aimed at me as I was booted off Havern's (very Anti) forum for having an agenda to disrupt and cause confusion apparently.  I wasn't anti enough, it would appear.  8)><(

Mr Edwards, I remember your posting on the Jill Havern site, and was sorry to see you banned. I also remember your posting on the Missing Madeleine site, and coming very close to being banned there, as well. Judging from your posts on those sites, and your posts on this site, I believe you are neither "Anti" nor "Pro".



T

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »

Martha, thanks for the quote. I am sorry I did not express myself well. I meant a timeline between 10.00 and 11.00, when events, according to C Edwards, were very confusing. I have now corrected my post.


There was no confusion, the statements are very clear as to the events which occurred in and around the Ocean Club resort on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.  It must be pointed out that it serves the purposes of some posters to invent confusion so as to blur their own agendas.

Undoubtedly, many posters have worked this out for themselves.   ?>)()<

It's funny if that's aimed at me as I was booted off Havern's (very Anti) forum for having an agenda to disrupt and cause confusion apparently.  I wasn't anti enough, it would appear.  8)><(

Mr Edwards, I remember your posting on the Jill Havern site, and was sorry to see you banned. I also remember your posting on the Missing Madeleine site, and coming very close to being banned there, as well. Judging from your posts on those sites, and your posts on this site, I believe you are neither "Anti" nor "Pro".
What a compliment !

C.Edwards

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2013, 11:04:52 PM »
Gerry disagrees, he has the alarm closer to 10.15 which gives him time to have returned to the Tapas bar after crossing paths with the Smith family -  Half and hour later, without anything to remark, it being 22h03, he again alerted KATE that it was time to check the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, having entered through the back door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her taking so long, and, at the moment the deponent prepared to get up and to check why she was taking so long, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the entire house.
Seeing as the alarm was raised because of the Smith sighting, it's hardly rocket science that he was at the table when said alarm was raised!
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap10

There's some interesting stuff on timings created by Charlotte Pennington's statements too.

Firstly from her witness statement:

Quote
The witness states that she participated in the searches, together with her colleague—Amy, searching various areas of the Ocean Club establishment. She also states that she searched the patio area of the residence where Madeleine stayed with her parents and siblings, and during which, she encountered many individuals inside the apartment but was not able to tell if they were complex employees or friends of the couple. She did not enter the residence in question;

Then (admittedly it's only a press report, but it's a direct quote and doesn't ever appear to have been retracted, so who knows...)
Quote
yesterday she told the Daily Mail: "I was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone.

So a bit of an about-turn there...


She goes on:
Quote
Just before 10pm the last mother arrived to collect her child from the creche and mentioned that she had just bumped into a man, who had been shouting a name.
 
"She didn't get the name, but she said it sounded something like 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie'. We automatically went into lost-child procedure. In these situations, the first thing we do is investigate the scene.
 
"We knew that one of the other nanny's charges was called Maddie. We told the head of department what had happened and she took us straight to the apartment.
 
"There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.

So "just before 10" is one interesting point and another is "There were no children in the room".  Hang on though... when the GNR arrived the twins were in the room, sound asleep and causing the GNR officers to wonder why they weren't waking up in all the commotion...  where were the twins when Charlotte Pennington was in there? 

If it was "just before 10" then if you  take Gerry's timings of "10:03" (you can't, of course, as no timings can be seen as being that accurate unless there's a mobile phone call or text to "pin" a time as with John Hill and Emma Louis Knight) then that's another discrepancy.  For Gerry to be searaching, Kate had to have walked the couple of minutes back to the apartment, found a missing madeleine, searched around thoroughly (as she said she did) then rushed back to the bar, collected Gerry, he had to have looked around before rushing out...  you can see that this is all still very, very muddled.  It's a real shame there was no flipping cctv working in the area.

Some interesting reading re: Ms. Pennington (and hysterical reporting) on the mccannfiles site with reproductions of some press stories. All of which must, of course, be taken with a large pinch of salt: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html  It's things like the huge discrepancies in Charlotte Pennington's statements (nicely taken apart on the McCannfiles link above) that make those of us that doubt, doubt so much.  Too many glaring errors.  You can't argue that she forgot if she was in the apartment or not!


Offline Luz

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2013, 11:18:47 PM »
not sgnificant
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 11:32:26 PM by Luz »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2013, 11:33:27 PM »
The seemingly giddy Charlotte Pennington might have forgotten to set her watch on GMT on 25th March 2007.

Offline Luz

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2013, 01:40:42 AM »

Martha, thanks for the quote. I am sorry I did not express myself well. I meant a timeline between 10.00 and 11.00, when events, according to C Edwards, were very confusing. I have now corrected my post.


There was no confusion, the statements are very clear as to the events which occurred in and around the Ocean Club resort on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.  It must be pointed out that it serves the purposes of some posters to invent confusion so as to blur their own agendas.

