The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[Cariad]

You "will never understand" because only an innocent LC suits your agenda.
You're spreading the myth of a miscarriage of justice concerning LC, though you don't understand her language, have never seen her nor talked to her nor wrote to her.
LC concerns you only as an instrument to discredit the inspector who handled the case, not for the sake of Joana, but for the sake of another little girl's parents.
Exactly like the medium lawyer Aragão Correia.
Shameful.

This is the vibe I'm getting too. Joana had a horrible life and a horrible death, yet she seems to have been forgotten.

[Montclair]

You obviously haven't been reading the posts...campaigning on her behalf.....according to Montclair who has lived in Portugal for 37 years he has never known anyone to win an appeal..it doesn't happen in Portugal..what do you think of that..

As what she did to her children...that's the version from the pj

I never said that no one has ever won an appeal. People win appeals all the time. Some have their sentences reduced, verdicts overturned but gross miscarriages of justice I don't remember any but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. But Leonor and João Cipriano aren't victims, that's for sure. This is my last comment about those two, they have no more appeals, they have all been rejected.

[Benice]

You "will never understand" because only an innocent LC suits your agenda.
You're spreading the myth of a miscarriage of justice concerning LC, though you don't understand her language, have never seen her nor talked to her nor wrote to her.
LC concerns you only as an instrument to discredit the inspector who handled the case, not for the sake of Joana, but for the sake of another little girl's parents.
Exactly like the medium lawyer Aragão Correia.
Shameful.

Reported. 

 I do not spread myths.  I post my opinion.  I have every right to do that -just as you have every right to post your opinions about your perceived guilt of the McCanns without being repeatedly accused of creating and spreading myths.   Creating myths is to create lies.   I am not a liar.


 

[AnneGuedes]

Benice, I've told you I'll never leave you spread a myth without denouncing it, I certainly never said I wouldn't leave you express your opinion. This is the last thing I'd wish to do.

For instance when you claim that the McCanns were right not to give importance to Madeleine's asking where they were when she cried, this is your opinion, not a myth.

When you insinuate that LC shouldn't be in jail as decided by the Portuguese Justice you spread the myth of a possible miscarriage of justice.

And please don't spread the myth that I consider the McCanns guilty, because I never said so.

[Benice]

Benice, I've told you I'll never leave you spread a myth without denouncing it, I certainly never said I wouldn't leave you express your opinion. This is the last thing I'd wish to do.

For instance when you claim that the McCanns were right not to give importance to Madeleine's asking where they were when she cried, this is your opinion, not a myth.

When you insinuate that LC shouldn't be in jail as decided by the Portuguese Justice you spread the myth of a possible miscarriage of justice.

And please don't spread the myth that I consider the McCanns guilty, because I never said so.

Posting an opinion is not spreading myths.  Spreading myths is dishonest.  I am not dishonest.  Your persistent personal attacks on me -  and not on my posts is against the rules.   

Quote from you to me:-
You're spreading the myth of a miscarriage of justice concerning LC, though you don't understand her language, have never seen her nor talked to her nor wrote to her.
Unquote

If it is prerequisite that posters can only comment on people they have met or talked to then this forum might as well be closed down now - as I doubt anyone here has met the McCanns or spoken to them.

If I think a miscarriage of justice may have occurred I am entitled to say so.   Just as those people who do not accept  (despite what SY have said) that the McCanns are innocent - are also entitled to express their opinions.

Your claim that you know WHY I post and that I am spreading lies as part of some kind of hidden agenda is outrageous and extremely offensive.   

On another thread where you also personally attack me  - John has requested that people leave out 'personal comments'.   That also applied to YOU - as I presume you are not exempt from the rules.

[Mr Gray]

I never said that no one has ever won an appeal. People win appeals all the time. Some have their sentences reduced, verdicts overturned but gross miscarriages of justice I don't remember any but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. But Leonor and João Cipriano aren't victims, that's for sure. This is my last comment about those two, they have no more appeals, they have all been rejected.

please make it your last comment because it was Luz who started this thread... I don't wish to keep commenting on it but if other posters raise the issue I will reply. I believe there  may have been a miscarriage of justice in this case ..simple as that...no agenda. My only agenda is to find out the truth about what happened to madeleine and after looking at all the evidence with a critical eye...I don't think her parents are involved and  on the balance of probabilities...which is how justice works ..I think she was abducted

[Mr Gray]

Posting an opinion is not spreading myths.  Spreading myths is dishonest.  I am not dishonest.  Your persistent personal attacks on me -  and not on my posts is against the rules.   

Quote from you to me:-
You're spreading the myth of a miscarriage of justice concerning LC, though you don't understand her language, have never seen her nor talked to her nor wrote to her.
Unquote

If it is prerequisite that posters can only comment on people they have met or talked to then this forum might as well be closed down now - as I doubt anyone here has met the McCanns or spoken to them.

If I think a miscarriage of justice may have occurred I am entitled to say so.   Just as those people who do not accept  (despite what SY have said) that the McCanns are innocent - are also entitled to express their opinions.

Your claim that you know WHY I post and that I am spreading lies as part of some kind of hidden agenda is outrageous and extremely offensive.   

On another thread where you also personally attack me  - John has requested that people leave out 'personal comments'.   That also applied to YOU - as I presume you are not exempt from the rules.

 Its rather silly to talk about spreading myths when what you and I have said is that there may have been a miscarriage of justice. if posters feel we are not allowed to have an opinion then I suggest it is them who have a problem AND an agenda.

[j.rob]

Hmm - an interesting few hours reading the McCann files and the history behind the Amaral who was pulled from the case. Amaral was, of course, of the opinion that Madeleine died in the apartment and that the parents pretended there had been an abduction.

