Author Topic: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean  (Read 683905 times)

0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3765 on: August 25, 2023, 08:14:45 PM »
You miss the point. Private Eye is a highly respected and widely read publication. With a miscarriage of justice raising awareness is half the battle and while Forbes may not be everyone’s cup of tea he’s certainly getting the word out there.

What word is he getting out there? Nothing, because no qualified lawyer will touch it because it's not true.  From the above article: have you considered why would LM wait at the end of his street, 200m away, for Jodi who had already walked 15 mins to meet him? It's obvious why he needed to be seen there but why not just stay at home or meet her halfway, not 99% of the way in his favour. Obvious I suppose even to the most cold hearted observer.

And Forbes book that was 'fact checked' by SL contains contrasting 'facts' to hers.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 08:59:31 PM by KenMore »

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3766 on: August 26, 2023, 12:15:22 AM »
What word is he getting out there? Nothing, because no qualified lawyer will touch it because it's not true.  From the above article: have you considered why would LM wait at the end of his street, 200m away, for Jodi who had already walked 15 mins to meet him? It's obvious why he needed to be seen there but why not just stay at home or meet her halfway, not 99% of the way in his favour. Obvious I suppose even to the most cold hearted observer.

And Forbes book that was 'fact checked' by SL contains contrasting 'facts' to hers.

Yet you told me yourself that Luke has a lawyer and I would assume that he’s qualified.

Why did Luke wait at the end of his street? A more pertinent question would be why did he allegedly stand, nonchalantly at the gate to be seen by Walsh and Fleming? With all the traffic driving by he must have known that he’d be seen so why not run straight into the wooded area almost directly opposite RDP entrance? Why walk the extra distance, with all the danger that entailed, to simply stand at a gate in full view of everyone passing?

Further once he knew he’d been seen at the gate why not just admit that he’d been there? He had been waiting for Jodi after all and as Jodi was known to be coming down RDP there would have been nothing sinister in him standing there. At first Fleming described the youth she saw as wearing a hip length, shiny green jacket…incidentally just like the one Luke was ACTUALLY wearing so why not just admit that it was him?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Admin

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3767 on: August 26, 2023, 10:34:53 AM »
Posters are reminded of the forum rules.

Please keep all comments relevant and above all, civil.

I will suspend any member who does not comply.

Admin

Offline Nicholas

Re: destruction of evidence
« Reply #3768 on: August 26, 2023, 03:39:41 PM »
That there were samples remaining in the archive is a fortunate thing, but from what I can gather, one should not count on the continued existence of this archive.  If the sampled in the archive had been discarded, then the police's destruction of what was in their hands would have utterly prevented this particular miscarriage from being undone.

What exactly are you claiming the police allegedly “destroyed”?

Edward Henry stated at around 35:19 here https://youtu.be/0lCRwDv8scs?si=hpSMys-Ew_IjZzOJ

Could I ask the court to turn to the appellants skeleton argument please, which is core bundle tab 9 and this was an attempt by us to, as it were, demonstrate to the court pictorially and diagrammatically how compelling the tests were because the CCRC in testing the complainants vest top found the approximate location of the dna of Mr B, erm and it’s in this area, and I place my hand as your lordships can see, just above my left breast erm, so the vest top or the camisole lay on top of the bra and the bra is depicted at paragraph 8 over the page at 186, and there is a positive match, scientific analysis billion times more likely to be Mr B than anyone else as part of that sample, scientific match on that…………….

There are several seconds of audio missing between Edward Henry’s above and below statements

“….commonly found in saliva, which lies directly above the bra and the reason why the bra is stained in blood is because her attacker virtually severed the nipple of her left breast. No teeth marks were found but presumably biting through clothing, practically severing the nipple of her left breast and as we state at paragraph 9, the images help to illustrate why the jury would have been entitled to conclude that Mr B deposited his dna on the area of potential saliva staining on the upper left front area of the complainants vest top while biting and nearly severing her left nipple and then I, I do not need to go further than that


Edward Henry then stated at 38:04;

