Author Topic: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.  (Read 64841 times)

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Redblossom

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Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #135 on: January 19, 2014, 04:45:26 PM »
A credible witness then?  ...NOT

No

Lets not forget he said he checked the Oldfields kids on Sundy night...well Oldfield was in that night off sick....he also said he checked on the Mccanns kids the Sunday through the open patio door though neither Gerry or  Kate ever mention hm checking their kids and also Gerry said their patio door was locked that night...so no, its entirely possible that he gets dates mixed up! At best....

Offline bros

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2014, 12:07:00 AM »
I am spotting some unusual detail in the statements of British sister  which they try to deliver and that is "Murat constant urge to change cloths the day GNR dog was searching for Madeleine" and Murat accompanying GNR officer as translator" why he changed his cloths so many times feeling uncomfortable, is it maybe the GNR dog? 




ANN WILTSHIRE & JANE JENSEN
ANNIE WILTSHIRE AND JAYNE JENSEN (58 and 53) Year 2007 (Holiday friends)
Annie Wiltshire and Jayne Jensen, both from Aylesford in Kent, were on a fortnight’s holiday in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz. They stayed in an apartment opposite the tapas bar and became friends with the McCanns through tennis. Annie Wiltshire and Jayne Jensen told police they saw Mr Murat smoking a cigarette outside the Ocean Club’s entrance, 20 metres from the McCanns’ apartment, between 10.30 and 11pm on May 3. The sisters joined in the search for Madeleine that night. They recognised Murat the next day as he acted as an interpreter for cops. The sisters said his behaviour was "strange" and described how he changed his clothes at least once during the day of May 4, but then insisted to them that he had been wearingthe same outfit all day.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/playground.jpg

Murat in navy blue and jeans exactly as described on 4th of May




« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 12:09:45 AM by bros »

Offline pegasus

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2014, 12:29:43 AM »
@bros  the evidence shows that RM tells the truth - he was wearing those same blue jeans and t-shirt in the morning of the 4th - there is a photo which proves this.

The two witnesses you mention saw two different men and accidentally confused them to be one.
The man they saw evening 3rd, and (in a striped top) on morning 4th was not RM.
The man they saw later on 4th (in blue jeans and tshirt) was RM.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 12:42:03 AM by pegasus »

Offline Benice

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2014, 12:43:30 AM »
@bros  the evidence shows that RM tells the truth - he was wearing those same blue jeans and t-shirt in the morning of the 4th - there is a photo which proves this.

[Name removed] saw two different men and accidentally confuses them to be one.
The man [Name removed] saw evening 3rd, and (in a striped top) on morning 4th was not RM.
The man [Name removed] saw later on 4th (in blue jeans and tshirt) was RM.

How do you know that he didn't change his clothes some time after that photograph was taken?
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pegasus

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #139 on: November 23, 2014, 01:09:31 AM »
How do you know that he didn't change his clothes some time after that photograph was taken?
Because the photo I time at 10.30am showing RM in blue jeans and blue tshirt is at the same time that [Name removed]/AW saw their man wearing striped shirt and trousers. Two different men. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 01:13:33 AM by pegasus »

Offline misty

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #140 on: November 23, 2014, 01:26:23 AM »
Because the photo I time at 10.30am showing RM in blue jeans and blue tshirt is at the same time that [Name removed]/AW saw their man wearing striped shirt and trousers. Two different men.

Yet we don't have a description of the clothes worn by the man they saw the previous evening....I wonder why not?

Offline pegasus

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #141 on: November 23, 2014, 01:39:25 AM »
Yet we don't have a description of the clothes worn by the man they saw the previous evening....I wonder why not?
One of these two lady witnesses (not both) saw that man evening 3rd and I haven't found a description by her of his clothing then, but there is a little information in another source.

Offline misty

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #142 on: November 23, 2014, 01:50:09 AM »
One of these two lady witnesses (not both) saw that man evening 3rd and I haven't found a description by her of his clothing then, but there is a little information in another source.

Well, come on then...or do I have to spend hours googling again?
P.S.  I reckon you've got inside knowledge of who owns all those private apartments in block 5 to have identified the owner of the grey car.

