The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[Redblossom]

So you have the sources but don't want to tell..what a load of rubbish...there are no sources...I thought it was against forum rules to post "crap" that you cannot substantiate

never said that,but others do.... keep posting ignorant rubbish its what you are good at.....and pls dont state there are no sources when you are in no position whatsoever to say so unless you have read every single thing on this case.....in both  languages which Im 100 per cent you have NOT.... if it makes you feel big or clever carry on it just makes you look like a total dumbass....

 8-)(--)

now Im going to watch something even more boring than you. The politicians in question time...see ya xxx

[Mr Gray]

never said that,but others do.... keep posting ignorant rubbish its what you are good at.....and pls dont state there are no sources when you are in no position whatsoever to say so unless you have read every single thing on this case...... if it makes you feel big or clever carry on it just makes you look like a total dumbass....


 8-)(--)

now Im going to watch something even more boring than you. The politicians in question time...see ya xxx

I will state there are NO SOURCES...feel free to contradict me not with useless words ...but with your sources..it is obvious to anyone you have none... This thread has been running for some time...lots of empty claims but nothing with sources...looking more and more like a miscarriage of justice

[John]

Is the Supreme Court official ruling document not sufficient source for you Dave?

"II. FUNDAMENTATION

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

ao) the arguidos did not place the shoes that the minor was wearing, inside the bags, and all the pairs of shoes that the minor was using that summer, stayed inside the house;

ao) os arguidos não colocaram os sapatos que a menor tinha calçados nos sacos, tendo ficado em casa todos os pares de sapatos que a menor utilizava naquele Verão;

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html

http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano

[John]

Even before she was committed to prison, Leonor Cipriano spoke, admitted, confessed to accidentally killing her daughter.  No silence on that occasion!

Extract from the Correio da Manhã on 26 September 2004.



Mother Confesses to death of Daughter by Accident.

Several hours of questioning culminating in the confession of the crime. First João Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of her niece after her mother Joan admitted responsibility for the murder committed against a minor, on the night of the 12th of this month, in the house where they lived in Figueira.

An accidental death , the woman claimed before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão , Ana Soares , who ordered the arrest of the woman and told the man at liberty with the obligation to report daily to authorities.
The coercive measures were only known from about 3:00 a.m. early yesterday morning , at a time when dozens of popular revolt were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day ) .
According found the Morning Post , the uncle of the murdered girl , João Cipriano , who was the first to be heard by the judge (he was being interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30 ) , will initially admitted crime , but later , when statements were passed in writing , the individual eventually point the finger to his sister , the mother of Joan .
"It is with my sister " - was the expression used countless times by the individual when faced with issues related to the way they had the murder of the child , referring to all the explanations Leonor Cipriano case .
João Cipriano have just recognized that helped Sister ( request ) to rid the body of Joan , after the girl was killed . Ensured that the body was placed in a land close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where , because " it was dark " .
However , Joana's mother , Leonor Cipriano , who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00 , came to confess to the murder of her daughter . The woman however justified that it was an accident , saying that she had given a slap to the child who had hit her head on a wall, falling unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter , so decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag . She then asked the help of her brother to dispose of the body of her own daughter , which she said came to pass at a site in the vicinity of the house . Like her uncle , the mother of Joan also have apologized to the dark, as well as the state of panic that would meet , not knowing where to put her daughter's body . This is , incidentally , the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to PJ about where laid the body prove completely false .
Lately , Joana's mother is taking the idea of finding psychologically affected with the case , verifying that often " says nothing to something," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation .
After hearing the two suspects , Judge of Criminal gathered to decide on enforcement measures to apply , calling to his presence the mother and uncle of Joana around 1:30 a.m. . It was then reported that Leonor Cipriano would be in custody and João Cipriano who would freely through the term of identity and residence and daily presentations authorities ( GNR Silves ).

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-confessa-morte-da-filha-por-acidente

[Mr Gray]

Even before she was committed to prison, Leonor Cipriano spoke, admitted, confessed to accidentally killing her daughter.  No silence on that occasion!

Extract from the Correio da Manhã on 26 September 2004.



Mother Confesses to death of Daughter by Accident.

Several hours of questioning culminating in the confession of the crime. First João Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of her niece after her mother Joan admitted responsibility for the murder committed against a minor, on the night of the 12th of this month, in the house where they lived in Figueira.