But then to address paragraph 10. And this is important my lords, paragraph 10 addresses the most recent reports of Miss Cherry the forensic scientist erm who erm was working in conjunction with another expert eh performing eh the forensic testing of those samples which had been preserved in the forensic archive, those samples which may as this court will eh determine eh quash Mr Malkinsons conviction and fortuitously those samples that were preserved over long years because most regrettably the vest top, the bra and other clothing, including the complainants knickers, were destroyed by the greater Manchester police at one time when there was a section 17 order in place eh but that is a different matter

Without the camisole/vest top it was all guess work as to where exactly the small cut out piece of material had been removed from the camisole/vest top

The public (which includes you) has been provided with zero evidence of what this “preserved” piece of material looked like or where exactly from the camisole/vest top it was cut from

According to Edward Henry’s description during the appeal hearing this piece of material/sample would have also surely been blood stained - IF it had ever been located “directly” above the severed bleeding nipple area.

How would any forensic examiner be able to visually detect saliva if the material were visually bloodied?

Edward Henry then stated at around 39:17;

Paragraph 10. Dna which could have originated from Mr B has been detected in other areas which can be reasonably be deemed crime specific, these include in the nail clippings scrapings from the left hand, which the complainant said she had used to cause a deep scratch to her attackers face

Why was there no mention of violent rapist Andrew Malkinson’s neck?

Edward Henry went on to state;

Then various references are given in the appeal bundle and also in the supplementary bundles of exhibits, which is marked by an asterisk before the eh the tab. An area of potential saliva staining on the left breast area of the complainants fleece jacket, fabric pieces from an area of potential saliva staining on the left cup of the complaints bra, a neck swab, the complainant was strangled by her attacker and her neck also displayed what could have been a suction mark, the inner aspects, and this is as a result of the respondents erm considered and conscientious further enquires, the inner aspects of the main body of the speculum used to facilitate the taking of internal vaginal swabs from the complainant, erm because obviously she bore marks of injury consistent with being vaginally raped and also taken from the complaints right arm an area which she sustained puncture marks injuries

It is right to say my lords, eh and we note this, that while these results have less statistical significance, the presence of dna in multiple, argueably crime specific locations from which Mr B cannot be excluded as a contributor is information which considered with the reliable attribution, and I say that as an understatement, of Mr B as the source of the dna on the complainants vest top, supports the proposition that it was Mr B not the appellant who was the complainants attacker eh and in fact Miss Cherry in her final report which the court is invited to receive, erm states that the dna findings are within her range of expectations if Mr B had been in contact eh with the complainant at sometime and that if he had had some sexual activity erm eh with her

She was an undoubted victim in this case

I’m sorry I have been referring to her as the complainant

I’ve been corrected…


If you are aware of some of the history of this case you will know that there were and still are “weak DNA” profiles that “fitted” with Andrew Malkinson’s dna

Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Convicted Fraudster Andrew Malkinson & How 10 Members Of The Jury Appear To Have Concluded His VICTIM Was “Mistaken” About Neck & Face Scratch (Part 40)
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/08/26/violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-convicted-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-how-10-members-of-the-jury-appear-to-have-concluded-his-victim-was-mistaken-about-neck-face/

The entire appeal and public relations spin campaign is a scam and it goes to show how corrupt and incompetent the crown prosecution service who were involved with this case are.

It also demonstrates how people like Alex Chalk and Victoria Prentis are not fit for the purpose of the roles they currently hold within government!

The July 2023 appeal hearing and the subsequent judgement are almost as bad as they were in cases like embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra, who, along with her husband Davinder, were quite clearly on the rob at their West Byfleet post office!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 08:27:50 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3769 on: August 27, 2023, 01:44:21 AM »
Another thing that got him convicted was his picture in the paper in mid-August.

Sadistic killer Luke Mitchell and his mother Corinne Mitchell were courting the media

Grace McLean from the daily mail interviewed killer Luke Mitchell a few days after either his 4th July 2003 police interview or his 14th August police interview

Grace McLean’s article referring to her meeting with killer Luke Mitchell and his mother has been reproduced here https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/07/24/killer-luke-mitchell-open-your-eyes-to-the-continuous-bare-faced-lies-of-scammer-sandra-lean-on-sadistic-dalkeith-murderer-her-new-shop-front-part-266/

That photograph of killer Luke Mitchell wearing his replacement parka jacket was orchestrated in an attempt to dupe potential witnesses

Intimate Partner Femicide TIMELINE: Innocence Fraud Killer Luke Mitchell & Scammer Sandra Lean’s Psychological Manipulation - ‘Boiling You Like A Frog’ (Part 168)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/02/26/innocence-fraud-killer-luke-mitchell-confidence-trickster-sandra-leans-psychological-manipulation-boiling-you-like-a-frog-part-168/
« Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 01:51:50 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: New information
« Reply #3770 on: August 27, 2023, 02:05:08 AM »
A great deal of new information is available from studies of wrongful convictions in general, or from a study of the Malkinson case as a recent example.  According to some reports there are items in this case that could be subjected to DNA profiling, and the Malkinson case is a reminder of how probative such testing can potentially be.

If you had studied violent rapist Andrew Malkinson’s case you would know that there remains to be dna profiles that still fit with Malkinson’s profile

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11976.msg707103#msg707103

If the dna profiling in Malkinson’s case were probative, it’s not, but if it were Mr B would have been arrested and charged

The fact that he hasn’t is another massive red flag
« Last Edit: August 27, 2023, 02:08:48 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3771 on: August 27, 2023, 01:47:57 PM »
Yet you told me yourself that Luke has a lawyer and I would assume that he’s qualified.

Why did Luke wait at the end of his street?

Yes, as I mentioned before, he has a criminal defence lawyer dealing with run of the mill legal matters like all criminals have. His lawyer is not raising awareness or getting the word out regards a miscarriage of justice otherwise we would know about it. The rest of your comments are questions to questions.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3772 on: August 27, 2023, 04:51:59 PM »
Why did Luke wait at the end of his street? A more pertinent question would be why did he allegedly stand, nonchalantly at the gate to be seen by Walsh and Fleming? With all the traffic driving by he must have known that he’d be seen so why not run straight into the wooded area almost directly opposite RDP entrance? Why walk the extra distance, with all the danger that entailed, to simply stand at a gate in full view of everyone passing?

Further once he knew he’d been seen at the gate why not just admit that he’d been there? He had been waiting for Jodi after all and as Jodi was known to be coming down RDP there would have been nothing sinister in him standing there. At first Fleming described the youth she saw as wearing a hip length, shiny green jacket…incidentally just like the one Luke was ACTUALLY wearing so why not just admit that it was him?