Undoubtedly, many posters have worked this out for themselves.   ?>)()<

Excuse me Mr. Administrator, which timeline are you referring to?
The ones scribbled on the children's book covers, just prior to the arrival of the police; the ones they gave on their testimonies to the PJ or the ones they gave (or sent other people to deliver) to the press????

If the statements are clear to you, that's fantastic, because to the police they weren't, and that's why a RECONSTRUCTION WAS/IS NEEDED.

Offline John

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2013, 03:07:50 AM »

Gerry disagrees, he has the alarm closer to 10.15 which gives him time to have returned to the Tapas bar after crossing paths with the Smith family -  Half and hour later, without anything to remark, it being 22h03, he again alerted KATE that it was time to check the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, having entered through the back door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her taking so long, and, at the moment the deponent prepared to get up and to check why she was taking so long, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the entire house.
Seeing as the alarm was raised because of the Smith sighting, it's hardly rocket science that he was at the table when said alarm was raised!
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap10


In order to remain completely impartial at this time I have purposely not read any of the statements by the Tapas 9, not a single one!

Many of the posters who dispute the Tapas 9 version of events insist that it is the independent witnesses who speak the truth and I would normally agree with that but I have found that many of the Portuguese witnesses have been slow at coming forward and could have assisted the inquiry to a greater extent.  Given what I know of these countries however, I am not in the least surprised. The police tend to run the show in Portugal and Spain so anyone wanting to remain there and in employment tends to keep their views and a lot of what they know to them-self.

That said however, I have found the witness statements by the many British nationals who worked at the resort to be very revealing and indeed informative.


Now to claridge's post above.

Gerry's time of 10.15 is impossible by the independent witness evidence.  I personally don't know how he came by this time and as I have not read any of his statements I won't comment further at this time.

The independent evidence is very clear, Gerry was at the table when the Smiths saw their man carrying a child 400 metres away.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 03:09:52 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2013, 03:24:59 AM »
There will always be discrepancies with timings and other factors and especially so if you read what has been written by the Press.  Anyone who has ever been the subject of Press reporting will know that they print sensationalism most of the time, the sort of stuff which sells newspapers is always what they are after and not necessarily what they have been told or dare I say it, THE TRUTH! 

A very big pinch of salt please when quoting anything from a newspaper.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2013, 10:03:21 AM »

 I have found that many of the Portuguese witnesses have been slow at coming forward and could have assisted the inquiry to a greater extent.  Given what I know of these countries however, I am not in the least surprised. The police tend to run the show in Portugal and Spain so anyone wanting to remain there and in employment tends to keep their views and a lot of what they know to them-self.

Portugal is quite different from Spain, may be for being an atlantic country. People are generally reluctant to testify, but in this particular case, the disappearance of a little girl, the people felt extremely concerned. Those who kept silent most probably didn't know nothing that could help.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2013, 10:13:06 AM »

Now to claridge's post above.

Gerry's time of 10.15 is impossible by the independent witness evidence.  I personally don't know how he came by this time and as I have not read any of his statements I won't comment further at this time.

The independent evidence is very clear, Gerry was at the table when the Smiths saw their man carrying a child 400 metres away.
Russell, "relieved by Jane" was back around 21:40. He had only half eaten his steak when Kate came running.
Everybody wishes Gerry was at the table when the Smiths met the carrier, but there's no evidence. He likely was at the table when Kate came back, though only the Paynes suggest it directly, but when was that for sure ?

Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2013, 10:49:19 AM »

Now to claridge's post above.

Gerry's time of 10.15 is impossible by the independent witness evidence.  I personally don't know how he came by this time and as I have not read any of his statements I won't comment further at this time.

The independent evidence is very clear, Gerry was at the table when the Smiths saw their man carrying a child 400 metres away.
Russell, "relieved by Jane" was back around 21:40. He had only half eaten his steak when Kate came running.
Everybody wishes Gerry was at the table when the Smiths met the carrier, but there's no evidence. He likely was at the table when Kate came back, though only the Paynes suggest it directly, but when was that for sure ?

Were the other diners ever questioned?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2013, 10:54:41 AM »
It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Offline sadie

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2013, 10:13:57 PM »
It seems there was no one else having dinner when Kate came back.

Can we clarify that please Anna

Are you saying that

1) Everyone else had stopped eating?  or

2) That there was nobody at the Mccann table?  or

3) that there were no other diners on other tables?

Not sure which you mean.

Offline John

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2013, 10:28:06 PM »
There appears to be a bout of codolgy going about in many of the discussions as far as I can see.  Anyone who believes  that Gerry McCann got up from his dinner to carry a corpse around Praia Da Luz is frankly missing something in their lives.  How absolutely stupid does that whole proposition sound?  Would you do it?

Lets bring some reality to this case folks and stop posting bullshit.  If Gerry had for some reason wanted to move his daughter following some sort of accidental death don't you think he would have at least waited until everyone was in bed.

Lets have some common sense PLEASE!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.