Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 422973 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #990 on: November 18, 2013, 09:10:49 PM »
Yes hiding a body but not as you asserted earlier of homicide and  hiding a body, something you said was fairly popular in Portugal but have failed to come up with the goods for your assertion......


No good prancing around stating untruths that you cant back up, now is it?

Put your own house in order before you critisise others.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #991 on: November 18, 2013, 09:12:43 PM »
Yes hiding a body but not as you asserted earlier of homicide and  hiding a body, something you said was fairly popular in Portugal but have failed to come up with the goods for your assertion......


No good prancing around stating untruths that you cant back up, now is it?

 it was sarcasm..expressed at amaral who came to the same conclusions in two cases...from CDM

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk’s right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it’s the only way to explain what happened there.

Hide your head in the sand ..it makes no difference

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #992 on: November 18, 2013, 09:17:04 PM »
it was sarcasm..expressed at amaral who came to the same conclusions in two cases...from CDM

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk’s right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it’s the only way to explain what happened there.

Hide your head in the sand ..it makes no difference

Indeed he was speculating.....never stated anything as fact....and nothing NEAR finding blood in several places in a freezer in the alledged missing girls home......and something the ciprianos confessed to

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #993 on: November 18, 2013, 09:19:48 PM »
Indeed he was speculating.....never stated anything as fact....and nothing NEAR finding blood in several places in a freezer in the alledged missing girls home......and something the ciprianos confessed to

blood that didn't belong to Joanna..and confessions beaten out of people

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #994 on: November 18, 2013, 09:21:54 PM »
Wrong on both counts.....vis a vis the facts, what you READ on any forum is neither here nor there

 Absolutely 100% correct on both counts

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #995 on: November 18, 2013, 09:23:57 PM »
blood that didn't belong to Joanna..and confessions beaten out of people

So you thnk the supreme court judges are....what exactly? Upholding the judgements and decisions....thick?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #996 on: November 18, 2013, 09:26:09 PM »
Put your own house in order before you critisise others.

Your failure to back up yoir assertions has nothingto do with me putting my house in order...its all yours.....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #997 on: November 18, 2013, 09:26:22 PM »
So you thnk the supreme court judges are....what exactly? Upholding the judgements and decisions....thick?

Courts make mistakes...you have to agree because its true

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #998 on: November 18, 2013, 09:36:20 PM »
Courts make mistakes...you have to agree because its true

Sometimes they do.....but wheres the evidence...

You have not responded to my post 1009, why not? It trashes your argument, ah ive answered my own question, tara for now

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #999 on: November 18, 2013, 09:37:48 PM »

I see, so if other posters such as sadie sneer at me, it's OK ?


From sadie, in reference to what monsters look like, 'Can you send a photo, please Stephen?  8(0(* '

As to sadie's research that has been shown to be in error on repeated occasions, or haven't you noticed ?

If I make an error, then I am happy to correct it Stephen.  You dont attempt any research so you cant realise the problems.  You dont even attempt to try and make a sensible sceanario to back up your often disgusting assertions.



In an earlier post I said that Leonor was married at about 14 IIRC.  Seems that I did my calcs incorrectly, altho I haven't gone back to check them.

I understood that the age of consent was only 14 in PT. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Portugal

In Joana Morais article it states that she was underage  IIRC when Leonors first born, Dina,  was conceived

Therefore 13, or under?  Nine months pregnancy, then 11 months with her partner /hubby.  That surely makes her only 14 -15 when she married.

Dont know what to think if it was said that she was 18 in the Court case.


Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1000 on: November 18, 2013, 09:39:14 PM »
Sometimes they do.....but wheres the evidence...

You have not responded to my post 1009, why not? It trashes your argument, ah ive answered my own question, tara for now

 After your last stupid statement re me I wont answer any more of your posts for the time being

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1001 on: November 18, 2013, 09:41:53 PM »
If I make an error, then I am happy to correct it Stephen.  You dont attempt any research so you cant realise the problems.  You dont even attempt to try and make a sensible sceanario to back up your often disgusting assertions.



In an earlier post I said that Leonor was married at about 14 IIRC.  Seems that I did my calcs incorrectly, altho I haven't gone back to check them.

I understood that the age of consent was only 14 in PT. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Portugal

In Joana Morais article it states that she was underage  IIRC when Leonors first born, Dina,  was conceived

Therefore 13, or under?  Nine months pregnancy, then 11 months with her partner /hubby.  That surely makes her only 14 -15 when she married.

Dont know what to think if it was said that she was 18 in the Court case.

 Stephen joined the debate yesterday with an post that simply stated that I was deluded. Just a post to insult..nothing more..he then starts to cry when he gets insuls back

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1002 on: November 18, 2013, 09:42:55 PM »
Sometimes they do.....but wheres the evidence...