You're really all over the place here, fl. He was at that gate because he'd just walked down from the woodland strip where he'd just murdered his girlfriend. The gate is directly across the road from where he would have emerged from, from the woodland strip, after he'd murdered Jodi (another coincidence? I think not!). Walking straight down that woodland strip offered him the perfect cover as it was off the beaten track.The field to his right was far too exposed, as well as being occupied by JOHF & GD on a faulty moped at the time, and the field/RDP west to his left was far too exposed (cars driving up & down Newbattle Rd & walkers on RDP might have seen him). He had no chioce other than to get away from the locus, and he knew he was likely seen by motorists on EH Rd (AB saw him, as we know) and knew that he likely had some incriminating DNA on him (ie, some blood traces from Jodi on his person, likely on that long green parka). The woodlands behind that gate also gave him cover, as well as small streams to wash up at and, more crucially, a shortcut to his house (where someone was definitely in between 1745 and 1800, either his mother or brother, or both). Funny that he wasn't seen for 20 mins after the RW & LF sighting at 1742-1745, eh? On a busy rural main road (NB Abbey Rd) that would have been busy with traffic (yes traffic, not pedestrians)? And yes, it could be construed odd that no one reported seeng him going to and from his house berween 1745 - 1800, but, we have to remember it was dinner time and most folk are preoccupied at this time of the day, preparing, eating and clearing up dinner and all of that. The' 'LM would have been covered in blood' stuff is total myth; he incapacitated that girl initially with a huge branch, then choked her to death (cyclist LK heard this part, imo), then used the knife to inflict all those horrific wounds, cutting and slashing that poor girl's throat carefully from behind whilst wearing that long parka that likely took the bulk of any traces of incriminating dna (blood mostly) from Jodi. Any traces would have been concealed well in that olive green camouflage parka, and would certainly not have been seen from a passing car (RW & LF never mentioned blood). LM knew he had been seen in this parka and knew there was a possiblity that there was incriminating DNA on it (ie, Jodi's blood) and that's why it disappeared and a new one purchased from Flip in Edinburgh on 08.07.03 (and no doubt he got rid of his other clothing -- black boots, black jeans and t-shirt -- between 1830 - 1930 when he disappeared from NB rd for a second time that evening, and never seen again for a full hour). 6 separate eye witnesses saw him on the Newbattle Rd between 1805 and 1825 (3 of whom said he was acting suspiciously, like RW & LF did some 20/25 mins earlier further down that same road). I'm aware the couple MO & DH said in court it wasn't him, but picked his clothing out. Let's be logical here and use Occam's razor  -- it was LM they saw. He'd changed significantly between their sighting and their court appearance, due to puberty and the fact he was still physically developing. Tellingly, the 3 pushbike boys positively identified him in court just a few yards up from where MO & DH saw him (2 of the 3 boys knew him personally as they'd cycled with him to school in the past, and they, just like MO & DH, said he was wearing the shiny green bomber jacket and black baggy jeans). Of course it was LM they all saw! CH saw him as well, at around the same point as MO & DH did, and said in court that the youth she saw at the driveway on NB rd & the youth she saw on a tv interview with his mother was 'very, very similar' to LM. She also noted the 'grunge' style clothing he was wearing that day on the NB rd. Of course it was LM they all saw. Logic tells you this. No other person similar looking to LM ever came forward to rule themselves out of that 17-month long murder enquiry between June '03 and November '04 -- for no one who looked similar to LM was ever at those places. It was LM himself. Guilty as hell, imo.

As regards why he wasn't running over the road, trying to get over that gate and into the woods . . . why on earth would he? That would surely incriminate him further? He had no choice other than to try and look calm, cool & nonchalant. But he failed, to an extent. Acting nonchalantly was a mere ruse employed by him, but he didn't look totally nonchalant as LF noted how suspicious looking he was; looking up to no good & cheesed off, straing at the ground, as she said in court. CH, too, noted how suspicious looking he was. She even slowed down to look at what he was doing, and when she did slow down, he retreated back into the path at the house (Barondale Cottages??) and tilted his head down to the side so as to avoid eye contact with her (the same avoiding eye contact that RW & LF mentioned). So, whoever it was that RW, LF & CH saw, they were clearly on edge and wary. Very telling. And, crucially, they all identified LM in court, along with the 3 pushbike boys; the other 3 eyewitnesses (AB, MO & DH weren't sure if it was LM as he'd changed so much due to puberty, with MO & DH even saying it wasn't the same person).

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3773 on: August 27, 2023, 05:09:36 PM »
Yes, as I mentioned before, he has a criminal defence lawyer dealing with run of the mill legal matters like all criminals have. His lawyer is not raising awareness or getting the word out regards a miscarriage of justice otherwise we would know about it. The rest of your comments are questions to questions.

So he has a lawyer. Glad we sorted that out.

