Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[sadie]

All sorts of Chinese whispers coming from all sorts of places - a bit like the paedophile abduction theory - perhaps that is another Chinese whisper?  The billowing curtains - the 'whoosh' of air - the empty bed at which point Kate 'just knew' what had happened.  Must have been a giant crystal ball in the room at the time.

Cuddlecat left, and up high I believe.  Windows and shutter opened that Madeleine would neither have been able to do, nor known how to open.  Bedclothes under the window not disturbed, yet Madeleine could not have reached the window without the bed!  No sign of fibres or scrazing as Madeleine "fell" or Jumped to the ground.

Come on, be realistic.  Any intelligent parent would work that out and The Mccanns are not lacking in intelligence.  The obvious scenario is peadophile, or a very slight chance of stolen child for adoption or for other unsavoury purposes, which I am not going into.


The leaving of Cuddlecat tells it all.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Cuddlecat left, and up high I believe.  Windows and shutter opened that Madeleine would neither have been able to do, nor known how to open.  Bedclothes under the window not disturbed, yet Madeleine could not have reached the window without the bed!  No sign of fibres or scrazing as Madeleine "fell" or Jumped to the ground.

Come on, be realistic.  Any intelligent parent would work that out and The Mccanns are not lacking in intelligence.  The obvious scenario is peadophile, or a very slight chance of stolen child for adoption or for other unsavoury purposes, which I am not going into.


The leaving of Cuddlecat tells it all.

I agree, Sadie. Not proof of anything, but highly suggestive of Madeleine not leaving that room of her own accord.

[AnneGuedes]

I agree, Sadie. Not proof of anything, but highly suggestive of Madeleine not leaving that room of her own accord.

It really doesn't seem she left her bed at all, unless someone tidied it up after but why ?

[AnneGuedes]

Clarification required - what I meant to write was the Mark Warner representative who commented on the disappearance. He appeared to be a voice of logic, reason and calm in the face of a storm of hype, hysteria and (dare I say it?) myths. Interestingly, he was very swiftly ignored - guess his view point did not fit certain agendas.

It's interesting to observe that John Hill's remark that there was no sign of breaking-in was in some newspapers, last edition of the 4th of May. The remark was almost at the end of the articles, a part that is less read. And, especially because the manager of the resort was expected to defend security at all costs, denying the breaking-in worked as a confirmation of the rumour of "jemmied shutters/window", a curious phenomenon that has been studied thoroughly.

[Sherlock Holmes]

It really doesn't seem she left her bed at all, unless someone tidied it up after but why ?

Very odd, isn't it.

I am reading Kate's book for homework and have a couple of ideas, but will think on it more before posting.

[AnneGuedes]

Very odd, isn't it.

I am reading Kate's book for homework and have a couple of ideas, but will think on it more before posting.

At home Madeleine had her own bedroom and went to bed half an hour after her siblings.
I find it hard to believe that she accepted easily to renounce to both her privileges.

[Sherlock Holmes]

At home Madeleine had her own bedroom and went to bed half an hour after her siblings.
I find it hard to believe that she accepted easily to renounce to both her privileges.

Well she was exhausted that day and went to bed earlier than usual.

As for going into a different room..

[AnneGuedes]

Well she was exhausted that day and went to bed earlier than usual.

As for going into a different room..

The cleaning lady said she saw one (or two ?) cots in the south bedroom. That was denied.

[Mr Gray]

It's interesting to observe that John Hill's remark that there was no sign of breaking-in was in some newspapers, last edition of the 4th of May. The remark was almost at the end of the articles, a part that is less read. And, especially because the manager of the resort was expected to defend security at all costs, denying the breaking-in worked as a confirmation of the rumour of "jemmied shutters/window", a curious phenomenon that has been studied thoroughly.

 But there were never any gemmied shutters. It has been shown that the shutters could be FORCED up from the outside without damage. The whole point of this thread is to show that the McCanns never lied about the shutters. The point is too subtle to be appreciated by most posters

[Mr Gray]

So you are saying Brian Healy is a liar?