He was the lawyer who brought about a conviction in Portugal of the mother and uncle of a child, Joana, who was reported 'missing' by the mother. I do believe that the mother appeared in the media making appeals to the 'abductor' asking them not to harm the child.

The mother and uncle were eventually convicted of her murder, although I understand there are new twits (HA - typo!! should read TWISTS)  in the story and that the mother is now claiming it was the uncle who carried out the murder (who is her brother - is this correct??) Whether it was one or both of them - they are both proven liars, with serious personality defects

Her defence lawyer was/is Correia. Again, this is my understanding from what I have read.   Apparently Amaral thinks he should be sectioned and I have to say, from what I have read about him, I agree. He has also had some involvement in the McCann case in terms of searching for her - he believes in the abduction theory.

The Joana case reveals that the mother had been cruelly neglectful of the child and there is some evidence of sexual abuse. The mother changed her story endlessly and gave very unreliable evidence.

The mother provided evidence suggesting that Amaral had beated her up in order to make her confess to the killing of her daughter. This was widely reported in the UK press and elsewhere. The evidence was false. It was done to discredit Amaral. To my knowledge this fact has not been reported in the UK media. The mother lied about that - just like she had lied about the disappearance of her daughter. Amaral had, apparently, reported that her injuries were because she threw herself down the stairs. I presume because this is either what he believed or what she had told him. For this statement, which is wrong (apparently she was beaten up by inmates of the jail) he has been prosecuted and has received a suspended sentence. All sounds like a big stitch up.

[j.rob]

Happy to be corrected on any facts that are inaccurate. You have to wade through a lot of files in order to reach some kind of summary of what has happened so far.

The timings are extremely interesting - it is my understanding that Amaral was made an arguido (on the basis of the false claim from the mother convicted of murdering Joana) on 4th May 2007. I think Gerry and Kate were quoted on their views on this - 'it speaks for itself' or something.

Has anyone informed them about them that Joana's mother made up a pack of lies about being beaten up by Amaral? I think it is quite important.

[sadie]

My comments on the McCann's caring about Amaral were said in irony...

Benita?? Please clarify - are you denying that the mother of Joana, a murdered child, lied in her evidence that Amaral beat her up? That was the conclusion reached by a court of law.

Don't you think it is good that justice was found for an eight year old child who was brutally murdered?

Given that this thread relates to the murder of an innocent child and to the alleged disappearance of another child - whose parents claim they think may have been abducted by a paedophile, your facetious and childish smiley is just - extraordinary, really.

Leonor was terrified of being brutally tortured again.  She said anything that she was told to say.  Tortured people always do.  Ultimately, they have to protect themselves.

Fascist States use torture.  PT claims to be a Democracy, but as far as certain sections of the PJ and the Judiciary are concerned is clearly nothing of the sort. 

After a change from Fascism to Democracy, it is almost always sections of the Police / Judiciary and the Military that hang on to the old ways.  They fear losing their old power.  They have developed a liking for being able to order people around.  And some get a surge when torturing.  They thrive on bullying and torture.



Joana is almost certianly still alive as is Madeleine


Tbh, your thinking is lacking j.rob

[Wonderfulspam]

Leonor was terrified of being brutally tortured again.  She said anything that she was told to say.  Tortured people always do.  Ultimately, they have to protect themselves.

Fascist States use torture.  PT claims to be a Democracy, but as far as certain sections of the PJ and the Judiciary are concerned is clearly nothing of the sort. 

After a change from Fascism to Democracy, it is almost always sections of the Police / Judiciary and the Military that hang on to the old ways.  They fear losing their old power.  They have developed a liking for being able to order people around.  And some get a surge when torturing.  They thrive on bullying and torture.



Joana is almost certianly still alive as is Madeleine


Tbh, your thinking is lacking j.rob

Joana is almost certianly still alive as is Madeleine


Yes and pigs have wings.

[Redblossom]

Joana is almost certianly still alive as is Madeleine

----



Ridiculous at best.......oh no evidence too, not a jot......for you to profess she is most certainly alive...same with Madeleine Mccann.....

And why did leonora say her brother killed her then? if she was abducted Tut tut

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/01/translation-of-leonor-ciprianos.html

[stephen25000]

Leonor was terrified of being brutally tortured again.  She said anything that she was told to say.  Tortured people always do.  Ultimately, they have to protect themselves.

Fascist States use torture.  PT claims to be a Democracy, but as far as certain sections of the PJ and the Judiciary are concerned is clearly nothing of the sort. 

After a change from Fascism to Democracy, it is almost always sections of the Police / Judiciary and the Military that hang on to the old ways.  They fear losing their old power.  They have developed a liking for being able to order people around.  And some get a surge when torturing.  They thrive on bullying and torture.



Joana is almost certianly still alive as is Madeleine


Tbh, your thinking is lacking j.rob

Cipriano is a convicted liar.

You do not know she has told the truth.

Liars by their very nature aren't inclined to do that.

As to Joana, YES feel sorry for what happened to her.

[Redblossom]

Cipriano is a convicted liar.

You do not know she has told the truth.

Liars by their very nature aren't inclined to do that.

As to Joana, YES feel sorry for what happened to her.

Certainly is...one or both killed joana, thats what the court found, all appeals went down the bog, not rocket science.......she most certainly is not alive or missing abducted

[Mr Gray]

Cipriano is a convicted liar.

You do not know she has told the truth.

Liars by their very nature aren't inclined to do that.

As to Joana, YES feel sorry for what happened to her.

Leonor Cipriano may well have been the victim of a severe miscarriage of justice. It would seem the only evidence against her was extracted by the use or threat of torture