The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.

[Mr Gray]

You should have seen that one coming.

 I haven't seen reliance on psychics...just a myth

[stephen25000]

I haven't seen reliance on psychics...just a myth

Ask Derek Acorah.

[Carana]

Pathetic post all in all and  you  wouldnt  be saying that if you had read all the facts in this case, which you  obviously havent..just tagging along with the Grime libellers...Coconut case ? Youre having a laugh....educate yourself before spouting..No, seriously do....your FIRST port of call should be, does Eddie trained in decomposing bodies react to vegetables..your second port of call should be that coconuts do not contain collagen which is only found in mammals, collagen was found in the sample, your third port of call should be, why was the sample switched.?..after being examined by an expert who said it was a skull to when it was returned and had shrunk in size and weight..lots of reading for you, enjoy...googles not bad...but if you have  time you can check out the video library here, find the video posted by John about eddie at Jersey and see my reply sbowing a video featuring the investigator in that case and what he said about THAT sample which has gotten everyones nickers in a twist

I disagree.

- I doubt that Eddie would bark at a piece of coconut, but he may have reacted to a scent within his parameters that happened to be on it or nearby. It was the humans who seemed to have a potential sensibility issue: it looked like it might be a significant find and Eddie barked, which was taken as corroboration prior to actual testing.

The archaeologist originally thought it was a fragment of human skull, but made a mistake. It's better to get it bagged and checked than discarding something potentially signficant, after all. If Harper had waited for the tests prior to announcing it to the media, it would just be a paragraph or so in the depths of a forensic report.

- "Why was it switched" ??? Wouldn't the measurements and weight have been logged by both the archaelogist when found and sent and by the lab when it arrived? Wouldn't a discrepancy have been noticed?

Isn't it more likely that a seed casing found in damp conditions had simply dried out?

Again, have a look at the Wiltshire inquiry:

It starts on p. 250.


5.6 Operation Rectangle Exhibit JAR/6 ‘human bone’

Here's the link:

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf

[Carana]

What's the truth on the 15 out of 19 DNA match found in the boot.

"Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match." (John Lowe - not the darts player I hope)

What does a chance match mean? How does that work?

There were 15 alleles out of 37 that coincided with hers. The question that he was attempting to explain was whether that fact meant that it was actually her DNA forensic profile (minus the missing components) or a mixture of alleles from family members, in particular, or even from strangers who would also share a number of the same allele values. And there were 3-5 contributors to that sample.

Unrelated strangers would most likely have at least 6-7 alleles in common with her (sometimes more, from what I've found).  These values are not unique to an individual, it's the combination of them in an uncontaminated sample that reduces the probability of a complete profile belonging to someone else. In this instance, there wasn't a complete profile and there were family members who had been in contact with the car (and possibly unrelated individuals), which makes the possibility of a chance combination even higher.

[Mr Gray]

Pathetic post all in all and  you  wouldnt  be saying that if you had read all the facts in this case, which you  obviously havent..just tagging along with the Grime libellers...Coconut case ? Youre having a laugh....educate yourself before spouting..No, seriously do....your FIRST port of call should be, does Eddie trained in decomposing bodies react to vegetables..your second port of call should be that coconuts do not contain collagen which is only found in mammals, collagen was found in the sample, your third port of call should be, why was the sample switched.?..after being examined by an expert who said it was a skull to when it was returned and had shrunk in size and weight..lots of reading for you, enjoy...googles not bad...but if you have  time you can check out the video library here, find the video posted by John about eddie at Jersey and see my reply sbowing a video featuring the investigator in that case and what he said about THAT sample which has gotten everyones nickers in a twist

 There was no collagen found in the sample jar6. It was a coconut shell and eddie alerted to it. This has to be a false alert.  As I understand from reading the link posted by carana...there were no human bones found either.

[Carana]

There was no collagen found in the sample jar6. It was a coconut shell and eddie alerted to it. This has to be a false alert.  As I understand from reading the link posted by carana...there were no human bones found either.

Eddie may have reacted correctly to something within his parameters (relevant or not) on or near the coconut fragment. I still think that the humans got it wrong.