As to raising awareness, that’s not his solicitor’s job.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3774 on: August 27, 2023, 05:18:54 PM »
You're really all over the place here, fl. He was at that gate because he'd just walked down from the woodland strip where he'd just murdered his girlfriend. The gate is directly across the road from where he would have emerged from, from the woodland strip, after he'd murdered Jodi (another coincidence? I think not!). Walking straight down that woodland strip offered him the perfect cover as it was off the beaten track.The field to his right was far too exposed, as well as being occupied by JOHF & GD on a faulty moped at the time, and the field/RDP west to his left was far too exposed (cars driving up & down Newbattle Rd & walkers on RDP might have seen him). He had no chioce other than to get away from the locus, and he knew he was likely seen by motorists on EH Rd (AB saw him, as we know) and knew that he likely had some incriminating DNA on him (ie, some blood traces from Jodi on his person, likely on that long green parka). The woodlands behind that gate also gave him cover, as well as small streams to wash up at and, more crucially, a shortcut to his house (where someone was definitely in between 1745 and 1800, either his mother or brother, or both). Funny that he wasn't seen for 20 mins after the RW & LF sighting at 1742-1745, eh? On a busy rural main road (NB Abbey Rd) that would have been busy with traffic (yes traffic, not pedestrians)? And yes, it could be construed odd that no one reported seeng him going to and from his house berween 1745 - 1800, but, we have to remember it was dinner time and most folk are preoccupied at this time of the day, preparing, eating and clearing up dinner and all of that. The' 'LM would have been covered in blood' stuff is total myth; he incapacitated that girl initially with a huge branch, then choked her to death (cyclist LK heard this part, imo), then used the knife to inflict all those horrific wounds, cutting and slashing that poor girl's throat carefully from behind whilst wearing that long parka that likely took the bulk of any traces of incriminating dna (blood mostly) from Jodi. Any traces would have been concealed well in that olive green camouflage parka, and would certainly not have been seen from a passing car (RW & LF never mentioned blood). LM knew he had been seen in this parka and knew there was a possiblity that there was incriminating DNA on it (ie, Jodi's blood) and that's why it disappeared and a new one purchased from Flip in Edinburgh on 08.07.03 (and no doubt he got rid of his other clothing -- black boots, black jeans and t-shirt -- between 1830 - 1930 when he disappeared from NB rd for a second time that evening, and never seen again for a full hour). 6 separate eye witnesses saw him on the Newbattle Rd between 1805 and 1825 (3 of whom said he was acting suspiciously, like RW & LF did some 20/25 mins earlier further down that same road). I'm aware the couple MO & DH said in court it wasn't him, but picked his clothing out. Let's be logical here and use Occam's razor  -- it was LM they saw. He'd changed significantly between their sighting and their court appearance, due to puberty and the fact he was still physically developing. Tellingly, the 3 pushbike boys positively identified him in court just a few yards up from where MO & DH saw him (2 of the 3 boys knew him personally as they'd cycled with him to school in the past, and they, just like MO & DH, said he was wearing the shiny green bomber jacket and black baggy jeans). Of course it was LM they all saw! CH saw him as well, at around the same point as MO & DH did, and said in court that the youth she saw at the driveway on NB rd & the youth she saw on a tv interview with his mother was 'very, very similar' to LM. She also noted the 'grunge' style clothing he was wearing that day on the NB rd. Of course it was LM they all saw. Logic tells you this. No other person similar looking to LM ever came forward to rule themselves out of that 17-month long murder enquiry between June '03 and November '04 -- for no one who looked similar to LM was ever at those places. It was LM himself. Guilty as hell, imo.

As regards why he wasn't running over the road, trying to get over that gate and into the woods . . . why on earth would he? That would surely incriminate him further? He had no choice other than to try and look calm, cool & nonchalant. But he failed, to an extent. Acting nonchalantly was a mere ruse employed by him, but he didn't look totally nonchalant as LF noted how suspicious looking he was; looking up to no good & cheesed off, straing at the ground, as she said in court. CH, too, noted how suspicious looking he was. She even slowed down to look at what he was doing, and when she did slow down, he retreated back into the path at the house (Barondale Cottages??) and tilted his head down to the side so as to avoid eye contact with her (the same avoiding eye contact that RW & LF mentioned). So, whoever it was that RW, LF & CH saw, they were clearly on edge and wary. Very telling. And, crucially, they all identified LM in court, along with the 3 pushbike boys; the other 3 eyewitnesses (AB, MO & DH weren't sure if it was LM as he'd changed so much due to puberty, with MO & DH even saying it wasn't the same person).