An accidental death , the woman claimed before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão , Ana Soares , who ordered the arrest of the woman and told the man at liberty with the obligation to report daily to authorities.
The coercive measures were only known from about 3:00 a.m. early yesterday morning , at a time when dozens of popular revolt were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day ) .
According found the Morning Post , the uncle of the murdered girl , João Cipriano , who was the first to be heard by the judge (he was being interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30 ) , will initially admitted crime , but later , when statements were passed in writing , the individual eventually point the finger to his sister , the mother of Joan .
"It is with my sister " - was the expression used countless times by the individual when faced with issues related to the way they had the murder of the child , referring to all the explanations Leonor Cipriano case .
João Cipriano have just recognized that helped Sister ( request ) to rid the body of Joan , after the girl was killed . Ensured that the body was placed in a land close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where , because " it was dark " .
However , Joana's mother , Leonor Cipriano , who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00 , came to confess to the murder of her daughter . The woman however justified that it was an accident , saying that she had given a slap to the child who had hit her head on a wall, falling unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter , so decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag . She then asked the help of her brother to dispose of the body of her own daughter , which she said came to pass at a site in the vicinity of the house . Like her uncle , the mother of Joan also have apologized to the dark, as well as the state of panic that would meet , not knowing where to put her daughter's body . This is , incidentally , the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to PJ about where laid the body prove completely false .
Lately , Joana's mother is taking the idea of finding psychologically affected with the case , verifying that often " says nothing to something," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation .
After hearing the two suspects , Judge of Criminal gathered to decide on enforcement measures to apply , calling to his presence the mother and uncle of Joana around 1:30 a.m. . It was then reported that Leonor Cipriano would be in custody and João Cipriano who would freely through the term of identity and residence and daily presentations authorities ( GNR Silves ).

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-confessa-morte-da-filha-por-acidente

What a load of rubbish John...who is she supposed to have confessed to?

[Mr Gray]

Is the Supreme Court official ruling document not sufficient source for you Dave?

"II. FUNDAMENTATION

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

ao) the arguidos did not place the shoes that the minor was wearing, inside the bags, and all the pairs of shoes that the minor was using that summer, stayed inside the house;

ao) os arguidos não colocaram os sapatos que a menor tinha calçados nos sacos, tendo ficado em casa todos os pares de sapatos que a menor utilizava naquele Verão;

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html

http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano

You haven't posted the whole document which includes in facts considered to be proved

aj) the arguidos then decided, conjointly, to cut the minor’s body in order to make it possible to store it in the deep freezer that existed in the living room;

 al) to pursue that purpose, the arguidos provided themselves with a knife and a metal-cutting saw that were available inside the house, instruments that were apt to obtain the results that they intended, within approximately 30 minutes;


yet in her so called confession that you have posted she says she wrapped the child in a blanket. You seem to want to accept the courts ruling as a matter of fact when it isn't..I am more convinced than ever that this is a total miscarriage of justice with a dirty tricks campaign to smear the ciprianos

[stephen25000]

You haven't posted the whole document which includes in facts considered to be proved

aj) the arguidos then decided, conjointly, to cut the minor’s body in order to make it possible to store it in the deep freezer that existed in the living room;

 al) to pursue that purpose, the arguidos provided themselves with a knife and a metal-cutting saw that were available inside the house, instruments that were apt to obtain the results that they intended, within approximately 30 minutes;


yet in her so called confession that you have posted she says she wrapped the child in a blanket. You seem to want to accept the courts ruling as a matter of fact when it isn't..I am more convinced than ever that this is a total miscarriage of justice with a dirty tricks campaign to smear the ciprianos

How do you explain why they failed to contact the police that Joana was missing til the following day ?

[Eleanor]

30 Minutes to cut up a body with a domestic knife and a domestic hand saw?  I don't think so.

[Mr Gray]

How do you explain why they failed to contact the police that Joana was missing til the following day ?

 What time the following day Stephen..lets  how many facts you know

[stephen25000]

What time the following day Stephen..lets  how many facts you know

I'll amend that.

It was 2 days after she disappeared that her mother reported her missing to the local police, according to a source.

Is that the action of a loving , caring mother davel ?

[Mr Gray]

I'll amend that.

It was 2 days after she disappeared that her mother reported her missing to the local police, according to a source.

Is that the action of a loving , caring mother davel ?

 no Stephen..its lies

[stephen25000]

no Stephen..its lies

Well davel, when did she report Joana missing, and can you provide corroborated evidence of that ?

[Mr Gray]

Well davel, when did she report Joana missing, and can you provide corroborated evidence of that ?

You have made two different statements so you don't seem to be sure...do you have any independent corroboration..no

The fact is no one seems to know for sure....

[stephen25000]

You have made two different statements so you don't seem to be sure...do you have any independent corroboration..no

The fact is no one seems to know for sure....

2 sources, 2 different dates.

Here's one from the justice forum, and it wasn't Joana's mother who reported her missing.......

Hardly a loving mother, wouldn't you agree davel ?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2966.0

[Angelo222]

What a load of rubbish John...who is she supposed to have confessed to?

Are you being purposely antagonistic towards the facts in this case Dave?  She confessed to the investigative magistrate before being indicted and remanded. Surely even you can't be that thick??

Try reading it again.

However , Joana's mother , Leonor Cipriano , who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00 , came to confess to the murder of her daughter . The woman however justified that it was an accident , saying that she had given a slap to the child who had hit her head on a wall, falling unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter , so decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag . She then asked the help of her brother to dispose of the body of her own daughter , which she said came to pass at a site in the vicinity of the house.


She was HEARD Dave!!