 Depends what you mean by a liar....if you say that he was told that the shutters were forced..but interpreted this as being gemmied...ie paraphrased what he had heard...does this make him a liar.

[Benice]

Depends what you mean by a liar....if you say that he was told that the shutters were forced..but interpreted this as being gemmied...ie paraphrased what he had heard...does this make him a liar.

Exactly.  People do not repeat conversations they've had 'word for word' like parrots.  We have memories not tape recorders.   People tend to convey only the gist of a conversation and use their own words based on their own understanding of what they had been told.    Also misunderstandings can arise if the person is not actually at the scene and can only imagine what they have been told happened - with no way of checking whether their interpretation is correct.

It would be a natural reaction IMO on hearing that someone had broken into an apartment via a window to assume there must have been some force involved and to add in that assumption ( of theirs)  when speaking to a third party.

IMO It's nonsense to suggest people lied because they may not have repeated 'word for word' the exact conversation they'd had with someone else.    Humans don't have the capacity to do that  - and we do not have a 'replay' button - only our powers of recall which can vary hugely from person to person. 

I don't think Kate, Gerry or any of their friends/family lied about the shutters/windows - they all just said what they THOUGHT must have happened at that time.     

   


 

[slartibartfast]

Exactly.  People do not repeat conversations they've had 'word for word' like parrots.  We have memories not tape recorders.   People tend to convey only the gist of a conversation and use their own words based on their own understanding of what they had been told.    Also misunderstandings can arise if the person is not actually at the scene and can only imagine what they have been told happened - with no way of checking whether their interpretation is correct.

It would be a natural reaction IMO on hearing that someone had broken into an apartment via a window to assume there must have been some force involved and to add in that assumption ( of theirs)  when speaking to a third party.

IMO It's nonsense to suggest people lied because they may not have repeated 'word for word' the exact conversation they'd had with someone else.    Humans don't have the capacity to do that  - and we do not have a 'replay' button - only our powers of recall which can vary hugely from person to person. 

I don't think Kate, Gerry or any of their friends/family lied about the shutters/windows - they all just said what they THOUGHT must have happened at that time.     

   

You seem to be saying that the McCanns didn't use the word jemmied based on the fact that that was what was reported????

[Mr Gray]

Stick to the facts please. If you read the first three words of Brian's quote it should be fairly straightforward. If you then also measure this with the FACT Gerry's own sister also used this unusual word then on the balance if probability Brian Healey is telling the truth. Therefore you are saying he is a liar.

Brian Healey 05/05/07: "Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone. She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."

All this nonsense you are putting forward is why I said 12 pages of drivel! It's there plain and simple in black and White.

 the topic has been extensively discussed. If its drivel why are you turning 12 pages into 15. My point stands...k and g didnt use the word jemmied...didn't lie.....  the jemmied word was a result of a chinese whisper..and nothing you will say will make me think different

[Wonderfulspam]

Trish Cameron Lying To The Daily Mirror About What Gerry Said:


Heart specialist Gerry McCann rang his sister Trish in Scotland after Maddy vanished from her cot placed between two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.

Trish revealed yesterday: "He was breaking his heart, saying 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'."

Trish said:
"When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken."

"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull."

"They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340

[Mr Gray]

Exactly.  People do not repeat conversations they've had 'word for word' like parrots.  We have memories not tape recorders.   People tend to convey only the gist of a conversation and use their own words based on their own understanding of what they had been told.    Also misunderstandings can arise if the person is not actually at the scene and can only imagine what they have been told happened - with no way of checking whether their interpretation is correct.

It would be a natural reaction IMO on hearing that someone had broken into an apartment via a window to assume there must have been some force involved and to add in that assumption ( of theirs)  when speaking to a third party.

IMO It's nonsense to suggest people lied because they may not have repeated 'word for word' the exact conversation they'd had with someone else.    Humans don't have the capacity to do that  - and we do not have a 'replay' button - only our powers of recall which can vary hugely from person to person. 

I don't think Kate, Gerry or any of their friends/family lied about the shutters/windows - they all just said what they THOUGHT must have happened at that time.     

   

 Of course it was a normal,natural reaction...no lying involved