Author Topic: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85  (Read 34072 times)

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Offline APRIL

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2020, 11:13:29 AM »

I don't disbelieve you, but by whom? It was Jeremy and Nevill who used that rifle, and Nevill was killed.


Mrswah, I can only speculate. It was a relatively new rifle. Nevill lived in gun knowledgeable society. His niece's husband was a gun dealer. It's very possible he'd have shown off, to any interested others, his new toy and it's attachments when he first got it.

Offline APRIL

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2020, 11:15:10 AM »
I didn't say she was sitting upright.  I said partially upright.


A very loose/ambiguous description.

Offline The General

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2020, 11:22:32 AM »


OR................Jeremy shoots them with the silencer on, maybe even firing the first shot into Sheila with it on before realizing she couldn't shoot herself with it on. He may have given it a cursory wipe before putting it away -we know Sheila wouldn't have bothered to hide it if she'd intended to kill herself- he may have hoped that by placing it at the back of the cupboard, A) it may not have been found for a long time, B) if it was found, because of it's placement, it would have been adjudged not to have been used.
Like it, particularly the bit about it being stashed so as not to be found short term, but eventually it would come to light. He would have to assume that they would automatically start looking for it, which, as it transpired, nobody did.
I still think he may have been better served disposing of it altogether and dealing with the questions about it being missing ad hoc. As it transpired, if Boutflower hadn't stumbled upon it, it may never have been brought up, otherwise someone who knew about its existence surely would have enquired in the interim?
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Brietta

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2020, 11:25:20 AM »

Mrswah, I can only speculate. It was a relatively new rifle. Nevill lived in gun knowledgeable society. His niece's husband was a gun dealer. It's very possible he'd have shown off, to any interested others, his new toy and it's attachments when he first got it.

The rifle was a fairly recent acquisition and obviously Nevill had to be there to purchase it and the ammunition as the licence holder.
One wonders if his son had any input to the choice of weapon as part of his planning to annihilate his family; or if the purchase excited his interest and put the thought into his head.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline The General

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM »
The rifle was a fairly recent acquisition and obviously Nevill had to be there to purchase it and the ammunition as the licence holder.
One wonders if his son had any input to the choice of weapon as part of his planning to annihilate his family; or if the purchase excited his interest and put the thought into his head.
There's something to that, as in it was as utilitarian as it legally could be - .22 calibre being the legal limit for self-loading rifles and had the threaded end to incorporate a moderator. In addition, to further prove it being optimally configured, the scope was removed prior to the atrocity.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline APRIL

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2020, 11:35:04 AM »
Like it, particularly the bit about it being stashed so as not to be found short term, but eventually it would come to light. He would have to assume that they would automatically start looking for it, which, as it transpired, nobody did.
I still think he may have been better served disposing of it altogether and dealing with the questions about it being missing ad hoc. As it transpired, if Boutflower hadn't stumbled upon it, it may never have been brought up, otherwise someone who knew about its existence surely would have enquired in the interim?


It may have been that he felt momentarily caught out and it was one of those either/or, do I/don't I questions.

Offline APRIL

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2020, 11:38:54 AM »
The rifle was a fairly recent acquisition and obviously Nevill had to be there to purchase it and the ammunition as the licence holder.
One wonders if his son had any input to the choice of weapon as part of his planning to annihilate his family; or if the purchase excited his interest and put the thought into his head.


Jeremy had already spoken with Peter Eaton about getting something very much more powerful. Maybe Nevill thought to maintain control of his choice by purchasing it himself?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2020, 12:04:22 PM »
I didn't say she was sitting upright.  I said partially upright.
OK, If she is sitting partially upright there is plenty of opportunity for the blood from her first wound to drip into the end of the silencer.
So I want to know your understanding: "Holly do you accept that Sheila's blood was not in the silencer?"  Was the final shot to Sheila partially sitting up done with the silencer off?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 05:34:37 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2020, 01:15:29 PM »

Jeremy had already spoken with Peter Eaton about getting something very much more powerful. Maybe Nevill thought to maintain control of his choice by purchasing it himself?


I read that it was actually Jeremy who persuaded Nevill to buy that rifle
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2020, 01:17:14 PM »
Especially when both pathologists at trial described SC as partially upright when she sustained both gsw's.


And she was found laying down...

And it’s obvious why...
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline mrswah

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Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #115 on: May 28, 2020, 01:26:02 PM »

I read that it was actually Jeremy who persuaded Nevill to buy that rifle

I read that too (but can't recall where).

