The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.

[icabodcrane]

Dog alerts could also be evidence in law- I have never denied that. Scientifically they do not have confirmative value- no addition to knowledge. Any judge in the UK would allow the defence to point out the unreliability of unconfirmed dog alerts and would have to warn the jury about the problem with such weak evidence.

Strange then,  isn't it,  that the McCanns' lawyers went as  far as scouring American case law in order to  cherry-pick anecdotal  'dog evidence'    (  and a pig's ear they made of it  too,  when they highlighted the Zapata case  )

Seems the McCanns,  and their top-notch briefs,  were not quite as convinced as you of the 'insignificance'  of the dog alerts

[Mr Gray]

Strange then,  isn't it,  that the McCanns' lawyers went as  far as scouring American case law in order to  cherry-pick anecdotal  'dog evidence'    (  and a pig's ear they made of it  too,  when they highlighted the Zapata case  )

Seems the McCanns,  and their top-notch briefs,  were not quite as convinced as you of the 'insignificance'  of the dog alerts

 that was very early on....they now understand the dogs alerts...unlike amaral

[EnolaStraight]

Strange then,  isn't it,  that the McCanns' lawyers went as  far as scouring American case law in order to  cherry-pick anecdotal  'dog evidence'    (  and a pig's ear they made of it  too,  when they highlighted the Zapata case  )

Seems the McCanns,  and their top-notch briefs,  were not quite as convinced as you of the 'insignificance'  of the dog alerts

What evidence do you have of such legal 'scouring'- source and references please.

Dog alerts used to be widely accepted in various US States. More recently their evidence has been gradually downgraded and excluded.

[Carew]

You do not understand either empiricism or logic.

Dog alerts as in this case make them poor conveyors of the truth by both logical and empirical problems.

Frustrating for you, but hang on in there.......Others will shape up to your satisfaction, no doubt.

In the meantime,  the dogs` alerts exist as intelligence gathered as part of the investigation. What is eventually deduced from them remains to be seen.



You cannot wish them away by terminology

[EnolaStraight]

Frustrating for you, but hang on in there.......Others will shape up to your satisfaction, no doubt.

In the meantime,  the dogs` alerts exist as intelligence gathered as part of the investigation. What is eventually deduced from them remains to be seen.



You cannot wish them away by terminology

It is not wishing them away. It is simply applying the rules of human knowledge correctly.

[Carew]

It is not wishing them away. It is simply applying the rules of human knowledge correctly.

............in order to try and make the positive alerts appear as of no more significance than than the non-alerts?

Maybe you should check what is motivating your zeal and persistence, if as you say, the alerts are so obviously of no value to the investigation to anyone with any logic and so forth.

Maybe you protest too much?

[Serendipity]

Strange then,  isn't it,  that the McCanns' lawyers went as  far as scouring American case law in order to  cherry-pick anecdotal  'dog evidence'    (  and a pig's ear they made of it  too,  when they highlighted the Zapata case  )

Seems the McCanns,  and their top-notch briefs,  were not quite as convinced as you of the 'insignificance'  of the dog alerts

 

Strange too that 18 month old Sean apparently developed a taste for sea bass which can produce cadaverine under some circumstances. Interesting research from March 2013 strongly suggests that cadaverine is not even a diamine that is detected by an EVRD and it also blows the myth that Eddie possibly alerted to urine, bad breath, semen or other substances out of the water.

The following is sourced from https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/315/1/Stadler_Sonja.pdf and is further supported here http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0039005

Cadaverine and putrescine are products of amino acid breakdown and were previously thought to be the main contributors of decomposition odour.  It was also beleived that these volatile compounds are a target for cadaver dogs.  However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines.  This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.

[Mr Gray]

............in order to try and make the positive alerts appear as of no more significance than than the non-alerts?

Maybe you should check what is motivating your zeal and persistence, if as you say, the alerts are so obviously of no value to the investigation to anyone with any logic and so forth.

Maybe you protest too much?

Its called "seeking the truth". It is annoying to see untruths posted and accepted on these types of forums...you just have to step in and correct people..its human nature

[Mr Gray]

Strange too that 18 month old Sean apparently developed a taste for sea bass which can produce cadaverine under some circumstances. Interesting research from March 2013 strongly suggests that cadaverine is not even a diamine that is detected by an EVRD and it also blows the myth that Eddie possibly alerted to urine, bad breath, semen or other substances out of the water.

The following is sourced from https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/315/1/Stadler_Sonja.pdf and is further supported here http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0039005

Cadaverine and putrescine are products of amino acid breakdown and were previously thought to be the main contributors of decomposition odour.  It was also beleived that these volatile compounds are a target for cadaver dogs.  However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines.  This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.

All of no significance after what Grime said about the evrd alerts

[Serendipity]

All of no significance after what Grime said about the evrd alerts

You know something, not once in all the cases that Martin and his dogs attended prior to May 2007 was he asked to place so much emphasis on corroborative forensics in a report despite the fact that the dogs had never been wrong ever.  But he was asked to emphasise in this case. Strange huh.

[stephen25000]

Its called "seeking the truth". It is annoying to see untruths posted and accepted on these types of forums...you just have to step in and correct people..its human nature

Not really.

He clearly has an agenda, but that we already know.

[Mr Gray]

You know something, not once in all the cases that Martin and his dogs attended prior to May 2007 was he asked to place so much emphasis on corroborative forensics in a report despite the fact that the dogs had never been wrong ever.  But he was asked to emphasise in this case. Strange huh.

 The dogs had never been wrong ever.....where have you got that from

[EnolaStraight]

You know something, not once in all the cases that Martin and his dogs attended prior to May 2007 was he asked to place so much emphasis on corroborative forensics in a report despite the fact that the dogs had never been wrong ever.  But he was asked to emphasise in this case. Strange huh.

Please provide cites for your assertion about the previous cases- not self assessment by the handler, but cites that can be verified.

[Serendipity]

The dogs had never been wrong ever.....where have you got that from

Horses mouth Dave.  Martin and Eddie didn't just attend homicide cases you know.  Many missing persons cases where Eddie would find the poor soul hanging from a tree etc.

[AnneGuedes]

However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines.  This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.

They develop in a later stage of decay.