Author Topic: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!  (Read 56951 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 04:00:20 PM »
Do you call 11 months quite soon, Anne?

Proceedings to make Madeleine a ward of court began in 2007.


http://www.iflg.uk.com/documents/7_july_08_address.pdf
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:13:44 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline DCI

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 04:02:48 PM »
Madeleine was made a ward of court in the summer of 2007.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court.

1

IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Judgement of Mrs Justice Hogg at the High Court, Family Division, RCJ, London,

7th July 2008, in open court

Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was

holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent

Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention.
They

sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine.

I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward.

At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it

is presumed Madeleine is alive.

She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here.

The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and

documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in

their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties

were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today.

The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s

parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their

solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief

resume of the information given.

The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order

being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so.

I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and

reasonably throughout.

I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that

the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to

withdraw the balance of their application.

I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22

May 2007 shall be varied with the words:

“The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any

other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the

evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain

confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his

evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May

2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be

disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the

Court or further Order of the Court”.

It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing

their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear

any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered

enough, and I wished to ease their burden.

I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal

and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine.

2

I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further

enquiries can be made.

There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she

may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for

Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure

with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling

of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether

that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God.

I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come

forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well.

I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court.

The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.[/left]

PRACTICE DIRECTION 12F – INTERNATIONAL CHILD ABDUCTION

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_12f
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:28:38 PM by DCI »
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 04:13:15 PM »
A child isn't a commodity Eleanor.  My own view is that the question is academic in any event as she is more than likely and in all probability no longer with us.

Which is it, in your opinion, Angelo?  Madeleine does not belong to her parents?  Or Madeleine is dead?

As it happens children do belong to their parents, despite not being a commodity.  But I doubt that you want to take me on about that because it is a legal fact.

Offline Lace

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 06:03:00 PM »
I don't expect Madeleine to be reunited with her parents straight away, of course not.   Six years have gone by since she was with them last.

I doubt if she will remember them,  though maybe things might come back to her in time.

It will be a very traumatic time for Madeleine, up rooted again after six years,  but no way would she be able to stay with the people who have  her.

I don't understand what you mean by the remark that the McCann's had difficulty with Madeleine before she went missing CPN.

Would it be the remark that Madeleine screamed for attention when the twins arrived?
If so,  then I wouldn't call that anything to worry about as it is natural for children especially ones who have had all the attention and love before another sibling arrived on the scene [in this case two]  to want the attention they are being denied.   In fact I would worry if the child didn't protest as it would show that it wasn't missing anything.

With the best will in the world,  no parents can prepare a child for a new siblings arrival,  they will miss having all the attention,  and it is normal.
I

Offline Carana

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 06:12:56 PM »
I think I've already made it clear in my (rather long!) post, John - there are many, many aspects to consider and I have outlined a number of them.  No decision will be simple, but the over-riding principle is usually that the welfare of the child is paramount.  As I said, Madeleine is, as far as I am aware, a Ward of Court, so any decision should be taken by the court with the GAL having considerable input, taking all aspects into account.  Of one thing I am sure, it is not as simple as saying " here she is, go home Madeleine"  That would be a recipe for one very confused girl (IMO)

Hello CPN

I've wondered about these issues as well. I agree with quite a few of your points in your long post earlier.

Even if she were found alive tomorrow, I doubt that she will be whisked off home on the next plane. It may take time, but I've no doubt that the McCanns have had expert on advice on this.

It may take time to slowly acclimatise her in the most helpful way possible for her and the family as a whole, particularly as she was so young and she's been away for so long.

It might mean that she and her family are slowly reintroduced to each other, perhaps in the country in which she is found, and may even need to learn each other's languages if English is no longer her mother tongue.

Her family has waited so long, it seems hard to imagine that an initial reunion may not be a Hollyhoodian joyful scene of jumping into each others' arms, but a much slower process.

I've no doubt that every necessary expert will jump into gear if she is found and will be listening acutely to her needs.

The first thing is to find her.


AnneGuedes

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 06:23:03 PM »
Proceedings to make Madeleine a ward of court began in 2007.


http://www.iflg.uk.com/documents/7_july_08_address.pdf
Thanks, Faithlilly. The process took time, for sure, since it started on the 17th of May. I wonder who advised this and why.
When reading CPN's post I thought "finally I understand why Madeleine was made a WOC".
Has anyone an idea ?

Offline Carana

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 06:24:26 PM »
(snip)
I don't understand what you mean by the remark that the McCann's had difficulty with Madeleine before she went missing CPN.

Would it be the remark that Madeleine screamed for attention when the twins arrived?
If so,  then I wouldn't call that anything to worry about as it is natural for children especially ones who have had all the attention and love before another sibling arrived on the scene [in this case two]  to want the attention they are being denied.   In fact I would worry if the child didn't protest as it would show that it wasn't missing anything.

With the best will in the world,  no parents can prepare a child for a new siblings arrival,  they will miss having all the attention,  and it is normal.
I

That is one of the points that I didn't understand in CPN's post, either.

Offline Carana

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 06:26:03 PM »
Thanks, Faithlilly. The process took time, for sure, since it started on the 17th of May. I wonder who advised this and why.
When reading CPN's post I thought "finally I understand why Madeleine was made a WOC".
Has anyone an idea ?

To facilitate legal processes?

Offline DCI

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 06:35:31 PM »
To facilitate legal processes?

Yes, shame they can't read it in the proper context, isn't it.
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2013, 06:42:08 PM »
I expect that Madeleine will be reunited almost immediately with her natural family.  And I cannot think of one sensible reason for why she should not be.  Although I do expect that The McCanns will have some help.

I see absolutely no purpose in subjecting Madeleine to a void with people who do not know her, no matter how well meaning.

AnneGuedes

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2013, 06:44:38 PM »
I'd have understood that once they were arguidos it was healthier to make Madeleine a WOC. But finally the proceedings had the purpose to obtain the LC files..

Offline Carana

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2013, 06:50:24 PM »
I'd have understood that once they were arguidos it was healthier to make Madeleine a WOC. But finally the proceedings had the purpose to obtain the LC files..

Does this help?

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent

Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They

sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine.


AnneGuedes

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2013, 06:56:49 PM »
No, Carana, it doesn't help, it doesn't explain neither why the process was needed (since she wasn't abducted by one of her parents) and if it was why it took such a long time nor why Madeleine's parents should stop having the entire parental authority concerning her.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2013, 07:14:14 PM »
No, Carana, it doesn't help, it doesn't explain neither why the process was needed (since she wasn't abducted by one of her parents) and if it was why it took such a long time nor why Madeleine's parents should stop having the entire parental authority concerning her.

The McCanns haven't stopped having parental responsibility.  You obviously do not understand what it means.  It is simply to ensure that Madeline will be immediate returned to UK and her parents.  Madeline cannot be held by some other country,  no matter for what reason.
It is really very simple.

AnneGuedes

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Re: Will Madeleine want to come home? Chances are she won't even speak English!
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2013, 07:19:30 PM »
I said parental authority.