Author Topic: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.  (Read 55526 times)

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Offline DCI

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #135 on: August 04, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »
To search you have to be sure there's something to find.
The McCanns don't seem to have been convinced an alive Madeleine could be found. Eventually over the boarders, the seas, the solar system..
Would have all those benevolent searchers done what they did if they had been told Madeleine had been abducted ? See Mr Mackenzie's reaction when he heard Mr McCann speak of paedo gang on the phone.

Nothing wrong with his reaction. He say's "I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off", taken into context with he had heard, makes a big difference.

It was later that evening around 10 ' 11 that I heard a commotion on the complex, I decided to go out and see what was going on. I walked round a saw a group of people gathered. John Hill the resort manager was there with some of the Mark Warner staff. I heard that a little girl called Maddie was missing, at that point I did not realise which child it was. John Hill was organising a search of the complex as it was thought that she had wandered off at that point in time. I let (my wife) know what was going on and went to join the search. I went to search the area around the back of our apartment where there is a little garden with a big palm tree in the middle. I was looking in the shrubbery and the little gardens to the apartments.

I worked my way around the area, eventually coming around the back of the tennis courts and up towards what I now know to be the McCanns apartment a couple of hours later. I was looking in the little gardens on the poolside of that block, I was in the end garden when I heard a male voice, he sounded distraught his voice cracking with emotion. I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. I cannot recall his exact words but I got the impression that he was speaking to perhaps a family member or someone he was very close to due to the nature of his conversation.

He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.

I had looked up by now and we actually made eye contact, his conversation did not change at all when he realised that I was there. I felt as if I were intruding on a private moment and so I left the garden at that point. I had overheard only a snippet of it. It was only then that I realised whose child it was that was missing. I went back to the apartment to tell my wife what had happened, had a drink and went out again. [/b]
There were lots of people just standing round looking, the police eventually turned up later in the evening. There didn't seem to be any real organisation of the searching and I eventually went back to our apartment for the night.

We went to the Millennium restaurant for breakfast the following morning, they were handing out flyers with her photograph on. Everyone was very, very upset.

The following day we saw Kate McCann when she came to collect the twins from the creche at lunchtime, she was distraught and broke down sobbing.

We didn't have any other involvement with their group for the remainder of our holiday and flew home on the Saturday. On the day of our departure we had to move out of our apartment and Mark Warner gave us another to use during the day until we left.

It was across the road from the McCann's apartment and the public balcony overlooked the side of their building and the road. You could actually see the front and back of the building from that view point. I noticed on the balcony that there was a pile of cigarette butts as if there had been someone stood there for some time smoking. I thought that was odd , and it could have been someone watching the McCann's apartment to monitor their comings and goings.

It was when I heard that the police were trying to pinpoint telephone conversations made in the resort that I decided to get in touch about what
I had heard. Signed

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

More cigarette butts not checked for evidence!
When Gerry made that call, there would have been GNR, probably Sylvia Baptista and others around. He obviously wasn't trying to hide what he was saying.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 09:30:46 PM by DCI »
Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #136 on: August 04, 2013, 10:08:36 PM »
Yes, like Kate asking her auntie that night to cancel  the tescos online shop delivery for Saturday! great priority over doing something to get her twins checked out if she was looking for signs of life! as she says.
Or ringing her friends family and priest in the UK as if they was going to help find Maddie.Meanwhile never going out to look because it was too cold and dark! Some posts do take the biscuit here sometimes.

Couldn't reply sooner as I had to go out. So tell me where kate says she didn't go out because it was too cold and dark. I still think you are telling lies but will apologise if I am found to be wrong.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #137 on: August 04, 2013, 10:19:46 PM »
Pardon? come again? You think phoning relatives or friends or sleeping is more important than checking to see if your twin children have been sedated with God knows what, which could do heaven knows what to them?

Really?

And you find my theories ridiculous. Pot, kettle black there, but of course you do not provide any answers as to what precisely could be described as "ridiculous".

Shall i tell you want doesn't make sense? Thinking your children have been sedated by an abductor but then not getting them medically checked out to make sure they are ok. That doesn't make sense.

Why should they mention sedation? Perhaps as a way to cover the suspicion as to why the twins didn't wake up, knowing that if the twins were actually checked out and it was found they had been sedated, they had got their defence in early.

We keep going through all this. Let us see what happens with the investigation. It's taking them a while to bring in those abductors though isn't it? Even those "persons of interest" who were supposedly being "swooped on" weeks ago. What happened to them?

Who is abusing them? We are simply to quote Gerry McCann "purporting a theory" which Gerry tells us as he has no problem with.

And after all these questions about them are still being asked becasue they killed the investigation before their version of events could be clarified by the PJ.

Had they actively participated and allowed the PJ to move forward then they wouldn't have this weight of suspicion against them.