[icabodcrane]

Am i Psychic probably not but I would predict 100per cent predict that IF the dogs alerted to the Murats car and the Murats house and drive way and clothes, all the doggy and handler doubters would be in their droves on here saying how WONDERFUL the dogs were, what clever doggies they were to finding the perb who took the child, with or without a body.....

and thats the sad truth..........say its not so all you doubters I wouldnt believe you anyway.

You can all spin it how you like it makes no difference the child is still missing, no body has been found, and no one has been charged with her death/abduction/kidnapping.

The post about the dogs and Amaral is like Ground Hog day. NOTHING NEW comes out of it, and it goes on and on blah blah blah.

POINTLESS exercise. Pointless thread. Cadaver dogs are still being used quite successfully and because of their usage even cold cases are now being closed.

The only   'point'   that can be  established is that the dog  MIGHT  not have been alerting to scent of the dead body of the missing child who was last seen in that apartment

Unless she is is found,  or evidence that she was alive when she disappeared is uncovered,  then it is simply not possible for anyone to say that the dog was  NOT  alerting to the scent of the dead body of the missing child

[Carana]

The only   'point'   that can be  established is that the dog  MIGHT  not have been alerting to scent of the dead body of the missing child who was last seen in that apartment

Unless she is is found,  or evidence that she was alive when she disappeared is uncovered,  then it is simply not possible for anyone to say that the dog was  NOT  alerting to the scent of the dead body of the missing child

I'd agree that it can't be totally excluded. It's always a possibility that he might have been right, whatever happened.

My issue is in assuming that he was correct, when there is no forensic evidence to support it; he may have been suggestible to his handler's own suggestibility (by that I mean that he may have been zooming in to concentrate on the tiniest indication - Swindell did say that they can get confused in a search in a peat bog as both give off methane);

- There doesn't seem to have been any in-depth analysis to exclude innocent possibilities for his reaction aside from asking whether anyone was aware of someone else having died there. None of the post-disappearance occupants were interviewed (at least not in the DVD files) ... and the last lot only left a week before the inspection.

[slartibartfast]

There was no collagen found in the sample jar6. It was a coconut shell and eddie alerted to it. This has to be a false alert.  As I understand from reading the link posted by carana...there were no human bones found either.

If I remember rightly, 3 pieces of human bone were found in the same place and there was also suggestion of infill from a cemetery.

[Mr Gray]

The only   'point'   that can be  established is that the dog  MIGHT  not have been alerting to scent of the dead body of the missing child who was last seen in that apartment

Unless she is is found,  or evidence that she was alive when she disappeared is uncovered,  then it is simply not possible for anyone to say that the dog was  NOT  alerting to the scent of the dead body of the missing child

 Bertrand Russell calls this a celestial teapot argument...that about sums it up

[pathfinder73]

Deleted - swab 3a but weak DNA result? Cleaned?

[ferryman]

Sep 06 2007 Interim Report:

The 'interim' report wasn't a report at all.

It was an email from John Lowe to Stuart Prior explaining a particular result from his (one and only!) report.

What else do you want explained?

[icabodcrane]

Bertrand Russell calls this a celestial teapot argument...that about sums it up

Don't know anything about that flim flam

I deal in facts,  and the fact is,  neither you, nor anyone else, can claim that when the dog alerted in apartment 5A  he was  NOT  alerting to the scent of the dead body of the missing child

You can't claim that 

[pathfinder73]

Sep 06 2007 Interim Report:

The 'interim' report wasn't a report at all.

It was an email from John Lowe to Stuart Prior explaining a particular result from his (one and only!) report.

What else do you want explained?

If 3a stain was washed/cleaned that may have produced the weak DNA result (15) and possible contamination with the cleaner DNA.

[Mr Gray]

Don't know anything about that flim flam

I deal in facts,  and the fact is,  neither you, nor anyone else, can claim that when the dog alerted in apartment 5A  he was  NOT  alerting to the scent of the dead body of the missing child

You can't claim that

you don't s deal in facts at all ...you deal in suppositions

By the same argument you use no one can say with certainty that maddie was not abducted by the CIA on the orders of obama