Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[G-Unit]

they referred to the apartment as a chalet...but this seems to be ignored

The apartment has been referred to as a chalet, a room, a club and whatever else. It all means the same place and we know that. The shutters were referred to as jemmied, broken, forced or smashed.They all mean the same thing and we all know who the source was.

[stephen25000]

The apartment has been referred to as a chalet, a room, a club and whatever else. It all means the same place and we know that. The shutters were referred to as jemmied, broken, forced or smashed.They all mean the same thing and we all know who the source was.

Precisely.

[Brietta]

they referred to the apartment as a chalet...but this seems to be ignored

They were far away and helpless.

I cannot imagine the trauma the phone calls from Portugal must have caused.

I have often watched people being interviewed in the aftermath of tragedy who are almost incoherent with grief ... and have fervently wished that journalists would observe a cooling off period before shoving a camera and a microphone into their faces.
But such is twenty four hour news gathering.

If it was thought at home that the family were not in an apartment but a chalet it is hardly surprising open was translated as jemmied ~ they may have seen metal shutters of the type when abroad and have thought that the only way of opening them from outside was by force.

However in my opinion all that is irrelevant ... except as another get the boot into the Drs McCann opportunity.

[stephen25000]

They were far away and helpless.

I cannot imagine the trauma the phone calls from Portugal must have caused.

I have often watched people being interviewed in the aftermath of tragedy who are almost incoherent with grief ... and have fervently wished that journalists would observe a cooling off period before shoving a camera and a microphone into their faces.
But such is twenty four hour news gathering.

If it was thought at home that the family were not in an apartment but a chalet it is hardly surprising open was translated as jemmied ~ they may have seen metal shutters of the type when abroad and have thought that the only way of opening them from outside was by force.

However in my opinion all that is irrelevant ... except as another get the boot into the Drs McCann opportunity.

Your making feeble excuses.

Read Mitchell's words.

[Mr Gray]

The apartment has been referred to as a chalet, a room, a club and whatever else. It all means the same place and we know that. The shutters were referred to as jemmied, broken, forced or smashed.They all mean the same thing and we all know who the source was.

Precisely.....the mccanns said the shitters were forced and this was repeated by the family as jemmied
No lies by anyone

[Brietta]

The apartment has been referred to as a chalet, a room, a club and whatever else. It all means the same place and we know that. The shutters were referred to as jemmied, broken, forced or smashed.They all mean the same thing and we all know who the source was.

Who needs to reinforce a point when you are there to do exactly that.

However I shall re-iterate ... the reference to the jemmied shutters, the provenance of which is just another irrelevance in a litany of them ... is of use only as another stick with which to beat the parents and family of a missing child.

Innuendo becomes rather revealing in that endeavour and just as distasteful as fronting up and saying it outright.   

[stephen25000]

Precisely.....the mccanns said the shitters were forced and this was repeated by the family as jemmied
No lies by anyone

' Precisely.....the mccanns said the shitters .................. '


Oh dear, what a classic faux pas.

The shutters were never jemmied and the window opening was never independently verified.

End of story.

[Brietta]

' Precisely.....the mccanns said the shitters .................. '


Oh dear, what a classic faux pas.

The shutters were never jemmied and the window opening was never independently verified.

End of story.

Perhaps you should bear in mind that not even Mr Amaral denied the evidence given by the main witness ... there was a very good portrayal in his video of an actor easily passing the cots, the bed and the chair to access the open window and look out.

[stephen25000]

Perhaps you should bear in mind that not even Mr Amaral denied the evidence given by the main witness ... there was a very good portrayal in his video of an actor easily passing the cots, the bed and the chair to access the open window and look out.

You can't have it both ways.

You've said repeatedly that Amaral was only interested in the mccanns involvement.

Now what did Mitchell say again ???

[sadie]

They were far away and helpless.

I cannot imagine the trauma the phone calls from Portugal must have caused.

I have often watched people being interviewed in the aftermath of tragedy who are almost incoherent with grief ... and have fervently wished that journalists would observe a cooling off period before shoving a camera and a microphone into their faces.
But such is twenty four hour news gathering.

If it was thought at home that the family were not in an apartment but a chalet it is hardly surprising open was translated as jemmied ~ they may have seen metal shutters of the type when abroad and have thought that the only way of opening them from outside was by force.

However in my opinion all that is irrelevant ... except as another get the boot into the Drs McCann opportunity.

The whole "jemmied" thing is totally irrelavent.  So twee to keep going on about it.



Parents who came home to find their daughter missing and with shutters raised and window open might well initially think the window and shutter were forced.


They had believed it locked, as anyone would on entering an aoartment at the beginning of their stay.  They knew that they hadn't opened it ever and also were of the opinion that Madeleine could not manage it.

Naturally, their immediate initial reaction might be that it was forced.  It would have been mine.   
And dont forget that as Brietta just so elequently said, they were likely almost incoherent and mind muddled with grief.


The whole thing about "jemmied", or not, is totally unimportant.   To keep going on about such irrelevant stuff is a sign that you are nit picking for the sake of it.  just to try and hurt The Drs Mccann.




So, give me a good reason why it matters that somewhere along the line, someone thought that the window had been forced / jemmied.

