Prosecution evidence?

[Eleanor]

They could have pled anything they liked Eleanor.  Maybe Leonor is innocent of the murder and only said what she did thinking it would help João.  Maybe João is the monster in all of this after all and killed the girl.  Maybe Leonor is guilty of nothing more than being a gullible accessory after the fact.  Only she and João know!

Wow.  Thank you.

[John]

I am still not sure that this is true, John.  I have so far not seen any evidence to support what you say.

Which part of confessed initially, subsequently pled not guilty, refused to testify and then signed a deposition blaming her brother don't you believe Eleanor?

[Eleanor]

Which part of confessed initially, subsequently pled not guilty, refused to testify and then signed a deposition blaming her brother don't you believe Eleanor?

None of it, until I see an official source.

[Anna]

you and others keep talking about the latest deposition and actually saying different things..have you actually seen it or are your posts hearsay

The statements appear to have been removed....I wonder why ?
 However they are inadmissible in court as the request for review was thrown out because of inconsistencies with her lawyer behaviour and The Cipriano's lawyer was sent out of the court when he arrived to defend at the pj trial.
    The statements basically said that Joao had taken the girl to sell and ended up killing her. He said that Leonor knew about it, but then  he changed his mind and denied it. When I can get into my storage computer I will send you a link to the whole process

[Mr Gray]

Which part of confessed initially, subsequently pled not guilty, refused to testify and then signed a deposition blaming her brother don't you believe Eleanor?

You were saying a few months ago there was lots of evidence ..when in effect there is none

[Benice]

Is the taped confession of Joao the only tape in existence?   If the PJ  had the facilities to tape the interview where he confessed  -   then why didn't they use those same faciliites to tape all of the interviews of both LC and her brother?

 

[Eleanor]

Is the taped confession of Joao the only tape in existence?   If the PJ  had the facilities to tape the interview where he confessed  -   then why didn't they use those same faciliites to tape all of the interviews of both LC and her brother?

 

Very good point.  Perhaps they did tape them, and then disappeared them because they didn't come up to scratch.

[John]

You were saying a few months ago there was lots of evidence ..when in effect there is none

That must be the most stupid comment you have ever written considering a jury found them guilty on that very same evidence which you, not being present at the trial, choose to deny.

[Carana]

Is the taped confession of Joao the only tape in existence?   If the PJ  had the facilities to tape the interview where he confessed  -   then why didn't they use those same faciliites to tape all of the interviews of both LC and her brother?

 

I can't think why...

[Eleanor]

I can't think why...

I can.

[Carana]

Is the taped confession of Joao the only tape in existence?   If the PJ  had the facilities to tape the interview where he confessed  -   then why didn't they use those same faciliites to tape all of the interviews of both LC and her brother?


 

An article about the MP magistrate's union moaning that the recommendation in the new Penal Process Code (2013) to record an arguido's first interrogation in front of an instruction judge is fine, but they don't have any equipment. This seems to concern the issue that arguidos are expected to tell the truth about any criminal history.

http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publico.pt%2Fsociedade%2Fnoticia%2Fmagistrados-do-mp-denunciam-falta-de-adaptacao-de-meios-para-ter-registo-criminal-1592770

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/magistrados-do-mp-denunciam-falta-de-adaptacao-de-meios-para-ter-registo-criminal-1592770

I haven't checked whether there is any provision in the new PPC recommending CCTV in police stations, let alone audio/video recording of interviews. I somewhat doubt that the old guard PJ would have taken much notice.

I've no doubt that Portugal is moving forward, but effecting change in any institution is a very slow process.

[Eleanor]

So is there any proof of Leonor Cipriano's confession to The Magistrate?  I would seriously like to see this if there is any.

[Carana]

So is there any proof of Leonor Cipriano's confession to The Magistrate?  I would seriously like to see this if there is any.

There's this in which she apparently did.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg103417#msg103417

However, if she'd been made to sign on the dotted line at the PJ, appearing before a magistrate would be a formality. From what I can gather, if indeed she had actually done so, it would have been read out to her and she'd have to have formally acknowledged it (or denied it).

Acknowledging it doesn't mean anything in my view as there's no way of knowing what potential carrots and sticks she'd faced during interrogation in terms of intimidation, threats or a prospect of not being prosecuted for murder if she agreed to an accidental death.

I find it perfectly plausible that she could have falsely confessed to an accidental death with a lesser sentence so that Leandro could continue to look after the kids for a few years and try to find Joana. At the time, the PJ didn't even have to present her with the evidence against her... they could just bluff. The alternative was the prospect of a 25-year sentence.

[Eleanor]

Ah, I see.  After several hours of interrogation during which no Lawyer was present.  So we have a possible similar situation to that which Kate McCann was subjected.  Confess to a lessor crime or we will get you for Murder.

Is there any signed statement by Leonor Cipriano at this point?

[Carana]

Ah, I see.  After several hours of interrogation during which no Lawyer was present.  So we have a possible similar situation to that which Kate McCann was subjected.  Confess to a lessor crime or we will get you for Murder.

Is there any signed statement by Leonor Cipriano at this point?

If she hadn't, I don't see how she could have been charged in the first place.