I think LM went home and changed his clothes between 1742-1800 (his jacket and footwear, at least). Then, between 1830 and 1930, went back home to give his mother the lowdown on what happened to Jodi (if he didn't confess to her about the murder, he told her something else that something bad had happened to Jodi and that he needed help to get out of a bad situation). In his house, I think he, if he didn't already between 1742-1800, changed into a fresh pair of black, baggy jeans and t-shirt, whist obviously keeping the bomber and white boots on that he'd changed into between 1742-1800. Between 1830-1930,  I think he definitely cleaned up somewhere (even the boys he met up with in the abbey at 1930 testified in court just how much cleaner he was that night). And during these two windows of time, I think he set about destroying all the clothes he had on between 1640-1740 (the parka obviously being the main piece of clothing he had to get rid of quickly). Isn't it strange that LM wasn't seen on a busy rural main road, not once, between 1742-1800 and 1830-1930?

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3775 on: August 27, 2023, 06:10:54 PM »
You're really all over the place here, fl. He was at that gate because he'd just walked down from the woodland strip where he'd just murdered his girlfriend. The gate is directly across the road from where he would have emerged from, from the woodland strip, after he'd murdered Jodi (another coincidence? I think not!). Walking straight down that woodland strip offered him the perfect cover as it was off the beaten track.The field to his right was far too exposed, as well as being occupied by JOHF & GD on a faulty moped at the time, and the field/RDP west to his left was far too exposed (cars driving up & down Newbattle Rd & walkers on RDP might have seen him). He had no chioce other than to get away from the locus, and he knew he was likely seen by motorists on EH Rd (AB saw him, as we know) and knew that he likely had some incriminating DNA on him (ie, some blood traces from Jodi on his person, likely on that long green parka). The woodlands behind that gate also gave him cover, as well as small streams to wash up at and, more crucially, a shortcut to his house (where someone was definitely in between 1745 and 1800, either his mother or brother, or both). Funny that he wasn't seen for 20 mins after the RW & LF sighting at 1742-1745, eh? On a busy rural main road (NB Abbey Rd) that would have been busy with traffic (yes traffic, not pedestrians)? And yes, it could be construed odd that no one reported seeng him going to and from his house berween 1745 - 1800, but, we have to remember it was dinner time and most folk are preoccupied at this time of the day, preparing, eating and clearing up dinner and all of that. The' 'LM would have been covered in blood' stuff is total myth; he incapacitated that girl initially with a huge branch, then choked her to death (cyclist LK heard this part, imo), then used the knife to inflict all those horrific wounds, cutting and slashing that poor girl's throat carefully from behind whilst wearing that long parka that likely took the bulk of any traces of incriminating dna (blood mostly) from Jodi. Any traces would have been concealed well in that olive green camouflage parka, and would certainly not have been seen from a passing car (RW & LF never mentioned blood). LM knew he had been seen in this parka and knew there was a possiblity that there was incriminating DNA on it (ie, Jodi's blood) and that's why it disappeared and a new one purchased from Flip in Edinburgh on 08.07.03 (and no doubt he got rid of his other clothing -- black boots, black jeans and t-shirt -- between 1830 - 1930 when he disappeared from NB rd for a second time that evening, and never seen again for a full hour). 6 separate eye witnesses saw him on the Newbattle Rd between 1805 and 1825 (3 of whom said he was acting suspiciously, like RW & LF did some 20/25 mins earlier further down that same road). I'm aware the couple MO & DH said in court it wasn't him, but picked his clothing out. Let's be logical here and use Occam's razor  -- it was LM they saw. He'd changed significantly between their sighting and their court appearance, due to puberty and the fact he was still physically developing. Tellingly, the 3 pushbike boys positively identified him in court just a few yards up from where MO & DH saw him (2 of the 3 boys knew him personally as they'd cycled with him to school in the past, and they, just like MO & DH, said he was wearing the shiny green bomber jacket and black baggy jeans). Of course it was LM they all saw! CH saw him as well, at around the same point as MO & DH did, and said in court that the youth she saw at the driveway on NB rd & the youth she saw on a tv interview with his mother was 'very, very similar' to LM. She also noted the 'grunge' style clothing he was wearing that day on the NB rd. Of course it was LM they all saw. Logic tells you this. No other person similar looking to LM ever came forward to rule themselves out of that 17-month long murder enquiry between June '03 and November '04 -- for no one who looked similar to LM was ever at those places. It was LM himself. Guilty as hell, imo.