I think kate was quite capable of checking if the twins were in any danger re sedation, ie pulse and respiration rate being normal.
the mcCanns didn't kill the investigation. that's just your opinion and you are wrong to sate it as a fact. In my opinion the investigation failed because the PJ were incompetent. they made the McCanns arguidos, giving them the right not to answer questions and were surprised when kate stopped answerring questions. The PJ had decided the MccCanns were guilty. The McCanns had co operated fully with the PJ but stopped when they were told they were suspects, nothing abnormal in that, in my opinion.Again, in case you have not noticed, SY do not consider the MccAnns as suspects

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #138 on: August 04, 2013, 11:04:16 PM »
as suspects of abduction.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #139 on: August 04, 2013, 11:08:26 PM »
as suspects of abduction.

NO You are making things up. the McCanns are not suspects in the SY investigation. get used to it.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2013, 11:22:42 PM »
They say so, you say so... fine !
The AG found no evidence to determine the crime. If, hopefully, the Yard finds evidence, then what you say , what they say will be true. Or not.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2013, 11:28:40 PM »
They say so, you say so... fine !
The AG found no evidence to determine the crime. If, hopefully, the Yard finds evidence, then what you say , what they say will be true. Or not.

So the McCanns were prime suspects, but there was no evidence of a crime.
The McCanns failed to demonstrate their innocence...of what... there was no evidence of a crime
 I think Portugal need to let SY take over.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #142 on: August 05, 2013, 12:54:55 AM »
So the McCanns were prime suspects, but there was no evidence of a crime.
The McCanns failed to demonstrate their innocence...of what... there was no evidence of a crime
 I think Portugal need to let SY take over.
I didn't say "there was no evidence of a crime". Please correct !

Offline Chinagirl

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #143 on: August 05, 2013, 12:57:56 AM »
So the McCanns were prime suspects, but there was no evidence of a crime.
The McCanns failed to demonstrate their innocence...of what... there was no evidence of a crime
 I think Portugal need to let SY take over.

Indeed, Davel.  The sheer absurdity and pointlessness of the "sceptics" stance is summed up in your comment. 
A

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #144 on: August 05, 2013, 01:10:11 AM »
Indeed, Davel.  The sheer absurdity and pointlessness of the "sceptics" stance is summed up in your comment.
I'm amazed, Chinagirl, that you caution someone who reduces my "The AG found no evidence to determine the crime" to "there was no evidence of a crime."


Offline Chinagirl

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #145 on: August 05, 2013, 01:15:04 AM »
So, Anne - what is THE crime you think the McCanns are guilty (or at least suspected) of committing?
A

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #146 on: August 05, 2013, 01:33:09 AM »
So, Anne - what is THE crime you think the McCanns are guilty (or at least suspected) of committing?
Chinagirl, as the AG said, the nature of the crime that resulted in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann couldn't be determined. This appears to me as being the main issue (and the only interesting one). I find the hypothesis of abduction from bed highly implausible, but I don't reject the abduction from public space.

Offline Chinagirl

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #147 on: August 05, 2013, 01:44:08 AM »
Chinagirl, as the AG said, the nature of the crime that resulted in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann couldn't be determined. This appears to me as being the main issue (and the only interesting one). I find the hypothesis of abduction from bed highly implausible, but I don't reject the abduction from public space.

I agree with the first part of your comment - the non-determination of the crime.  So, how then, can the McCanns be suspects in an undetermined crime?  And I agree that this is,indeed, the main issue.

I can accept your scepticism of abduction from her bed (although I don't agree with you).  You seem to suggest that she may have been "abducted" while outside the apartment.  I have some difficulty with that.

However, I applaud you for stating your position, though I wonder why it took so long and so many devious posts! 
A

AnneGuedes

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Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #148 on: August 05, 2013, 02:24:46 AM »
I agree with the first part of your comment - the non-determination of the crime.  So, how then, can the McCanns be suspects in an undetermined crime?  And I agree that this is,indeed, the main issue.

I can accept your scepticism of abduction from her bed (although I don't agree with you).  You seem to suggest that she may have been "abducted" while outside the apartment.  I have some difficulty with that.

However, I applaud you for stating your position, though I wonder why it took so long and so many devious posts!
I'm afraid you misunderstood me.
The PJ, under the control of the MP (it's like this in Portugal, the police hasn't the powers of the UK police), had to contemplate all types of crime, as listed in the AG's final report. One of them was accidental death, following the EVRD's alerts who constituted intelligence if not evidence. In this perspective the McCanns became persons of interest. I find it reasonable.
Of all possible crimes, the abduction from bed, the only one according to the McCanns, is also the only one that exonerates them totally, the latter explaining the first. Having (yet) no evidence to support it, this doxa is nothing but an hypothesis.
Like you I have some difficulty with the abduction from the public area, perhaps not for the same reasons.
But there are many more hypotheses.
My objective hasn't changed since I popped up in this forum : understand.

Offline Luz

Re: The suggestion that the kids may have been sedated issue.
« Reply #149 on: August 05, 2013, 06:54:31 AM »
No dear, kate mccann brought up  the drugging from early on, she did NOTHING about it, nothing to do  with any part of amarals  theory months later

Kate McCann brought the question of sedation and analysis to Ricardo Paiva 4 months later, after the twins had had a very short hair cut, as Gerald McCann announced in his blog.