The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.

[Mr Gray]

Well, it sort of morphed from that original draft agreement. Have a look at p. 38.

It later turned into £750 a day for the first first 7 days and £650 per day thereafter (and days charged included the Sunday rest days").

ETA: I don't have a problem with the fee charged, but more with the length of stay, the reasons and the results. I don't find the decision-making clear, nor on what basis those decisions were made.

 So he was paid these sums seven days per week for several weeks. Eddie made 11 alerts I believe...so that equates to about one alert a week...so over £8000 per alert....from the little information we have I think he is earning a fraction of that in the US now. In my opinion he was way over valued back then and perhaps people have realised now. So £93,000 in Jersey...and what did he produce...what evidence did he discover that allowed charges to be brought...nothing. perhaps this is why he has been so quiet about the dogs findings in PDL.

again I would stress that I am not criticising grime or his dogs...its the expectations people have re the alerts which in my opinion the PJ misunderstood...as have many posters on this forum

[Mr Gray]

This thread has been cleared of irrelevant and argumentative posts. Please keep to topic.

 thanks, lets all try to keep on topic and debate in an adult way.

[j.rob]

Sick of reading carp about the dogs. 200 cases prior to the McCanns and afterwards positive findings, and they are rubbish.

The dogs alert blah blah, but they dont know what it is they are alerting to, its just a trained scent to them.

Grimes had no idea they would alert ANYWHERE.

The trouble is with the Internet everyone can be an expert. It takes years of training these dogs if they are constantly tested and if they fail they are out.

Look at all the people dogs help, blind, deaf, diabetic, disabled, stuck in avalanches, bomb disposal, (very brave and many are killed), they used them in the war and they saved a lot of lives.

The dog is not for making fun of no way.

Meet Sergeant Stubby a decorated dog from World War 1.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sergeant_stubby.htm

He saved many a life with his sensitive nose.

So many dogs deployed in the war over 30,000 who went on to save countless lives.

The dogs save many lives in many situations, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados.

They stop terroists from getting on planes to blow us up.

Dogs at war:

http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/content/animals/animals/breeds/dogtopics/dogs_war.htm

Dogs who save lives:

http://www.dogguide.net/25-hero-dogs.php

What makes a good Cadaver dog?

Drive, a good nose, and an ability to focus.  A good cadaver dog needs to be deeply bonded to his handler and simultaneously be independent and to make decisions on his own.  The dog needs to work as part of an inseparable unit with the handler, but also be independent enough that he’s not constantly looking back for signals on what to do next.  When Solo is working scent, he won’t look back at me for minutes at a time.  He will be out there, and I will be trying to stay out of his way so he can do his best work.

Taken from this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2013/10/1310xx-working-dog-dead-body-cat-warren-science/

Finally from the above article:

Finally, I think it's important for people to realize that while dogs and their noses are amazing, they are not magical, and it's not easy work. It takes rigorous training, handling, and a fine dog to produce good results.


I am sadly sick to death of the dogs being made fun of and Grimes too. Its beyond sickening.

They were asked to do a job they did it.

End of.

Thank god for dogs is all I can say, I would rather trust one of them at least you know where you stand with them.

Bloody good post!

The Portuguese police presumably believed that it was highly unlikely that the dogs would WRONGLY scent. They hadn't before so they believed them to be accurate.

Sounds reasonable to me. A darn sight more accurate than the various mystics and clairvoyants that the McCann's were apparently giving some credence to at some stage.

[Cariad]

So he was paid these sums seven days per week for several weeks. Eddie made 11 alerts I believe...so that equates to about one alert a week...so over £8000 per alert....from the little information we have I think he is earning a fraction of that in the US now. In my opinion he was way over valued back then and perhaps people have realised now. So £93,000 in Jersey...and what did he produce...what evidence did he discover that allowed charges to be brought...nothing. perhaps this is why he has been so quiet about the dogs findings in PDL.

again I would stress that I am not criticising grime or his dogs...its the expectations people have re the alerts which in my opinion the PJ misunderstood...as have many posters on this forum

This is just silly! To imply that the dogs were paid per alert is ridiculous.

I don't care what Mr Grime was paid, so I'm not going to trawl through the paperwork and see if his wages have dropped substantially.

He is still employed so has not been discredited.

[Mr Gray]

This is just silly! To imply that the dogs were paid per alert is ridiculous.

I don't care what Mr Grime was paid, so I'm not going to trawl through the paperwork and see if his wages have dropped substantially.

He is still employed so has not been discredited.

never said they were paid per alert..what I have said was grime was paid £93000 in jesey which amounts to 8 grand per alert..I then went on to say perhaps those who employ him realised that at 8 grand per alert...no useful evidence found..he was slightly overpaid...Many professionals can command fees of and in excess of £1000 per day...myself included...but our clients expect to see results

[AnneGuedes]

Sounds reasonable to me. A darn sight more accurate than the various mystics and clairvoyants that the McCann's were apparently giving some credence to at some stage.

Not as "apparently" as that ! Apart from the Southafrican body hunter, the PJ had to investigate a vision of Lagos harbour by a psychic friend of a friend of an aunt or uncle of Mrs McCann. Then Mr McCann had his own vision (tunnel and light) in PDL church. Then Mrs McCann had a dream... that Mr McCann denied outside of the Court room in January 2010. Finally inspector Paiva was submerged by e-mails of psychics that Mr McCann insisted in sending forward to him.
Rationality wasn't invited in this case.

[Mr Gray]

Not as "apparently" as that ! Apart from the Southafrican body hunter, the PJ had to investigate a vision of Lagos harbour by a psychic friend of a friend of an aunt or uncle of Mrs McCann. Then Mr McCann had his own vision (tunnel and light) in PDL church. Then Mrs McCann had a dream... that Mr McCann denied outside of the Court room in January 2010. Finally inspector Paiva was submerged by e-mails of psychics that Mr McCann insisted in sending forward to him.
Rationality wasn't invited in this case.

 Anne you are perpetuating a myth...where is your proof that Mr McCann had a vision...or sent in emails from psychics....stories from your friend down the chip shop don't count...please try and stick to facts otherwise you undermine your whole credibility

[Mr Gray]

 anne ..it is probably outside your comprehension that professionals could command these fees...in the Uk...these fees are not unusual

[AnneGuedes]

Anne you are perpetuating a myth...where is your proof that Mr McCann had a vision...or sent in emails from psychics....stories from your friend down the chip shop don't count...please try and stick to facts otherwise you undermine your whole credibility

No myths at all ! Inform yourself !
One night early in the week – I think it was that Tuesday evening – while we were praying privately at Nossa Senhora da Luz, Gerry had an extraordinary spiritual experience. He suddenly became aware of a long tunnel with light at the far end of it. He felt himself enter the tunnel and, as he went deeper and deeper inside, it became wider and wider and brighter and brighter. He had never known anything like this before and he immediately interpreted it as a sign urging us to do absolutely everything within our power to find Madeleine ourselves.

[Mr Gray]

No myths at all ! Inform yourself !
One night early in the week – I think it was that Tuesday evening – while we were praying privately at Nossa Senhora da Luz, Gerry had an extraordinary spiritual experience. He suddenly became aware of a long tunnel with light at the far end of it. He felt himself enter the tunnel and, as he went deeper and deeper inside, it became wider and wider and brighter and brighter. He had never known anything like this before and he immediately interpreted it as a sign urging us to do absolutely everything within our power to find Madeleine ourselves.

 No anne inform yourself...first what is the source for this?...and secondly ...did the pj have to launch an investigation because of this ...the answers no .... but carry on spreading myths...its about all you have to criticise the McCanns

[AnneGuedes]

I even doubt that a psychiastrist would have been interested by the NDE like vision of Mr McCann on the 8th of May, described by Mrs McCann in "Madeleine". The PJ would certainly not.
The psychic's vision mentioned a boat in the Lagos harbour was investigated and it's in the PJ files.  Outros Apensos VIII Vol II a, pp. 322-30
Then about Mr McCann flooding the PJ with inept e-mails and posts from psychics and mediums about possible whereabouts of Madeleine, Vol X, pp. 2533-34
Service Information Date: 2007/09/03

Myths ?

[Cariad]

never said they were paid per alert..what I have said was grime was paid £93000 in jesey which amounts to 8 grand per alert..I then went on to say perhaps those who employ him realised that at 8 grand per alert...no useful evidence found..he was slightly overpaid...Many professionals can command fees of and in excess of £1000 per day...myself included...but our clients expect to see results

But someone employing a cadaver dog might not see any alerts and that would be a result too. no alerts are also intelligence, suggesting that there probably hasn't been a body at the scene.

This is why I find the idea that a handler would cue a dog so bizarre. It's not the dogs job to alert, it's the dogs job to find a scent. If there isn't any scent for the dog to alert to, it's still done its job and should be paid.

I can't really comment on how long the Jersey operation took, cause I don't know enough about it.

[Mr Gray]

I even doubt that a psychiastrist would have been interested by the NDE like vision of Mr McCann on the 8th of May, described by Mrs McCann in "Madeleine". The PJ would certainly not.
The psychic's vision mentioned a boat in the Lagos harbour was investigated and it's in the PJ files.  Outros Apensos VIII Vol II a, pp. 322-30
Then about Mr McCann flooding the PJ with inept e-mails and posts from psychics and mediums about possible whereabouts of Madeleine, Vol X, pp. 2533-34
Service Information Date: 2007/09/03

Myths ?

 doesn't Portugal have a whole industry based on a "vision " at Fatima...an absolutely massive industry which has no more validity than the vision you attribute to Gerry.

So how would a psychiatrist evaluate the visions at Fatima as you raise this point...I think he would say...and I speak with some experience...when we speak to god its called prayer....and when god speaks to us its called schizophrenia

[Cariad]

doesn't Portugal have a whole industry based on a "vision " at Fatima...an absolutely massive industry which has no more validity than the vision you attribute to Gerry.

So how would a psychiatrist evaluate the visions at Fatima as you raise this point...I think he would say...and I speak with some experience...when we speak to god its called prayer....and when god speaks to us its called schizophrenia

That reads as though you have experience of psychiatric intervention due to delusions! I don't think that that is what you meant at all. I'd clarify or delete if I were you, just to avoid any confusion.

[Mr Gray]

That reads as though you have experience of psychiatric intervention due to delusions! I don't think that that is what you meant at all. I'd clarify or delete if I were you, just to avoid any confusion.

 How would you like me to clarify the post?