Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[pathfinder73]

Pamela Fenn - 75 minutes without checking.

[misty]

But Misty the amateur creche you are supporting had a carer to child ratio of ... minus infinity

Are you referring to the report or the Tapas 9?

[pegasus]

Are you referring to the report or the Tapas 9?

The report emphasises the importance of carer:child ratio Misty.

[misty]

The report emphasises the importance of carer:child ratio Misty.

Did you miss this part? ----

" At Mark Warner, the BBC reporter was asked to accompany and supervise young children on a sailing trip without enough safety helmets for all the children, and take young children into the water without any assessment of her swimming ability. Also, at the Mark Warner resort in Egypt, a room listening service designed to check on children every 30 minutes whilst their parents are out, was found to be inappropriate because the staff could only listen at the door – they couldn't see if the children were all right or go into the rooms. Indeed, a Mark Warner nanny told the BBC undercover journalist that before the journalist arrived in April 07, a girl under the age of five had escaped through the window of a room and was found wandering around the complex within metres of the pool."
                                                                     

[mercury]

Pamela Fenn - 75 minutes without checking.

Yes, surprised no one had a go at her for not checking!!

[pegasus]

no its Lemnos

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/sun-holidays/greece/lemnos-beach/childcare
Click on "free evening activities"
Read the bit about the "Supervised Evening Listening Service"

[pegasus]

From BBC program:
"... staff could only listen at the door – they couldn't see if the children were all right or go into the rooms ..."       

@Misty During restaurant dinners these 5 evenings Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu there must have been at least 4 checks per evening so in total about 20 checks of this child back at the apartment. How many of those 20 odd checks were visual (checker actually sees child)?

[pegasus]

Yes, surprised no one had a go at her for not checking!!

Do you know who did check eventually Merc?

[pegasus]

From BBC program, about a resort in Egypt
"a girl under the age of five had escaped through the window of a room and was found wandering around the complex within metres of the pool."
Precisely Misty, this highlights the possibility that a home-alone child may possibly go to look for the parents if the child thinks they are nearby. Did the child in PDL know the parents were only 90 metres walk away at the Tapas restaurant?

[G-Unit]

From BBC program, about a resort in Egypt
"a girl under the age of five had escaped through the window of a room and was found wandering around the complex within metres of the pool."
Precisely Misty, this highlights the possibility that a home-alone child may possibly go to look for the parents if the child thinks they are nearby. Did the child in PDL know the parents were only 90 metres walk away at the Tapas restaurant?

Obviously any hiccups such as the above are kept quiet by these companies if possible. The parents probably got a refund on the price of their holiday. I would guess that the companies may have some small print somewhere too, along the lines of 'at your own risk'. They're mad if they don't, given the risks.

Perhaps the parents answered Madeleine on Thursday morning by telling her where they were and that the patio door wasn't locked? They wouldn't admit to that publicly obviously. That would explain Kate's discomfort about the open door that evening as reported by her friends.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Thanks Misty.  Right at the top.  I went with the following ... as you can see the dates here don't tally with the actual dates of the discussion ...


Anyone been to Mark Warner in Lemnos | Mumsnet Discussion

www.mumsnet.com › Topics › Travel advice
30 Mar 2009 - How sad that Ro seems to have a less than glowing report for Mark Warner Lemnos ... For tired parents with young children who need a holiday it's ideal, one can ..... Baby listening service worked well, they really do check your door every 15 ...
 
Anyone done a mark warner with kids?   14 Apr 2009

Baby listening   8 Nov 2008
Has anyone been to Mark Warner - Lakitira, Kos/Greece Resort ...17 Oct 2008
Anyone got any experience of SN children and Mark Warner ... 10 Oct 2008

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Ofcourse, thi s is all by the by because paretns have the FULL responsibility for their children no one else. If yu take your child to Disneyland and they trip over a piee of paper wo's fault is that? Disneys? the person who left the paper on the ground, the child for not looking where he/she was going?

Lawyers would argue Disney because they have cash!   Parent should always risk assess on behalf of their child.

[Eleanor]

TOPIC.  PLURLEASE.

[Miss Taken Identity]

TOPIC.  PLURLEASE.

oh.. and oops  I have a bandage on my poor lil hand >cliff walking!

back on topic...

The parents were responsible for their childs safety. They were not close enough and could not see the apartment doors or windows where the children slept and as has been shown, their child minding baby listening service did not work. no matter how many nights before it did work....

[misty]

From BBC program, about a resort in Egypt
"a girl under the age of five had escaped through the window of a room and was found wandering around the complex within metres of the pool."
Precisely Misty, this highlights the possibility that a home-alone child may possibly go to look for the parents if the child thinks they are nearby. Did the child in PDL know the parents were only 90 metres walk away at the Tapas restaurant?

What it actually highlights is that MW Listening Service was no better than the checking service done by the McCanns themselves.
Had the child in Egypt drowned in the pool, would we still be speaking about his/her "negligent" parents even one year on? Of course not.
Legally, a listening service is OK. It's OK if someone is patrolling a round route of 800m in a 15-20min period and only listening at each designated window once, briefly, during each round. So why isn't it OK for a parent to be no more than 50-100m away & return to the room to perform a more adequate check?
I don't believe Madeleine did know where her parents were eating. Had she done, she wouldn't have settled down to sleep imo.

[Miss Taken Identity]

What it actually highlights is that MW Listening Service was no better than the checking service done by the McCanns themselves.
Had the child in Egypt drowned in the pool, would we still be speaking about his/her "negligent" parents even one year on? Of course not.
Legally, a listening service is OK. It's OK if someone is patrolling a round route of 800m in a 15-20min period and only listening at each designated window once, briefly, during each round. So why isn't it OK for a parent to be no more than 50-100m away & return to the room to perform a more adequate check?
I don't believe Madeleine did know where her parents were eating. Had she done, she wouldn't have settled down to sleep imo.

reply to red quote,

Why leave the door unlocked? The service the McCANNS provided has evidenced it was bad. If MW had an even better service then leaving the door unlocked would still result in the same? would windows still be jemmied? would there have been a different outcome?

• The parents didn't hear shutters /windows being jemmied
  The parents didn't see  or hear an abductor

because they were too far away and out of sight and earshot. Is this still being debated?