So what are the various scenarios available to us?

[AnneGuedes]

its not impossible but improbable thats all

Leave from 5A, meet the Smith and come back is about 6 minutes. Not impossible.
More important is what noted Mr Smith in May 2007 : the uncomfortable way to carry the child. Though he didn't doubt they were father and child. I can find only one explanation to this. When Mr Smith saw the McCanns getting out of the plane, it was like the madeleine of Marcel Proust. I suppose everybody knows what this madeleine is.

[Mrs. B]

Oh, yes, that'd make sense, Gerry runs off carrying Madeliene, sees the Smith's & immediately runs BACK again (as there'd be no time for him to do ANYTHING else as he was seen a few minutes later in the garden of the OC). So what happened to the child then? Conveniently beamed up by Scotty to Starship Enterprise?

It's just an impossible scenario & the SY are perfectly right in discarding it as such.

[stephen25000]

Oh, yes, that'd make sense, Gerry runs off carrying Madeliene, sees the Smith's & immediately runs BACK again (as there'd be no time for him to do ANYTHING else as he was seen a few minutes later in the garden of the OC). So what happened to the child then? Conveniently beamed up by Scotty to Starship Enterprise?

It's just an impossible scenario & the SY are perfectly right in discarding it as such.

How do you know this 'child' was Madeleine ?

It's pure supposition.

[Lace]

Leave from 5A, meet the Smith and come back is about 6 minutes. Not impossible.
More important is what noted Mr Smith in May 2007 : the uncomfortable way to carry the child. Though he didn't doubt they were father and child. I can find only one explanation to this. When Mr Smith saw the McCanns getting out of the plane, it was like the madeleine of Marcel Proust. I suppose everybody knows what this madeleine is.

It is impossible !!

Can you imagine Gerry carrying Madeleine down to the beach area,   to go where??     to hide her where??   Remember the beach area was searched.

Then he would have to get back in time for Kate to make the alert.

Much much longer than six minutes.

[Lace]

How do you know this 'child' was Madeleine ?

It's pure supposition.

Well Amaral didn't think so.

[Mrs. B]

It is impossible !!

Can you imagine Gerry carrying Madeleine down to the beach area,   to go where??     to hide her where??   Remember the beach area was searched.

Then he would have to get back in time for Kate to make the alert.

Much much longer than six minutes.

According to Amaral's thesis, he apparently also had to dig a large hole in the sand for a temporary burial (with his bare hands). It's total & utter insanity.

[stephen25000]

According to Amaral's thesis, he apparently also had to dig a large hole in the sand for a temporary burial (with his bare hands). It's total & utter insanity.

Can you give me a link to where he says this ?

[faithlilly]

It is impossible !!

Can you imagine Gerry carrying Madeleine down to the beach area,   to go where??     to hide her where??   Remember the beach area was searched.

Then he would have to get back in time for Kate to make the alert.

Much much longer than six minutes.

If you turn right at the end of the road the carrier was seen on you are a very short distance from the OC and a body could be concealed along the way in a bin or abandoned building. Remember the searchers were looking for a live child, not a dead body.

[Benice]

If you turn right at the end of the road the carrier was seen on you are a very short distance from the OC and a body could be concealed along the way in a bin or abandoned building. Remember the searchers were looking for a live child, not a dead body.

It can't be a bin, because according to Amaral the body was collected 3 weeks later - and the bins would have been emptied long before then.      I would have thought 'abandoned buildings' would be the obvious places to look - especially by the locals who were searching.   

The idea that the McCanns,  (in the full glare of reporters - all of whom were desperate for 'copy'), would even entertain the idea of getting into their car to go down the road, park up, - retrieve the body from a building in PdL, then carry it out to the car, drive off somewhere else and then remove it from the boot,  hide/bury it, then get back into their car and calmly drive home is too ludicrous for words.   They would have to be stark staring mad to even think about doing that.

The man the Smith's saw wasn't Gerry - it was a physical impossibility - unless he was wearing a bright blue suit with a big yellow 'S' on the front and red underpants over his tights.   As far as I know no such outfit has been discovered in PdL....

[faithlilly]

It can't be a bin, because according to Amaral the body was collected 3 weeks later - and the bins would have been emptied long before then.      I would have thought 'abandoned buildings' would be the obvious places to look - especially by the locals who were searching.   

The idea that the McCanns,  (in the full glare of reporters - all of whom were desperate for 'copy'), would even entertain the idea of getting into their car to go down the road, park up, - retrieve the body from a building in PdL, then carry it out to the car, drive off somewhere else and then remove it from the boot,  hide/bury it, then get back into their car and calmly drive home is too ludicrous for words.   They would have to be stark staring mad to even think about doing that.

The man the Smith's saw wasn't Gerry - it was a physical impossibility - unless he was wearing a bright blue suit with a big yellow 'S' on the front and red underpants over his tights.   As far as I know no such outfit has been discovered in PdL....

I don't believe a body was ever in the Scenic to be honest and I think that Amaral has given the McCanns an ace card by hypothesising that it was because while the public are focusing on the impossibility of a body in the car their attention is being taken away from the very real possibility of a body in the apartment. This is apparent by time spent by supporters discussing the alerts connected to the car as opposed to the time spent discussing the apartment alerts, which are very much harder to dismiss.

As to the Smith sighting , I have walked the streets of PDL, I know what can be achieved in the timescale available and I know what is possible, if not probable and Gerry being the man the Smiths saw is absolutely possible.

[Benice]

I don't believe a body was ever in the Scenic to be honest and I think that Amaral has given the McCanns an ace card by hypothesising that it was because while the public are focusing on the impossibility of a body in the car their attention is being taken away from the very real possibility of a body in the apartment. This is apparent by time spent by supporters discussing the alerts connected to the car as opposed to the time spent discussing the apartment alerts, which are very much harder to dismiss.

As to the Smith sighting , I have walked the streets of PDL, I know what can be achieved in the timescale available and I know what is possible, if not probable and Gerry being the man the Smiths saw is absolutely possible.

So do you think Gerry was walking round the streets of PdL -  randomly looking for a place, or do you think he already knew of one?   If so, then how and when did he know of it?    Why would he choose 10 oclock at night to go walking off with the body, and risk being seen, (which apparently he was - by the Smiths )  when he could have done it in the middle of the night at his leisure?  It makes no sense Faith.  He is not a stupid man.

[faithlilly]

So do you think Gerry was walking round the streets of PdL -  randomly looking for a place, or do you think he already knew of one?   If so, then how and when did he know of it?    Why would he choose 10 oclock at night to go walking off with the body, and risk being seen, (which apparently he was - by the Smiths )  when he could have done it in the middle of the night at his leisure?  It makes no sense Faith.  He is not a stupid man.

If the man the Smith's saw was Gerry then I would think his choice of hiding place was practical rather than strategic, in that it was probably the first place he came across. The concealing of the body, if found, could be blamed on the abductor therefore I'm not sure that the place chosen was chosen for concealment in the longterm but simply to put distance between the McCanns and the body and to bolster the story of abduction.

As to removing the body at around 10pm rather than in the middle of the night there may be many reasons for this, among them :

1. Panicked reaction by McCanns.
2. If the body was found the time of death would be absolutely apparent so how would the McCanns explain that someone had abducted an already dead body ?
3. If seen it be much less conspicuous to be carrying around a child at 10pm when parents would be bringing their children from the crèche than in the early hours of the morning.

[AnneGuedes]

The police by this stage would have been stupid to not to consider   that Madeleine could have perhaps be deceased

The fact is they didn't, or at least it didn't pass their mind that a body could have been disposed of in a container (only days after, too late). Perpetrators usually don't bother doing that. But it passed UK experts' minds.

[AnneGuedes]

Quote from: Benice on Today at 11:52:46 AM
 It can't be a bin, because according to Amaral the body was collected 3 weeks later - and the bins would have been emptied long before then. 

"Because" ?
I reckon Inspector Amaral's hasty theory of body transfers has finally some utility !
Nothing of this happened, I'd bet my soul if I had one.
What happened was simple and radical or wasn't.

[AnneGuedes]

If the man the Smith's saw was Gerry then I would think his choice of hiding place was practical rather than strategic, in that it was probably the first place he came across. The concealing of the body, if found, could be blamed on the abductor therefore I'm not sure that the place chosen was chosen for concealment in the longterm but simply to put distance between the McCanns and the body and to bolster the story of abduction.

As to removing the body at around 10pm rather than in the middle of the night there may be many reasons for this, among them :

1. Panicked reaction by McCanns.
2. If the body was found the time of death would be absolutely apparent so how would the McCanns explain that someone had abducted an already dead body ?
3. If seen it be much less conspicuous to be carrying around a child at 10pm when parents would be bringing their children from the crèche than in the early hours of the morning.

This kind of act requires an enormous epinephrine release, crucial component of the fight-or-flight response.
I'll add rigor mortis a fortiori because it was chilly.