The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm

[Redblossom]

So still not a single reference or link to any independent witness statement...hmm

[Mr Gray]

So still not a single reference or link to any independent witness statement...hmm

No independent witness would make such a voluntaqry statement....so ...it appears none of the staff were asked...have you checked their statements

[icabodcrane]

So still not a single reference or link to any independent witness statement...hmm

There isn't one Red   ...  not a single one

It would be good if we could finally put this one to bed   

No -one  ...  no-one  ...  apart from the McCanns chums, has ever said they were sure Gerry was in Tapas bar at 10pm

This claim really should have been  relegated to the  'myth'  forum by now

[Montclair]

No independent witness would make such a voluntaqry statement....so ...it appears none of the staff were asked...have you checked their statements

According to the archiving report the prosecutor stated that the friends confirmed Gerry's presence at the Tapas bar but the other witnesses were unable to deny that he was there. Meaning that the other witnesses could not say one way or another. I believe that we can assume then that they had been interviewed

[C.Edwards]

There isn't one Red   ...  not a single one

It would be good if we could finally put this one to bed   

No -one  ...  no-one  ...  apart from the McCanns chums, has ever said they were sure Gerry was in Tapas bar at 10pm

This claim really should have been  relegated to the  'myth'  forum by now

It's absolutely infuriating that there's just no way to pin down any times on this. Even if miraculously some way of pinning Gerry to the Tapas bar at 10pm came about, then this still doesn't necessarily prove anything conclusively as the other timings are still fluid/subject to user inaccuracy!  If the Smith sighting was actually 9:45 for example, or 10:15 or, as may well be the case, wasn't even Gerry anyway, it's all kind of worthless speculation.

The few independent witness statements at the time just don't seem to add up anyway and some (the receptionists for one) flat out contradict known facts (i.e. the time of the first call to the police).

Just one or two cctv cameras on hotel front doors that just happened to catch someone walking by would have settled this all once and for all with any luck.

Ah. Looks like a couple of people have been muted.  It may be a bit quieter around here for a bit!

[AnneGuedes]

It's absolutely infuriating that there's just no way to pin down any times on this. Even if miraculously some way of pinning Gerry to the Tapas bar at 10pm came about, then this still doesn't necessarily prove anything conclusively as the other timings are still fluid/subject to user inaccuracy!  If the Smith sighting was actually 9:45 for example, or 10:15 or, as may well be the case, wasn't even Gerry anyway, it's all kind of worthless speculation.

After 5 minutes or so, Mrs Webster who wondered what was happening, left the table and went to the 5A. She says Mr McCann wasn't there, where was he ?

[C.Edwards]

After 5 minutes or so, Mrs Webster who wondered what was happening, left the table and went to the 5A. She says Mr McCann wasn't there, where was he ?

a) Out searching for Madeleine (around the pool area where a waiter said he saw him?)
b) In the toilet
c) At reception (I still think there is some confusion about who went when)
d) Doing something else (unspecified)

[AnneGuedes]

Dianne Webster's statement is good enough for me,  she had no reason what so ever to lie to the police.

A waiter saw Gerry looking for Madeleine not long after 10 ' clock too,  he would have to have hidden Madeleine pretty quickly to have got back to the Tapas Bar to be seen by the waiter.    How on earth could he have hidden Madeleine where no one could find her in that short time and get back to be seen looking for Madeleine?

Salcedas thought it was Mr McCann, but Ricardo said Mr Payne and Mr Oldfield were searching by the pool. Mrs Webster, who was yet at the table, didn't say she saw Mr McCann.

[AnneGuedes]

a) Out searching for Madeleine (around the pool area where a waiter said he saw him?)
b) In the toilet
c) At reception (I still think there is some confusion about who went when)
d) Doing something else (unspecified)

After waiting 5 minutes at the Tapas table, not seing Mr McCann by the pool, she went to the flat where Mrs McCann was with the twins. She tried to lift the shutters from the outside (apparently a mania), which didn't prevent her to criticize the preservation of the crime scene by the police.. and stayed there 10 minutes. Then she went back to the Tapas, picked up items and went again to the flat where she saw, this time, Mr McCann.

[Benice]

IMO If Gerry was off disposing of his daughter's body during dinner, then surely a vital part of  ''the cover plan'' to give him an alibi, would be to make sure he was back at the table - and to ensure that he was noticed by independent witnesses BEFORE Kate raised the alarm?   

Also until he actually returned they could have no way of knowing that all had gone to plan - and so would not know whether it was safe for Kate to raise the alarm or not in his absence.    Anything could have gone wrong. 

[Victoria]

IMO If Gerry was off disposing of his daughter's body during dinner, then surely a vital part of  ''the cover plan'' to give him an alibi, would be to make sure he was back at the table - and to ensure that he was noticed by independent witnesses BEFORE Kate raised the alarm?   

Also until he actually returned they could have no way of knowing that all had gone to plan - and so would not know whether it was safe for Kate to raise the alarm or not in his absence.    Anything could have gone wrong.

Well, exactly. The idea that Gerry was carrying his daughter's body down to the beach at the same time that Kate was raising the alarm is ridiculous. If that was the way things happened then the first thing everyone at the table would have said when Kate said her daughter was missing would be - sure she's not with Gerry?

[C.Edwards]

Well, exactly. The idea that Gerry was carrying his daughter's body down to the beach at the same time that Kate was raising the alarm is ridiculous. If that was the way things happened then the first thing everyone at the table would have said when Kate said her daughter was missing would be - sure she's not with Gerry?

Honestly sometimes I wonder if it's worth typing anything... how do you know that the timings given are accurate?  There's nothing. Nothing at all, that says this didn't happen at 9:40pm or 10:10pm or 9:55pm. All of the sightings, all of the witness statements and all of the timings are open to question. Just look at the "compiled timeline" at this link: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm and see the huge number of discrepancies between all the witnesses. It's chaos.  How can you even begin to be certain about any of the timings given?

The one(s) that stand out for me below are MARIA MANUELA MARTINS DA SILVA (M.M.M.d.S.) who gave the time as 21:58 after checking her mobile phone (which may or may not have been accurate, who knows!?) and saw nothing going on around 5A so presumably the alarm had yet to be raised? And Emma Louise Knight (ELK) who refers to "22:17" and probably got that from her mobile phone log - again, who knows if her phone time was accurate though. The rest all seem to be more "approximate".

[jassi]

IMO If Gerry was off disposing of his daughter's body during dinner, then surely a vital part of  ''the cover plan'' to give him an alibi, would be to make sure he was back at the table - and to ensure that he was noticed by independent witnesses BEFORE Kate raised the alarm?   

Also until he actually returned they could have no way of knowing that all had gone to plan - and so would not know whether it was safe for Kate to raise the alarm or not in his absence.    Anything could have gone wrong.

While I agree with what you are saying,  what if the plans were running late  because of the inopportune appearance of Wilkins  and the raising of  the alarm couldn't be put off any longer?

It has been suggested that the alarm was raised earlier ( 9.30 ish), so that by 10, Gerry could be out 'searching', rather than sitting at the table.
Another possibility is that a false sighting was being staged to support the abduction senario.

All of the above is purely hypothetical and in no way implies that it is what happened.

[Benice]

While I agree with what you are saying,  what if the plans were running late  because of the inopportune appearance of Wilkins  and the raising of  the alarm couldn't be put off any longer?

It has been suggested that the alarm was raised earlier ( 9.30 ish), so that by 10, Gerry could be out 'searching', rather than sitting at the table.
Another possibility is that a false sighting was being staged to support the abduction senario.

All of the above is purely hypothetical and in no way implies that it is what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by ''plans running late' Jassi - what  drastic  difference could a 5 min conversation with JW make to anything.

I think it's highly unlikely that the alarm was raised at 9.30 - as that means there would not have been time for all the courses of the meal to be served and eaten as they were.    They didn't order until 9ish.

IMO the most important part of a plan to dispose of a childs body that night would be to make sure the person who did it had a rock solid alibi.    And yet apparently according to some - there is no independent evidence that he was even with the others when the alarm was raised.

I simply do not believe that the alarm would be raised while Gerry was still out in PdL - with no-one knowing where he was - or if something had gone horribly wrong.    That makes no sense at all to me.

Must dash now.

[jassi]

5 minutes could make all the difference between being present or absent by a particular time.
I'm not over-supportive of a 9 pm alarm, merely that time has been mentioned.

None of it makes sense, either to me or to countless millions.