Eddie's alert in the garden

[Benice]

So you are suggesting that a dog will alert to a forensically clean knife?

Not arguing for the sake of it, just pointing out the flaw in your case.

According to Martin Grime the dogs would alert to a vestige of blood so tiny that it could not been seen by the naked eye or be detected by forensic examination. 

[ferryman]

Part of the problem for some in Jersey was that the cadaver and CSI dogs failed to substantiate the claims made of numerous murders committed in the children's home and the burial of the victims within the grounds.

They did their job, they found human decomposition, but forensic study of the items proved that there was no evidence that the alleged murders had happened.

They alerted to the things they were trained to among which were ...

• the infamous tissues
• historic human bone
• milk teeth
• an area where human ashes had been scattered

It is no reflection on the dogs if they fail to find what isn't there to be found.

However, it may be a reflection on the dog that he reacted to a piece of wood or coconut.

I say maybe, because there might have been something (else) in the vicinity (of the search) within the dog's scent-range he actually reacted to.

In which case, that would be a reflection on the handler, for not having the dog screen the area beforehand for pre-existing scents, we know (from the corrupted record of the inspection at the gym) inspections are supposed to be carried out.

[Mr Gray]

However, it may be a reflection on the dog that he reacted to a piece of wood or coconut.

I say maybe, because there might have been something (else) in the vicinity (of the search) within the dog's scent-range he actually reacted to.

In which case, that would be a reflection on the handler, for not having the dog screen the area beforehand for pre-existing scents, we know (from the corrupted record of the inspection at the gym) inspections are supposed to be carried out.

for such a potentially important piece of evidence why didn't grime do a second test.....put the coconut in a bucket of sand and see if the dog reacts to it

[Brietta]

I think I started the move to Off Topic, so my fault ... please take us back into the garden folks.

[stephen25000]

for such a potentially important piece of evidence why didn't grime do a second test.....put the coconut in a bucket of sand and see if the dog reacts to it

Why would he have expected to find a piece of coconut buried in the ground ?

and can you tell me what kind of compounds coconuts would excrete in common with the decomposing remains of a body ?

[stephen25000]

I think I started the move to Off Topic, so my fault ... please take us back into the garden folks.

Perhaps we can do a secondary transfer to another thread.

[Mr Gray]

Why would he have expected to find a piece of coconut buried in the ground ?

and can you tell me what kind of compounds coconuts would excrete in common with the decomposing remains of a body ?

can you tell me it was the coconut fragment that eddie alerted to...no you cant...neither can Grime...the simplest thing to do would be to retest......intelligent people find simple solutions to problems

[stephen25000]

can you tell me it was the coconut fragment that eddie alerted to...no you cant...neither can Grime...the simplest thing to do would be to retest......intelligent people find simple solutions to problems

Well why don't you forward your request to the lab concerned, Kew Gardens forensic laboratory , by recollection.

Now if what I posted a few weeks ago is correct, the specimen was tested elsewhere by a non-standard procedure, and if true, has no value at all.

[Brietta]

Where is it positively stated Eddie alerted to anything in the garden.

Watching the video ... Martin Grime said he had shown some interest and it would need to be checked out ... but I never heard him saying anything about an alert.
Eddie's trained response seemed to be barking continually until ordered to stop ... we saw none of that.

Did any of the items recovered from the garden and sent off for forensic testing show any connection to or trace of Madeleine ... or was it just an elimination process as recommended by Martin Grime?

[Mr Gray]

Well why don't you forward your request to the lab concerned, Kew Gardens forensic laboratory , by recollection.

Now if what I posted a few weeks ago is correct, the specimen was tested elsewhere by a non-standard procedure, and if true, has no value at all.

and as I posted a simple visual exam....light microscope at best would have been enough and not the electron microscope as you suggested

[Mr Gray]

Where is it positively stated Eddie alerted to anything in the garden.

Watching the video ... Martin Grime said he had shown some interest and it would need to be checked out ... but I never heard him saying anything about an alert.
Eddie's trained response seemed to be barking continually until ordered to stop ... we saw none of that.

Did any of the items recovered from the garden and sent off for forensic testing show any connection to or trace of Madeleine ... or was it just an elimination process as recommended by Martin Grime?

the whole alert episode seems to be something of a shambles and that is part of the reason why no inferences can be drawn without forensic confirmation

[stephen25000]

and as I posted a simple visual exam....light microscope at best would have been enough and not the electron microscope as you suggested

So why didn't they do that ?

Surely standard procedure in a forensics laboratory.

 

[Brietta]

So why didn't they do that ?

Surely standard procedure in a forensics laboratory.

Off topic, Stephen, garden only please.

[Mr Gray]

So why didn't they do that ?

Surely standard procedure in a forensics laboratory.

from what i can conclude they were not asked to It does not seem to have been sent to a forensic lab it was sent to a university lab for carbon dating. The technician immediately realised it was not bone when he drilled it and the low level of nitrogen meant carbon dating was impossible

[G-Unit]

can you tell me it was the coconut fragment that eddie alerted to...no you cant...neither can Grime...the simplest thing to do would be to retest......intelligent people find simple solutions to problems

I think you're perhaps misunderstanding Grimes role. Just like with the Renault alerts in Luz it wasn't his job to be involved in the forensic recovery of evidence. I wouldn't expect him to be even there when the digging took place, his job was done when Eddie alerted. The recovery was in other hands; the forensic anthropologist was the expert on things found. It was up to him/her to ask for screening of the found item if they thought it was necessary.