You have not responded to my post 1009, why not? It trashes your argument, ah ive answered my own question, tara for now

There is no point in answering your questions because they don't make sense, and are simply designed to wind people up.

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1003 on: November 18, 2013, 09:43:27 PM »
9. 2. Data as Facts not proved:
1- That the accused BB, in the course of her life, has not been able to provide their children with basic care, holding them back;

2- That the HH, son of the suspect BB, has been rescued by neighbours;

3- That the accused BB put to her daughter CC to disinterest and would be working, forcing her to carry out the tasks that were homemade should play but that was negligible;

4- That the accused BB had abandoned the CC, as it had already done to the other sons.

5- That the second time in which the suspect BB gave the CC to the father, she was about 3 years of age;

6- That  CC was the source of discussion between her mother, the defendant BB, and the stepfather II, reaching to the point of being  threatened to be put outside the house;

7- What about the 20 h that day 12 September, when the two defendants if they were alone, they have decided to keep the same sexual relations among themselves, being that the minor children of the BB did not constitute impediment to such an act, because that if they were to sleep in a room, already the CC could not watch such acts;

8- That when the CC went out of the house, the defendants have begun to maintain relations among themselves of copulation, in sofa of baggage and that even if they could find to maintain sexual relations when CC returned home;

9- What to see what the mother and uncle were doing, as soon as the smallest CC has said that he would tell the stepfather that they were "doing things wrong", tried to get out of the house;

10- That the defendants have raised the sofa, directing it toward  CC, aiming to prevent her from denouncing the II which she had witnessed;

11- That the side of the head with which the CC it foundered on the corner of the wall has been the left and that the wall in question was located near the port of entry;

12- That the CC has tried to flee from home, being then pulled into by the defendant AA;

13- That the CC has leaving prints Palms and face on the walls, either on the outer side, either inside, along the port of entry into the house;

14- That the defendants have placed the body of CCr, wrapped up in a duvet, in a corner of one of the rooms of the house, in a place that was not visible to anyone who might come, in order to then decide the fate that would become her;

15- That the accused BB has used washing detergent and bleach in the wall and the floor where there were signs of blood of CC;

16- That the defendant AA has time to have a beer with the II and the MM, in "Pastries ... ", to delay the return of the same home;

17- That the defendants, have thought of putting the body Cc inside  of a pit located near the house, by which the defendant AA if he went to the site, would have found that this would not be possible for the cover of the said pit being partially cemented, who informed the suspect BB;

18- What to do with the tools that the defendants cut the body CC had black handle;

19- That the defendants had placed the body of the CC on the floor of the room, on top of a sheet;

20- That the defendants have given a node in opening of bags that contained the torso and legs;

21- That the defendants have actually placed the three sacks in three bays of the ark refrigeration;

22- That the defendants had changed clothes and had dressed and the suspect BB, one more time that night, has washed the blood that had been on the ground.

23- That on the evening of September 12 the suspect BB invokes the 'disappearance' of CC before the people that was (exception made to II, MM and NN who spoke at that 'disappearance' );

24- That the bag that the defendants took at the end of the night of September 13 had contained the instruments used in cutting the body ;

25- WHICH, however, have begun to emerge ticks in the house, given the activity mentioned;

26- Who, already after prey, the suspect BB has, on several occasions, attributed to the co-accused AA full responsibility by the facts, as well as has also attributed to MM, in addition to having mentioned have been the body placed in the car intended to be pressed in Spain, or in multiple locations that was indicated;

27- That the defendant AA, in 1 interrogation, has indicated to be the body of the CC beneath a bridge, which connects to the Mexilhoeira Da Figueira, the opposite side that had initially indicated, and that, then, was indicated as her brother  having transported the body;

28- That the defendants had acted only with the view that CC does not reveal the stepfather what she had seen;

29- That the  CC it depended on the defendant AA.












10. Motivation of the conviction the court of jury
The fixing of proven facts and not tested it was based on a whole of the evidence produced at trial hearing and in accordance with the free conviction that the court was formed about the same (always bearing in mind the rules of experience), given to expert evidence, oral and documentary that was produced and assessing-if, on this, the reason of science and the exemption of each one of the testimonies provided.

7.1.2002 ...

The defendants chose not to provide statements.

None of the witnesses surveyed said they had seen the punishable acts, although some have reported important facts for the conviction of the Court.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1004 on: November 18, 2013, 09:45:17 PM »
blood that didn't belong to Joanna..and confessions beaten out of people

Also no motive found, no forensic evidence found, no cutting tools found, no body found and the poor woman was tried and found guilty in the press - way before the case even got to court.

Plus two PJ officers found guilty of crimes relating to the proven torture of LC in this case, and yet no-one is supposed to even hint that a miscarriage of justice might just have occurred?     Unbelievable!












The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal