Madeleine McCann made a 'Ward of Court' by English Judge.

[lizzibif.]

If still a Ward of Court? Does her Wardship still lie with Mrs Justice Hogg..?

[gilet]

If still a Ward of Court? Does her Wardship still lie with Mrs Justice Hogg..?

I think that is a genuinely private matter for the McCanns and their family to deal with.

I doubt that we will discover any details because basically it is none of our business, though I am sure some would disagree with me because they give the impression that they have the right to know every facet of the McCanns' lives.

If she remains a ward of court, I think it for the best, as it could give more weight if UK intervention is required in any future scenario pertaining to Madeleine being found in a third country.

[lizzibif.]

I think that is a genuinely private matter for the McCanns and their family to deal with.

I doubt that we will discover any details because basically it is none of our business, though I am sure some would disagree with me because they give the impression that they have the right to know every facet of the McCanns' lives.

If she remains a ward of court, I think it for the best, as it could give more weight if UK intervention is required in any future scenario pertaining to Madeleine being found in a third country.

perhaps you are right.. I was just curious that's all..going now G'night

[Serendipity]

If still a Ward of Court? Does her Wardship still lie with Mrs Justice Hogg..?

Given that The McCann's lawyer is planning on applying for Assistente status for them, your question is highly relevent.

Being granted such a status requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

Source:  McCanns Request Assistente Status 25 September 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS_ASSISTENTE.htm

When they applied for Assistente status in September 2007 the Ward of Court application was in progress and was not granted until April 2008 and so would not have factored in the original 2007 Assistente application.  The difference this time is that Madeleine is now a Ward of Court and it may be that under Portuguese law the McCann's may no longer be classed as her legal representatives.

Something that suggests that they may not be is the fact that there were originally five names on the McCann v Amaral libel lawsuit:  Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie McCann but 2 years ago Madeleine's name was removed from that lawsuit. 

If it is the case that they would not be regarded as Madeleine's legal representatives in an Assistente application it does explain why their lawyer Mr Alves was recently quoted saying  'I will be applying for the McCanns to become assistentes in this case but don't know yet when. '  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476728/From-arguido-assistente-McCanns-apply-prosecutor-status-let-Portuguese-case-files-suspects-face-trial.html  It may well be that they have to return to a UK court to make an application for the Ward of Court Status to be lifted or whatever the legalese for it is.

The problem with having the Ward of Court status lifted for the purposes of attaining Assistente status is that as Gilet explained it would mean that it would be far harder to repatriate her if she was found somewhere other than UK or Portugal without the weight that her current Ward of Court supported UK intervention would provide.

[DCI]

Given that The McCann's lawyer is planning on applying for Assistente status for them, your question is highly relevent.

Being granted such a status requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

Source:  McCanns Request Assistente Status 25 September 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS_ASSISTENTE.htm

When they applied for Assistente status in September 2007 the Ward of Court application was in progress and was not granted until April 2008 and so would not have factored in the original 2007 Assistente application.  The difference this time is that Madeleine is now a Ward of Court and it may be that under Portuguese law the McCann's may no longer be classed as her legal representatives.

Something that suggests that they may not be is the fact that there were originally five names on the McCann v Amaral libel lawsuit:  Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie McCann but 2 years ago Madeleine's name was removed from that lawsuit. 

If it is the case that they would not be regarded as Madeleine's legal representatives in an Assistente application it does explain why their lawyer Mr Alves was recently quoted saying  'I will be applying for the McCanns to become assistentes in this case but don't know yet when. '  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476728/From-arguido-assistente-McCanns-apply-prosecutor-status-let-Portuguese-case-files-suspects-face-trial.html  It may well be that they have to return to a UK court to make an application for the Ward of Court Status to be lifted or whatever the legalese for it is.

The problem with having the Ward of Court status lifted for the purposes of attaining Assistente status is that as Gilet explained it would mean that it would be far harder to repatriate her if she was found somewhere other than UK or Portugal without the weight that her current Ward of Court supported UK intervention would provide.

