Author Topic: Why were they all at the White House that night? Collin Caffell's alibi?  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline Nicholas

No he discussed his fears with his girlfriend which set in around 11.30pm and felt it too late to call.

What are you on about Holly ?

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Offline Caroline

What are you on about Holly ?

Colin had a bad feeling the night before the murders and he discussed them with Heather.

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Colin had a bad feeling the night before the murders and he discussed them with Heather.

Colin also had a bad feeling at the time he left the twins at WHF. 

However, if he'd gone back there on the night of the killings, in the hope of saving them, why on earth wouldn't he have told the police that?

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Colin also had a bad feeling at the time he left the twins at WHF. 

However, if he'd gone back there on the night of the killings, in the hope of saving them, why on earth wouldn't he have told the police that?
I think there is enough evidence to work out what happened.   There was no lead residue on Sheila's hands so I think we can say she never reloaded the magazine. 
Now can we work out how many bullets were fired in total?  From memory, I think it was 25 but I want each bullet accounted for precisely.
If there were 25 bullets fired from just one gun then the magazine needed reloading at least twice.
Can we be sure there weren't two .22 rifles being used?

"Nevill kept several guns at the farm. He was reportedly careful with them, cleaning them after use and securing them.[76] He had bought the gun, a .22 Anschütz semi-automatic rifle, model 525, on 30 November 1984, along with a Parker Hale silencer, telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.[77] Jeremy said he had been present when Nevill bought the gun from a gunsmith in Colchester.[78] It used cartridges, which were loaded into a magazine that held ten cartridges. Twenty-five shots were fired during the killing, so if the rifle was fully loaded to begin with, it would have been reloaded at least twice. The court heard that the magazine became harder to load with each cartridge; loading the tenth was described as "exceptionally hard".[79]

The rifle had normally been used to shoot rabbits with the silencer and telescopic sight attached. The court heard that the telescopic sight had to be removed with a screwdriver, but it was usually left in place because it was time-consuming to realign it."  Wikipedia
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 11:11:48 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Nevill was found in the kitchen, dressed in pyjamas, lying over an overturned chair next to the fireplace, amid a scene suggestive of a struggle.[107] He had been shot eight times,

June
June's body and clothing were heavily bloodstained; she was found in her nightdress with bare feet. The police believe she had been sitting up during part of the attack, based on the pattern of blood on her clothing. She was found lying on the floor by the door of the master bedroom. She had been shot seven times.

Daniel and Nicholas
The boys were found in their beds in their own room (formerly Sheila's room). They appeared to have been shot while in bed. The court heard that Daniel had been shot five times in the back of the head, four times with the gun held within one foot of his head, and once from over two feet away. Nicholas had been shot three times, all contact or close-proximity shots.

Sheila was found on the floor of the master bedroom with her mother. She was in her nightdress, her feet were bare, and she had two bullet wounds under her chin,

8+7+2+5+3 = 25 Bullet wounds,  what no missed shots!
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"Jeremy dictated a list of the firearms kept at the house."  I wonder if anyone knows where that list might be now?
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Colin also had a bad feeling at the time he left the twins at WHF. 

However, if he'd gone back there on the night of the killings, in the hope of saving them, why on earth wouldn't he have told the police that?
This also a bit weird "White House Farm murder: Nevill Bamber had a premonition of slaughter
NEVILL BAMBER had a terrible dream he would die days before he was gunned down by his son Jeremy in a family killing spree that has now been turned into a TV dramatisation. The wealthy farmer, haunted by his nightmare vision, had even told his secretary: “I think there might be a serious shooting.”
By JOHN TWOMEY
PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sat, Jan 4, 2020 | UPDATED: 13:10, Sat, Jan 4, 2020"  https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1223902/White-House-Farm-murder-Nevill-Bamber-premonition-slaughter

What with Nevill having a premonition and Colin Caffell having a premonition as well.  Talk about strange.

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Colin Caffell (Author of In Search of the Rainbow's End)
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Offline Aunt Agatha

I think there is enough evidence to work out what happened.   There was no lead residue on Sheila's hands so I think we can say she never reloaded the magazine. 
Now can we work out how many bullets were fired in total?  From memory, I think it was 25 but I want each bullet accounted for precisely.
If there were 25 bullets fired from just one gun then the magazine needed reloading at least twice.
Can we be sure there weren't two .22 rifles being used?