I doubt, however, whether Jeremy would have been able to persuade Nevill to buy something he didn't want to buy.

Brancher

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Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #116 on: May 28, 2020, 01:34:34 PM »

It’s you who’s got it all wrong

Oh dear, I've got it all wrong again! Go on then.....


There was no confusion between the relatives at all

They all went to WHF to do a search as Jeremy was flogging off sentimental valuable items prior to probate. I have the wills.

Whilst searching, and unlike the police who only did a basic search; who didn’t seal off the crime scene; destroyed evidence by burning it at Jeremy’s request and Taff’s orders, when looking in the cupboard THOROUGHLY they found the silencer tucked away in a box at the very back. It had been put there purposely in the hope it wouldn’t be spotted — which it wasn’t. At first.

That silencer was NEVER kept in that box. Ever. It was ALWAYS attached to the rifle, along with the scope.

Upon discovering it, one of them heat it carefully on the edges, realising it was the silencer and realising it was strange why it had been hidden, he also realised he shouldn’t touch it in case any evidence was on it.

They couldn’t leave it at WHF — for obvious reasons.

They put it in a clean bag and took it home, they immediately rang the police to tell them they’d found something they should look at. The officer said he would relay the message. For some reason Taff Jones either never read his messages, or the officer didn’t relay it to the correct team.

When Boutflours went there two days later, appalled at their sloppiness, it was THEN they told DS Jones, who immediately went to the Eatons.

DS Jones was unaware they’d found the silencer; he had no idea what they had.


Then perhaps you should take this up with Colin Caffell, whose version of what happened is slightly different, in that he says the confusion was on the part of the cousins, not the police.  I can't get hold of a copy of David Boutflour's statement, but I notice in Ann Eaton's statement she skips over the issue, merely stating that the police were "then contacted".



It’s BS he was drunk — someone said previously he was, which is utter shit — he was in duty and hadn’t had any alcohol at all.


Peter Eaton must be lying then when he said that Jones had drunk most of the bottle.  What else is Peter Eaton lying to us about?  And why would he lie about Stan Jones like that?


He realised the significance and urgency if the find, so placed it carefully in a kitchen roll inner and secured it with tape. He then took it to the station. In the event, although the one grey hair was lost AFTER Jones delivered it to the station, his method of transporting it was excellent given the conditions. Forensics discover all the blood inside, including the red paint which was still on the outer.


Let's just recap - according to the prosecution witnesses, this key evidence was missed by the police, despite a search of the property and despite some of them suspecting Bamber from the start;

it was then removed from the crime scene without authority from police;

it was then examined and tampered with in the witnesses' own home and in the process, some forensic traces on it were destroyed forever;

it was then collected by a police officer, on duty, who drank most of a bottle of whiskey, put the evidence in a bog roll, and transported it in the boot of his car.


Your understanding if ballistics and physics is dire.


Is it?



Back spatter will almost always enter the silencer or barrel, providing one isn’t shooting from many yards away.

Almost always, you say?  There are some forensic ballistics experts who'd like to have a word with you....


Several of the gunshots on the bodies were CONTACT shots, which ALWAYS produce back spatter.


Now you're strawmanning.  I did not say that contact shots do not produce back spatter.  But you state that contact wounds will always produce back spatter.  That's not what the literature says, and anyway, we're dealing here with the question of back spatter traces in the rifle or moderator, a different thing.


They know for a FACT the moderator was used, not just because it contained Sheila's blood and June & Nevill’s, but then FACT — and please try to understand this...it’s very simple — there was NO blood inside the barrel

I’m becoming tired of explaining things that some people can’t grasp.

They may know for a fact that, or any, moderator was used, we don't.  You may want to take as red what they say, I won't.

Brancher

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Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #117 on: May 28, 2020, 01:37:06 PM »
And that they did

And it was proven the silencer was used

Next,

No it wasn't.

Offline Caroline

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #118 on: May 28, 2020, 02:10:25 PM »
So, just to be clear, you're saying that blood or tissue would never find its way inside a silencer and that physics proves it to be impossible?

Holly, can  you PLEASE answer this question? You set a challenge and if I don't have clarity I can't attempt to take it on. You previously said you weren't saying it  was impossible but now you're saying that it's beyond physics?

Bump (AGAIN!).

Offline puglove

Re: First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85
« Reply #119 on: May 28, 2020, 02:22:51 PM »
WHAT? WOW! Explains why he/she thinks inappropriate behaviour is normal  %56&

Hopefully I can get them blocked. Interesting that he doesn't seem to have a problem with anyone else.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.