But they weren't made asisstente's when Abreu applied for it.

To The Criminal Judge

Public Ministry

Gerald McCann, a doctor, passport no. ******** and Kate Healy, doctor, Passport no.*******, married and resident at Orchard House, Rothley, in their condition as parents of their oldest child Madeleine McCann, being the holders of the interest directly protected by the norms violated which led to the current investigation instigated in Lagos and agreed by the Public Prosecutor refer respectfully to article 68 no. 1 of the Penal Code, request their constitution as assistentes in the case and annex herewith the receipts of justice tax payments and certificates emitted in favour of their representative as well as certified translations.

Signed

Carlos Pinto de Abreu

Date (from bottom of fax) 24-08-2007

They never were!

[Serendipity]

But they weren't made asisstente's when Abreu applied for it.

To The Criminal Judge

Public Ministry

Gerald McCann, a doctor, passport no. ******** and Kate Healy, doctor, Passport no.*******, married and resident at Orchard House, Rothley, in their condition as parents of their oldest child Madeleine McCann, being the holders of the interest directly protected by the norms violated which led to the current investigation instigated in Lagos and agreed by the Public Prosecutor refer respectfully to article 68 no. 1 of the Penal Code, request their constitution as assistentes in the case and annex herewith the receipts of justice tax payments and certificates emitted in favour of their representative as well as certified translations.

Signed

Carlos Pinto de Abreu

Date (from bottom of fax) 24-08-2007

They never were!

I didn't say they were.  I simply pointed out that in order for them to be granted Assistente status now as it also did then that  it requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

Madeleine is now a Ward of Court.  Suggest you re-read my post DCI

[DCI]

I didn't say they were.  I simply pointed out that in order for them to be granted Assistente status now as it also did then that  it requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

Madeleine is now a Ward of Court.  Suggest you re-read my post DCI

Why would the Ward of Court need to be lifted, to be an assistente?

[imustpointout]

why is any discussion on ward of court allowed?

[Serendipity]

Why would the Ward of Court need to be lifted, to be an assistente?

Because as Madeleine is a Ward of court it may well be that Kate and Gerry would not be considered to be her legal representatives in the eyes of the Portuguese court

Requirements for Assistente status requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

[Jean-Pierre]

Maybe a little examination of the actual facts relating to wardship may be helpful. 

First of all, there are some common circumstances in which a child might be warded.

When a child is made a ward, the court 'takes over the ultimate responsibility for the child'10 sharing parental responsibility with those who already hold it, but exerting control over important decisions.  Indeed no important step in the child's life can be taken without leave of the court.

The most common situations in which the court may make an injunction for the child's protection are outlined at paragraph 1.2 of Practice Direction 12D of the FPR, and are as follows:

a) orders to restrain publicity;
b) orders to prevent an undesirable association;
c) orders relating to medical treatment;
d) orders to protect abducted children, or children where the case has another substantial foreign element; and
e) orders for the return of children to and from another state.

Of course circumstances in which wardship proceedings may be successful are not necessarily limited to such examples but I think in this case d and e are likely to be of particular relevance. 

My understanding of the wardship relating to Madeleine McCann is that her parents are her guradians (as well as, of course, remaining her parents).   The intention of the court is to support her parents and join the powers of the court to their parental rights should Madeleine be found and should there be any legal difficulty with a third state. 

I have not been able to find anything in Portuguese law under which Madeleine being a ward of court would prevent her parents from becoming assistentes in the investigation.   

No doubt those arguing that they would lose that right will be able to provide specific reference to the law which would prevent their becoming assistentes. 

[AnneGuedes]

Given that The McCann's lawyer is planning on applying for Assistente status for them, your question is highly relevent.