"Nevill kept several guns at the farm. He was reportedly careful with them, cleaning them after use and securing them.[76] He had bought the gun, a .22 Anschütz semi-automatic rifle, model 525, on 30 November 1984, along with a Parker Hale silencer, telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.[77] Jeremy said he had been present when Nevill bought the gun from a gunsmith in Colchester.[78] It used cartridges, which were loaded into a magazine that held ten cartridges. Twenty-five shots were fired during the killing, so if the rifle was fully loaded to begin with, it would have been reloaded at least twice. The court heard that the magazine became harder to load with each cartridge; loading the tenth was described as "exceptionally hard".[79]

The rifle had normally been used to shoot rabbits with the silencer and telescopic sight attached. The court heard that the telescopic sight had to be removed with a screwdriver, but it was usually left in place because it was time-consuming to realign it."  Wikipedia



Seemingly, lead residue can be removed just by wiping one's hands on a towel.


https://youtu.be/0hAarqiSwbY
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 08:48:13 AM by Robittybob1 »

Offline Myster

"Jeremy dictated a list of the firearms kept at the house."  I wonder if anyone knows where that list might be now?
He didn't dictate, he wrote...


Offline barrier

it puts Jeremy in the clear.  Isn't that what you want?
Checkmate I think Rob.
 I want my sun-drenched, wind-swept Ingrid Bergman kiss Not in the next life, I want it in this

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He didn't dictate, he wrote...


That list shows there were two .22 rifles at the WHF property.
In one of the documentaries there is a photo showing a .22 gun leaning against the wall, whereas the .22 semi-automatic rifle used by Sheila was lying on her abdomen.  So IMO there were two rifles in action that night.  I imagine when Nevill woke up he grabbed a gun and fought for his life against the person in the house.  It might have felt like self-defense for the person who killed Nevill.  It was either do or die for the person fending off Neville's attack.
This might account for the .22 shells being left by the phone.   If Neville used the phone he may have dropped the shells when attacked.

It was recorded that 25 .22 shell casings were picked up from the house.  Does anyone know if the shell casings were kept?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 09:03:01 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Myster

That list shows there were two .22 rifles at the WHF property.
In one of the documentaries there is a photo showing a .22 gun leaning against the wall, whereas the .22 semi-automatic rifle used by Sheila was lying on her abdomen.  So IMO there were two rifles in action that night.  I imagine when Nevill woke up he grabbed a gun and fought for his life against the person in the house.  It might have felt like self-defense for the person who killed Nevill.  It was either do or die for the person fending off Neville's attack.
This might account for the .22 shells being left by the phone.   If Neville used the phone he may have dropped the shells when attacked.

It was recorded that 25 .22 shell casings were picked up from the house.  Does anyone know if the shell casings were kept?
All the used shell casings were bagged by the forensic officer and analysed by Malcolm Fletcher, but destroyed years later.

The unused cartridges on the kitchen worktop were some of those from a full box which Bamber allegedly emptied there the previous night according to his statement.

The rifle leaning against the wall by the bedroom window was the same Anschutz removed from Sheila's body as a safety precaution, before all the bodies were taken to the mortuary. It was photographed in both locations by PC Bird.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 09:39:15 AM by Myster »

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All the used shell casings were bagged by the forensic officer and analysed by Malcolm Fletcher, but destroyed years later.

The unused cartridges on the kitchen worktop were some of those from a full box which Bamber allegedly emptied there the previous night according to his statement.

The rifle leaning against the wall by the bedroom window was the same Anschutz removed from Sheila's body as a safety precaution, before all the bodies were taken to the mortuary. It was photographed in both locations by PC Bird.
OK so do you accept all that as truth?   Where can I find Jeremy Bamber's statement?
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Offline The General

That list shows there were two .22 rifles at the WHF property.
In one of the documentaries there is a photo showing a .22 gun leaning against the wall, whereas the .22 semi-automatic rifle used by Sheila was lying on her abdomen.  So IMO there were two rifles in action that night.  I imagine when Nevill woke up he grabbed a gun and fought for his life against the person in the house.  It might have felt like self-defense for the person who killed Nevill.  It was either do or die for the person fending off Neville's attack.
This might account for the .22 shells being left by the phone.   If Neville used the phone he may have dropped the shells when attacked.

It was recorded that 25 .22 shell casings were picked up from the house.  Does anyone know if the shell casings were kept?
The bolt action.22 would have been pretty useless in a melee.
The only hope of your theory stitching together is that a DBSG was used - which it wasn't.
Fact is, the most effective weapon available was used. OK, Bamber could have loaded 2 cartridges in to 2 shotguns and had a few in a bandoleer, but that would have been one noisy, messy scene and, alas, he had to dispatch the children quietly.
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