One good reason


It amazes me at the restricted mentality of people who keep going on about it,
.....but of course, hurting The Mccanns is the most important thing to some  .... and creating obfuscation

[Benice]

The apartment has been referred to as a chalet, a room, a club and whatever else. It all means the same place and we know that. The shutters were referred to as jemmied, broken, forced or smashed.They all mean the same thing and we all know who the source was.

The McCanns may have said that someone had ''broken into'' the apartment through the window.   'Broken into' - does not necessarily mean damage had been done, but it is the common phrase used.    A burglar may get into a house via an already open window, but we would still say  'the burglar broke in via a window' - whether force was used or not.

Chinese  whispers happen all the time. - when conversations are being repeated.     

Every time someone posts ' don't put words into my mouth' - it's because they feel their words have been changed and so has the meaning.


Here is an example of how a chinese whispers can alter the meaning of a sentence  i.e. from 'being on a hill' to 'dead and buried'.

Quote from Paiva
“She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there.
UNQUOTE

Quote from: Luz on Today at 12:23:51 AM
snipped

In fact it was Ricardo Paiva who first was called by Mrs. McCann about the dream where she saw her daughter dead and insisted she was buried in a certain spot in Praia da Luz....
Unquote

That's not what Kate said.

Here's another example - where Helder rang the GNR twice - and told Santos what he had done,  but was later described by Santos as Helder saying he had rung the police 'several times.'     'Twice' isn't 'several times'.


Helder Jorge Samaio Luis, receptionist
. That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again."


Vitor Manuel dos Santos, Head of accommodation
 He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times
End quote

People don't repeat word for word conversations they have had - they give their own version of the gist of what was said and their own beliefs creep in.

The people back in the UK had never seen the window or the room and would be making their own interpretations and drawing their own conclusions of what two shocked/ hysterical people were telling them had happened.   

[stephen25000]

The McCanns may have said that someone had ''broken into'' the apartment through the window.   'Broken into' - does not necessarily mean damage had been done, but it is the common phrase used.    A burglar may get into a house via an already open window, but we would still say  'the burglar broke in via a window' - whether force was used or not.

Chinese  whispers happen all the time. - when conversations are being repeated.     

Every time someone posts ' don't put words into my mouth' - it's because they feel their words have been changed and so has the meaning.


Here is an example of how a chinese whispers can alter the meaning of a sentence  i.e. from 'being on a hill' to 'dead and buried'.

Quote from Paiva
“She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there.
UNQUOTE

Quote from: Luz on Today at 12:23:51 AM
snipped

In fact it was Ricardo Paiva who first was called by Mrs. McCann about the dream where she saw her daughter dead and insisted she was buried in a certain spot in Praia da Luz....
Unquote

That's not what Kate said.

Here's another example - where Helder rang the GNR twice - and told Santos what he had done,  but was later described by Santos as Helder saying he had rung the police 'several times.'     'Twice' isn't 'several times'.


Helder Jorge Samaio Luis, receptionist
. That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again."


Vitor Manuel dos Santos, Head of accommodation
 He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times
End quote

People don't repeat word for word conversations they have had - they give their own version of the gist of what was said and their own beliefs creep in.

The people back in the UK had never seen the window or the room and would be making their own interpretations and drawing their own conclusions of what two shocked/ hysterical people were telling them had happened.   

No, the jemmying claim comes from the mccanns and nowhere else.

[stephen25000]

The whole "jemmied" thing is totally irrelavent.  So twee to keep going on about it.



Parents who came home to find their daughter missing and with shutters raised and window open might well initially think the window and shutter were forced.


They had believed it locked, as anyone would on entering an aoartment at the beginning of their stay.  They knew that they hadn't opened it ever and also were of the opinion that Madeleine could not manage it.

Naturally, their immediate initial reaction might be that it was forced.  It would have been mine.   
And dont forget that as Brietta just so elequently said, they were likely almost incoherent and mind muddled with grief.


The whole thing about "jemmied", or not, is totally unimportant.   To keep going on about such irrelevant stuff is a sign that you are nit picking for the sake of it.  just to try and hurt The Drs Mccann.




So, give me a good reason why it matters that somewhere along the line, someone thought that the window had been forced / jemmied.

One good reason


It amazes me at the restricted mentality of people who keep going on about it,
.....but of course, hurting The Mccanns is the most important thing to some  .... and creating obfuscation

As you well know Sadie, it was part of the abduction story.

[Brietta]

As you well know Sadie, it was part of the abduction story.

That would be "the abduction story" discarded by Mr Amaral but presently being investigated by the PJ and SY ... no doubt inclusive of the meticulous record of the inspection of 5A, particularly the bedroom window, which was carried out by the Rebelo investigation.

[stephen25000]

That would be "the abduction story" discarded by Mr Amaral but presently being investigated by the PJ and SY ... no doubt inclusive of the meticulous record of the inspection of 5A, particularly the bedroom window, which was carried out by the Rebelo investigation.

The abduction story....

Mmmm.

That's what it remains.

Yet again, what have SY found ?

Their clear lack of direction was highlighted by the request to the Australian Police.

Clutching at straws, would be the polite thing to say.