As regards why he wasn't running over the road, trying to get over that gate and into the woods . . . why on earth would he? That would surely incriminate him further? He had no choice other than to try and look calm, cool & nonchalant. But he failed, to an extent. Acting nonchalantly was a mere ruse employed by him, but he didn't look totally nonchalant as LF noted how suspicious looking he was; looking up to no good & cheesed off, straing at the ground, as she said in court. CH, too, noted how suspicious looking he was. She even slowed down to look at what he was doing, and when she did slow down, he retreated back into the path at the house (Barondale Cottages??) and tilted his head down to the side so as to avoid eye contact with her (the same avoiding eye contact that RW & LF mentioned). So, whoever it was that RW, LF & CH saw, they were clearly on edge and wary. Very telling. And, crucially, they all identified LM in court, along with the 3 pushbike boys; the other 3 eyewitnesses (AB, MO & DH weren't sure if it was LM as he'd changed so much due to puberty, with MO & DH even saying it wasn't the same person).

Can I suggest that you look at some photographs of the locus of Fleming/Walsh’s alleged sighting. It is some distance from where Luke would have come out at the Newbattle end of RDP. I did post some photos illustrating this some time back if you are willing to trawl through my posts. There is an opening almost directly across from the RDP opening that would have taken Luke out of sight of the road and into the safety of heavy foliage. You would have thought the perfect route for someone who had just committed a murder and wanted to keep out of view. Yet that’s not what he did, if you believe Fleming/Walsh. Does that make sense to you?

If Luke had washed in a stream why was nothing from that stream found on his person when he was forensically tested? Small tributaries like the one you are suggesting are always alive with thousands of microorganisms. These would have shown up on his hair and skin if he had indeed washed himself in a stream. Why didn’t they?

As to the 20 minute timeline, which you yourself in the same sentence truncated it to 15, three cyclists, two of who attend school with Luke, describe seeing Luke ‘ standing at an entrance to a driveway before Newbattle Abbey Crescent,’ ( Barondale Cottages has just such a driveway) on their way to the Jewel and Esk college at 5.55pm. They also describe him as wearing a bomber jacket. That leaves him barely ten minutes from the alleged Walsh/Fleming sighting to get home, tell his mum that he’s murdered his girlfriend, get changed and be back on Newbattle Road for Holborn et al to see him, unflustered, at 5.55pm. Do you really think that this is feasible?

If Luke had incapacitated Jodi initially where did she get such lethal defensive wounds? The pathologist testified that she fought for her life. How could she have done that if she was incapacitated? Further if she was incapacitated how could she have made a ‘strangling sound’ while being throttled? Do unconscious people make sounds? If Jodi had fought for her life as the pathologist suggested she’d be screaming her head off while fighting off her attacker. It’s astonishing that no one, not even Kelly, heard those screams.

I agree, it was Luke that the witnesses saw on the Newbattle Road, even Walsh/Fleming, although further towards the Abbey than they testified in court to. As to not being seen for an hour, that timeline doesn’t stack up either. The cyclists saw Luke at 6.25 to 6.30. David High received a call from him at 6.30 to invite him to his house. A few minutes later he called High back and told him to meet him at the Abbey. By 7pm David Tulloch testified to Luke being at the Abbey. So why do you think that Luke went missing for an hour?


« Last Edit: August 27, 2023, 06:15:11 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3776 on: August 27, 2023, 06:26:30 PM »
So he has a lawyer. Glad we sorted that out.

As to raising awareness, that’s not his solicitor’s job.

So you believe what I say about his lawyer but not about what his brother says.

How do you know he has a lawyer?

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3777 on: August 27, 2023, 06:53:32 PM »
So you believe what I say about his lawyer but not about what his brother says.

How do you know he has a lawyer?

His lawyer is common knowledge as was the postcode you posted last week, I believe, relating to Shane and his place of work.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3778 on: August 27, 2023, 07:17:50 PM »
His lawyer is common knowledge as was the postcode you posted last week, I believe, relating to Shane and his place of work.