Being granted such a status requires that the applicants "do not cease to be the legal representatives of the girl Madeleine"

Source:  McCanns Request Assistente Status 25 September 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS_ASSISTENTE.htm

When they applied for Assistente status in September 2007 the Ward of Court application was in progress and was not granted until April 2008 and so would not have factored in the original 2007 Assistente application.  The difference this time is that Madeleine is now a Ward of Court and it may be that under Portuguese law the McCann's may no longer be classed as her legal representatives.

Something that suggests that they may not be is the fact that there were originally five names on the McCann v Amaral libel lawsuit:  Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie McCann but 2 years ago Madeleine's name was removed from that lawsuit. 

If it is the case that they would not be regarded as Madeleine's legal representatives in an Assistente application it does explain why their lawyer Mr Alves was recently quoted saying  'I will be applying for the McCanns to become assistentes in this case but don't know yet when. '  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476728/From-arguido-assistente-McCanns-apply-prosecutor-status-let-Portuguese-case-files-suspects-face-trial.html  It may well be that they have to return to a UK court to make an application for the Ward of Court Status to be lifted or whatever the legalese for it is.

The problem with having the Ward of Court status lifted for the purposes of attaining Assistente status is that as Gilet explained it would mean that it would be far harder to repatriate her if she was found somewhere other than UK or Portugal without the weight that her current Ward of Court supported UK intervention would provide.

Thanks very much for this, Serendipity.
The assistente statute, in 2007, was granted and turned almost immediately obsolete by the arguido statute which provides similar rights.

[Serendipity]

Maybe a little examination of the actual facts relating to wardship may be helpful. 

First of all, there are some common circumstances in which a child might be warded.

When a child is made a ward, the court 'takes over the ultimate responsibility for the child'10 sharing parental responsibility with those who already hold it, but exerting control over important decisions.  Indeed no important step in the child's life can be taken without leave of the court.

The most common situations in which the court may make an injunction for the child's protection are outlined at paragraph 1.2 of Practice Direction 12D of the FPR, and are as follows:

a) orders to restrain publicity;
b) orders to prevent an undesirable association;
c) orders relating to medical treatment;
d) orders to protect abducted children, or children where the case has another substantial foreign element; and
e) orders for the return of children to and from another state.

Of course circumstances in which wardship proceedings may be successful are not necessarily limited to such examples but I think in this case d and e are likely to be of particular relevance. 

My understanding of the wardship relating to Madeleine McCann is that her parents are her guradians (as well as, of course, remaining her parents).   The intention of the court is to support her parents and join the powers of the court to their parental rights should Madeleine be found and should there be any legal difficulty with a third state. 

I have not been able to find anything in Portuguese law under which Madeleine being a ward of court would prevent her parents from becoming assistentes in the investigation.   

No doubt those arguing that they would lose that right will be able to provide specific reference to the law which would prevent their becoming assistentes.

You obviously missed the part where I said " it may be that under Portuguese law the McCann's may no longer be classed as her legal representatives."

It does need clarification, granted, hence why I said 'may be' I do wonder though for what other reason Madeleiene's name had to be removed from the McCann v Amaral libel lawsuit if it were not because they are not classed as her legal representatives under Portuguese law. Maybe someone who posts here who lives in Portugal could us assist here? :)

[Serendipity]

Thanks very much for this, Serendipity.
The assistente statute, in 2007, was granted and turned almost immediately obsolete by the arguido statute which provides similar rights.

Thank you Anne, I understood both statuses to have similar rights.

[Jean-Pierre]

You obviously missed the part where I said " it may be that under Portuguese law the McCann's may no longer be classed as her legal representatives."

It does need clarification, granted, hence why I said 'may be' I do wonder though for what other reason Madeleiene's name had to be removed from the McCann v Amaral libel lawsuit if it were not because they are not classed as her legal representatives under Portuguese law. Maybe someone who posts here who lives in Portugal could us assist here? :)

You do seem to be spending a lot of time thinking about ways in which the McCanns should not be involved in the investigation.   

[comanche]

they will be involved