Is it any wonder that initial investigators arrived at the conclusions they did?

[Brietta]

No I am not deflecting.  I've given a few examples of MoJ's from across the globe: Italy, Oz, NZ and UK. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases

I don't understand the constant PJ bashing. 

UK schoolgirl Caroline Dickinson was raped and murdered in her bed during a school trip to France.  The perp was eventually apprehended by US law enforcement some 5 years later.

An alert officer recognised him from a public appeal in a French newspaper and had him checked out ... albeit five years after the event.

What is the relevance to Madeleine's initial investigators ?

[Mr Gray]

But at least it didn't result in a wrongful conviction!  Others have suffered far worse fates than the McCanns.

No it didn't but again it's no reason to try and excuse it

[Mr Gray]

The bashing began almost immediately, instigated by the McCanns, their friends and family. It was repeated by the media and those who supported the McCanns ad infinitum. In my opinion it was employed because some people think attacking is the best form of defence.

Using it, of course, leads some to see it as a defensive ploy, rather than a sincere criticism. When I recieve personal attacks on forums I see it as a sign that the people doing it are trying to discredit me in hopes of discrediting what I say. I assume that's because they have no sensible answers to what I said.

The criticism arise because  it was justified. .

[Brietta]

The bashing began almost immediately, instigated by the McCanns, their friends and family. It was repeated by the media and those who supported the McCanns ad infinitum. In my opinion it was employed because some people think attacking is the best form of defence.

Using it, of course, leads some to see it as a defensive ploy, rather than a sincere criticism. When I recieve personal attacks on forums I see it as a sign that the people doing it are trying to discredit me in hopes of discrediting what I say. I assume that's because they have no sensible answers to what I said.

JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA
Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
Information started circulating from sources connected to the Portuguese police that the story was full of holes from the side of the McCanns and their friends. Indeed within two days of Madeleine disappearing, this crime correspondent was filing this piece in the Portuguese Daily: Diario of the Noticias: "Headline: a badly told story." We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped. To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm


It would have been good manners and perhaps even showed a little much needed professionalism on the part of the initial investigators by adhering to the secrecy laws, to have given themselves appropriate time to investigate before setting the tone of the investigation from the word go.

[G-Unit]

The criticism arise because  it was justified. .

That's a matter of opinion.

[Mr Gray]

That's a matter of opinion.

Thats a matter if opinion

[Holly Goodhead]

An alert officer recognised him from a public appeal in a French newspaper and had him checked out ... albeit five years after the event.

What is the relevance to Madeleine's initial investigators ?

He was apprehended by US law enforcement not French. 

[G-Unit]

JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA
Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
Information started circulating from sources connected to the Portuguese police that the story was full of holes from the side of the McCanns and their friends. Indeed within two days of Madeleine disappearing, this crime correspondent was filing this piece in the Portuguese Daily: Diario of the Noticias: "Headline: a badly told story." We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped. To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

CARLOS ANJOS
Association of Police Investigators
We have uncooperative witnesses who don't collaborate. The McCaans and the friends, the people who were there who clearly aren't collaborating with the investigation.

PEDRO TADEU
Editor, 24 Horas'
They are criticised for having displayed a cold and calculating attitude throughout this process. You can see already after the kidnapping Kate McCann appeared on a veranda in front of the journalists crying purposefully.

MAY 8th
[Veranda picture]

And we interpreted this as a performance for the media, and this made us feel some sort of discomfort.

August 9th
KATE: And as Gerry's just said, even last week when we met with the police they said: "We are looking for a living child" and they've said that a lot so...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

August 8th (the previous day when Neves and Encarnacao interviewed them)
Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response. [madeleine]

[/quote]

It would have been good manners and perhaps even showed a little much needed professionalism on the part of the initial investigators by adhering to the secrecy laws, to have given themselves appropriate time to investigate before setting the tone of the investigation from the word go.
[/quote]

[sadie]

He tells us he is a clever dude.

He is a clever dde

Would make a hell of a good barrister imo



You are a clever dude too.  Pity you two are unable to work together.

[pathfinder73]

So she said it was closed... Not that it was never open.... So no cite

I gave you a cite. Dianne Webster's statement.

Dianne Webster got to the apartment 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. She did not see an open window and said it would have been closed (see her 11 May 2007 statement). When she tried to raise the shutter from the outside and got it stuck the window was closed (see crime scene photos). If the window was open it could only have been before Dianne arrived at the apartment 5 minutes after Kate raised the alarm but David Payne entered the apartment straight away with the McCanns and did not see the open window which is strange.

[pathfinder73]

Amy Tierney, independent witness

“She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open.”

The shutter was partially open LOL as seen in crime scene photos. Amy got to the apartment before Dianne Webster. Sorry but she has to be mistaken. She couldn't be there before the tapas 9 or if she was one would have said so in their interviews/statements.

[Mr Gray]

I gave you a cite. Dianne Webster's statement.

Dianne Webster got to the apartment 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. She did not see an open window and said it would have been closed (see her 11 May 2007 statement). When she tried to raise the shutter from the outside and got it stuck the window was closed (see crime scene photos). If the window was open it could only have been before Dianne arrived at the apartment 5 minutes after Kate raised the alarm but David Payne entered the apartment straight away with the McCanns and did not see the open window which is strange.

Your cite dies not confirm the window was never open... Think about it... It may have been open and later closed

[barrier]

Your cite dies not confirm the window was never open... Think about it... It may have been open and later closed

No one can confirm if it was open,what a conundrum for a prosecution lawyer.

[pathfinder73]

Your cite dies not confirm the window was never open... Think about it... It may have been open and later closed

I didn't say the window was never open. I said Dianne did not see it open and she was on the scene only 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. And god knows how you can explain David Payne not seeing the open window when he entered the apartment straight after the alarm was raised. That does raise suspicions on whether it was ever open.

[Mr Gray]

I didn't say the window was never open. I said Dianne did not see it open and she was on the scene only 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. And god knows how you can explain David Payne not seeing the open window when he entered the apartment straight after the alarm was raised.

Angelo said it... And I asked him for a cite... Read the posts