You didn't know who his lawyer was last month so how is it now common knowledge?

The partial postcode wasn't SM's home or place of work so not common knowledge.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #3779 on: August 27, 2023, 08:27:19 PM »
Can I suggest that you look at some photographs of the locus of Fleming/Walsh’s alleged sighting. It is some distance from where Luke would have come out at the Newbattle end of RDP. I did post some photos illustrating this some time back if you are willing to trawl through my posts. There is an opening almost directly across from the RDP opening that would have taken Luke out of sight of the road and into the safety of heavy foliage. You would have thought the perfect route for someone who had just committed a murder and wanted to keep out of view. Yet that’s not what he did, if you believe Fleming/Walsh. Does that make sense to you?

If Luke had washed in a stream why was nothing from that stream found on his person when he was forensically tested? Small tributaries like the one you are suggesting are always alive with thousands of microorganisms. These would have shown up on his hair and skin if he had indeed washed himself in a stream. Why didn’t they?

As to the 20 minute timeline, which you yourself in the same sentence truncated it to 15, three cyclists, two of who attend school with Luke, describe seeing Luke ‘ standing at an entrance to a driveway before Newbattle Abbey Crescent,’ ( Barondale Cottages has just such a driveway) on their way to the Jewel and Esk college at 5.55pm. They also describe him as wearing a bomber jacket. That leaves him barely ten minutes from the alleged Walsh/Fleming sighting to get home, tell his mum that he’s murdered his girlfriend, get changed and be back on Newbattle Road for Holborn et al to see him, unflustered, at 5.55pm. Do you really think that this is feasible?

If Luke had incapacitated Jodi initially where did she get such lethal defensive wounds? The pathologist testified that she fought for her life. How could she have done that if she was incapacitated? Further if she was incapacitated how could she have made a ‘strangling sound’ while being throttled? Do unconscious people make sounds? If Jodi had fought for her life as the pathologist suggested she’d be screaming her head off while fighting off her attacker. It’s astonishing that no one, not even Kelly, heard those screams.

I agree, it was Luke that the witnesses saw on the Newbattle Road, even Walsh/Fleming, although further towards the Abbey than they testified in court to. As to not being seen for an hour, that timeline doesn’t stack up either. The cyclists saw Luke at 6.25 to 6.30. David High received a call from him at 6.30 to invite him to his house. A few minutes later he called High back and told him to meet him at the Abbey. By 7pm David Tulloch testified to Luke being at the Abbey. So why do you think that Luke went missing for an hour?

I looked at the gate previously on google earth and, from memory, it is just a few yards up a bit and across the road from where he would have emerged if he continued walking west down that woodland strip. I don't think he walked down the RDP west (to his left) after he murdered her and nor do I think he went on to that field north (to his right). Am I correct in thinking that if he did continue west down the woodland strip, he would've emerged where I said he would've emerged? I'm not familiar with the area and haven't visited the locus, and Google Earth doesn't show detailed pics of the locus and the rest of the woodland strip.

I don't know about that area where you suggest he could've hidden. Wouldn't he have had to cross the road to get to it? He had to cross that road and had no choice as he needed cover and out of those clothes that no doubt had some traces of incriminating dna on them. It would have been impossible for him to cross that road at that time of day without being noticed, and it proved to be a big part of his undoing.

I don't think any of those 'organisms' would've shown up. It was ,and still is, fresh water.

You are being unfair with your timings -- using the shortest possible timings. Nobody on the planet knows what the exact, precise times were.  I'm of the view that LM did what he did and that he times fit nicely.

The defensive wounds could've still happened. Maybe Jodi, while inapacitated, still managed to mover her arms.



RW & LF never saw him nearer the abbey. That is a very probably a misrepresentation that is in the defence papers. Once everything was looked at more carefully and fine-tuned, it was established that it was the gate further down the NB rd, on the left whilst driving north,  and not the gate at the abbey some 200 yards further up, on the right hand side of Walsh & Fleming .