The Cracked Mirror.

[Angelo222]

Appears to me she is now just going with the flow....path of least resistance and all that.   She obviously had her suspicions at one stage for whatever reason but clearly also indicated that he wasn't bundleman.

[Angelo222]

Do you believe Murat was there Angelo, and if not why did several members of the group lie ?

Most certainly not and he has paid a hefty price because of the malicious insinuations made against him.  He wouldn't have offered his services for free the very same morning if he had been involved.

[faithlilly]

Most certainly not and he has paid a hefty price because of the malicious insinuations made against him.  He wouldn't have offered his services for free the very same morning if he had been involved.

So why do you think O'Brien, Payne and Oldfield lied ?

[DCI]

So why do you think O'Brien, Payne and Oldfield lied ?

Don't forget Sylvia Baptista, did she lie too?.

[Benice]

Most certainly not and he has paid a hefty price because of the malicious insinuations made against him.  He wouldn't have offered his services for free the very same morning if he had been involved.

No-one made malicious insinuations IMO.   Some people - and not just the three from the group, genuinely thought they saw him there. 

IMO it was either a case of mistaken identity or when he realised that the PJ were gunning for him he panicked and said he wasn't there at all rather than AFTER he heard the sirens going off.

I don't think Murat had anything to do with Madeleine's abduction and I believe his mother also knew that it was not possible for him to have had a part in it because he was with her up until they heard the sirens.

This is pure speculation on my part - but I can imagine that if a mother knew for definite - by the evidence of her own eyes,  that her son was with her at the time the abduction took place and she also knew all about the PJ 'robust' interviewing techniques, and her son  told her that he had got scared and told the police he was in the house all night,  then she might just agree to back him up on that.      From her POV she would not be interfering with the case in fact she would be removing a person whom she knew to be innocent from the equation. 

It's clear that Mrs Murat did know all about the fear of locals to contact the police because IIRC that's why she set up a table for them to anonymously leave any information.

Those from the group who were sure they saw him on the night of the 3rd did not back down when they had a face to face meeting with him over this.  That means they were prepared to look him in the eye and say 'I saw you there'.   

[Angelo222]

So why do you think O'Brien, Payne and Oldfield lied ?

I never said they lied.   Remember there was another guy who looked like him who tended to be around the resort.


_{Lookalikes: Robert Murat (left) and Angus Symington (right) are the same build and height, both British and both working in property in Praia da Luz.}

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1606.0

[DCI]

No-one made malicious insinuations IMO.   Some people - and not just the three from the group, genuinely thought they saw him there. 

IMO it was either a case of mistaken identity or when he realised that the PJ were gunning for him he panicked and said he wasn't there at all rather than AFTER he heard the sirens going off.

I don't think Murat had anything to do with Madeleine's abduction and I believe his mother also knew that it was not possible for him to have had a part in it because he was with her up until they heard the sirens.

This is pure speculation on my part - but I can imagine that if a mother knew for definite - by the evidence of her own eyes,  that her son was with her at the time the abduction took place and she also knew all about the PJ 'robust' interviewing techniques, and her son  told her that he had got scared and told the police he was in the house all night,  then she might just agree to back him up on that.      From her POV she would not be interfering with the case in fact she would be removing a person whom she knew to be innocent from the equation. 

It's clear that Mrs Murat did know all about the fear of locals to contact the police because IIRC that's why she set up a table for them to anonymously leave any information.

Those from the group who were sure they saw him on the night of the 3rd did not back down when they had a face to face meeting with him over this.  That means they were prepared to look him in the eye and say 'I saw you there'.   

Yes, didn't Amaral tell him, he would get him?

One little niggle I have, is,  Murat lives in a seperate house to his mother, so how would she know his every move?

[DCI]

I never said they lied.   Remember there was another guy who looked like him who tended to be around the resort.


_{Lookalikes: Robert Murat (left) and Angus Symington (right) are the same build and height, both British and both working in property in Praia da Luz.}

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1606.0

That is Murats cousin, Angelo!

[AnneGuedes]

I never said they lied.   Remember there was another guy who looked like him who tended to be around the resort.

When they confirmed they saw him they knew he denied being there. They should have been careful before repeating it was him. But they had the advantage of the number : three against one, isn't it ? How would you qualify their insistence without expressing a doubt ?

[ferryman]

David Payne was another 'dead-ringer' look-alike for Robert Murat.

[Redblossom]

I never said they lied.   Remember there was another guy who looked like him who tended to be around the resort.


_{Lookalikes: Robert Murat (left) and Angus Symington (right) are the same build and height, both British and both working in property in Praia da Luz.}

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1606.0

It cant have been a case of mistaken identity if what they said in their statements was true, seeing as two of them, Fiona and Rachel  said Murat introduced himself by name and the other, Russell  said he saw and spoke to him that night and approached him later or the next morning to get his phone number put on his mobile.

ETA Ferryman Murat looks nothing like Payne, he (DP) has a very receding hairline and if he (DP) looks like anyone its more John Hill, the Ocean Club manager. But that doesnt matter for the reason above, provided the T3 were telling the truth which is a bit hard to believe seeing as all the GNR that they reckon were either with /speaking to Murat or near Murat and the other people there who he alledgedly translated for that night, and people who actually knew him, none of these made any mention of anything like this

[AnneGuedes]

No-one made malicious insinuations IMO.   Some people - and not just the three from the group, genuinely thought they saw him there. 

"malicious" is a gentle word and "genuinely" is acceptable for the first time, not the second !
Silvia B wasn't sure. So it was just the three of them, as they insisted, who were confronted to Mr Murat ! They remained on their position. Their conscience wasn't even disturbed... Weird individuals.

[faithlilly]

Yes, didn't Amaral tell him, he would get him?

One little niggle I have, is,  Murat lives in a seperate house to his mother, so how would she know his every move?

So you can't contemplate O'Brien, Payne and Oldfield lying but you can insinuate that Murat and his mother were.

[AnneGuedes]

This is pure speculation on my part - but I can imagine that if a mother knew for definite - by the evidence of her own eyes,  that her son was with her at the time the abduction took place and she also knew all about the PJ 'robust' interviewing techniques, and her son  told her that he had got scared and told the police he was in the house all night,  then she might just agree to back him up on that.      From her POV she would not be interfering with the case in fact she would be removing a person whom she knew to be innocent from the equation. 

Would you so easily speculate a similar kind of protection given for the good cause in respect of Ms Tanner ? Could you imagine she erased the face of the carrier because that face looked like Mr McCann's one and she just couldn't imagine Mr McCann abducting his own child ?
The good cause here would be to prevent the police from being misled.
So she 1) erases the face, 2) chooses for her (real) sighting a time when Mr McCann was chatting with an independent witness and 3) changes the direction from East to West into West to East.

[Redblossom]

You've taken that comment out of context.  They were talking about the others seeing Murat on the 3rd and that comment was in relation to that conversation.

 Jane's immediate comment before that was''I don't think it was him that I saw''.    So it makes no sense for her to contradict herself in the next sentence.

If the interviewing police officer thought that comment was Jane saying she thought Murat was the man she saw carrying away a child -  then the line of questioning immediately following would have reflected that - and in some depth too.   The fact that it didn't should tell you that you've drawn the wrong conclusions from the comment.

The only person who has claimed JT identified Murat as the abductor is Amaral - and that was a downright lie.

So what did she mean by, *I just thought that it was?*

Must admit its very hard to make head or tail what she is talking about from that rogatory script. She is obviously saying at some stage she thought it was him, is she referring to him being there that night? like the others had? Or is she referring to him as the man she saw with a child?

And do you think Mr Amaral when writing about the van surveillance exercise with Bob Small, he totally fabricated the words *she recognised him from the way he walked*? Or was it a total misunderstanding?