Offline bros

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #143 on: November 23, 2014, 08:10:01 AM »
Well, come on then...or do I have to spend hours googling again?
P.S.  I reckon you've got inside knowledge of who owns all those private apartments in block 5 to have identified the owner of the grey car.

 ?{)(**

Pagasus please point to the evidence that sister witnesses have changed statements, as I recall it is not only them but six witnesses in total cast doubt over Murat alibi.

The key witnesses are:

• Holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, a 54-year-old businesswoman. In a statement to police she said she saw Mr Murat smoking a cigarette on the street corner opposite the apartment half an hour after Madeleine disappeared.

•The barrister, who has not been named but was on holiday and was pictured in Praia da Luz at the time Madeleine vanished. He has given a witness statement that corroborates what Ms Jensen said.

The next evening he and Ms Jensen were talking about the disappearance on an apartment balcony when Mr Murat joined them for a drink.

The barrister has described Mr Murat's behaviour that evening as "odd", saying Mr Murat insisted on going to change his clothes because it had been a long day - when they were certain he had already changed earlier.
-Second witness about his constant clothes change.

Three friends of the McCanns. It is understood they have given statements to police insisting Mr Murat introduced himself to them on the night Madeleine vanished. It is claimed he said: "I am Robert. Can I help in the search?" Mr Murat subsequently acted as a translator between the police and the McCanns up until he was made a suspect.

• Charlotte Pennington, a nanny working at the Ocean Club resort. She claims to have seen Mr Murat in the hours after Madeleine vanished.

A source close to Mrs McCann told the Standard: "Kate has always felt there are questions concerning Murat that need to be answered.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-505368/Madeleine-SIX-key-witnesses-cast-doubt-Robert-

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:13:49 AM by bros »

Offline Carana

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #144 on: November 23, 2014, 10:51:24 AM »
@bros  the evidence shows that RM tells the truth - he was wearing those same blue jeans and t-shirt in the morning of the 4th - there is a photo which proves this.

The two witnesses you mention saw two different men and accidentally confused them to be one.
The man they saw evening 3rd, and (in a striped top) on morning 4th was not RM.
The man they saw later on 4th (in blue jeans and tshirt) was RM.

Some may have RM confused with DP.

(Yvonne Martin also described DP as wearing a dark polo top, when he was the one with the stripey one and RM wore the dark blue T-shirt.
"Speaking with a Southern English accent
Wearing light trousers, cream or beige coloured, and a dark polo shirt.")



And I still find it plausible that translatorman might have been John Hill.

The resemblance isn't that close, but in the chaos of that night, anyone of roughly the same height/build with glasses.




Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #145 on: November 23, 2014, 11:23:00 AM »
DP doesn't smoke and the witnesses clearly said they saw Murat smoking

Offline bros

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #146 on: November 23, 2014, 01:21:02 PM »
DP doesn't smoke and the witnesses clearly said they saw Murat smoking

It is very obvious what your saying people were drinking with Murat the day and day after. I am just getting curios why Murat had to change  cloths so many times. On couple of pictures we can see Murat escorting dog handler trying to pick a scent.

Offline Benice

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #147 on: November 23, 2014, 01:25:00 PM »
DP doesn't smoke and the witnesses clearly said they saw Murat smoking


IIRC Fiona Payne gave the most detailed description of seeing Murat on the 3rd.   I don't think she would mistake her own husband for him.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #148 on: November 23, 2014, 01:58:19 PM »

IIRC Fiona Payne gave the most detailed description of seeing Murat on the 3rd.   I don't think she would mistake her own husband for him.

But then FP is not an independent witness.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Benice

Re: Why Robert Murat became a suspect and then an arguido.
« Reply #149 on: November 23, 2014, 03:06:17 PM »
But then FP is not an independent witness.

So does that automatically make her a liar in your opinion Faith?

FP (or the others)  had no reason to lie.      They had no idea that Murat had been made an Arguido until after he was made one - and his face appeared on TV.    It would have been mighty strange IMO if they had decided not to let the police know they had seen him on the 3rd.    What they did in contacting the police was what I would expect any normal person to do in those circumstances IMO.

Do you class Silvia Batista as an independent witness?  She claimed to have seen Murat on that night too.  I'm not aware that she ever changed her mind about that,  (but that's from memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary).

 

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal