Worth a read.
Matt Oldfield
And we were all there, apart from Dave and Fiona and Fiona's mother, Dianne, at sort of five to nine, and they were, they were always sort of fairly relaxed and sort of a bit late and disorganised, I mean, that's a bit unfair, but they were certainly, they'd always be pretty much the last to arrive, they were always late for most things and you could see the light on in their apartment, you could see it from the Tapas and you could see them moving around so you knew they were still there. And so I decided that I'd go back and short of chivvy them along, because I felt a bit bad that, you know, there's just us in this restaurant, as there had been most of the week, there weren't often, erm, on one night they had a quiz and there were a few sort of more tables, erm, around that were occupied, but most of the time it was just us and I felt a bit bad that we said we'd be there at half eight and, you know, it was getting later and later and it was now coming to nine and we hadn't even got the table there to get ready to order, but by this time in the week we knew what we were going to order, so I told Rach, you know, I'll have whatever it was, I think it was, erm, probably sardines because, you know, they were pretty good, erm, so I put my order in for her to order if the waiter came back and went to try and sort of chivvy them along. But as I was leaving the Tapas area, you know, and their light going off and knowing that they were coming down and on their way, and on my way up, about at that top corner before you turn left to get round the back, as you go up the top of the hill, we sort of passed on the way down and they were on their way to the restaurant, but it seemed a bit silly not to go ahead and just sort of check on G****, even though we'd only been down there about fifteen minutes, but that was sort of a convenient time to go and do it. So I went and listened, I went, I found the time, because we'd only just been in there about fifteen minutes ago, and I just listened outside her shutters, so I just passed along that wall that goes to the two, sort of to the McCANN's apartment, so I listened outside our shutters and went along to their shutter and had a listen out there, not because I'd been asked to, but, or it's not the sort of thing you think about, it's just kind of, erm,".
4078 "You thought you might as well?"
Reply "So I thought I might as well and I can report back and they can be, you know, be reassured that everything was okay. And we talked a lot in the previous interviews about what state the shutters were in, whether they were, and they were all definitely down, there's three shutters, you know, there's, you know, two, and they're all at the same level, there was no, I would have noticed if they were, if one was up and the rest were down, it would have looked odd".
4078 "And how long would you have listened for outside that particular window?"
Reply "Erm, five or ten seconds".
4078 "It is long enough, presumably, for you to have stood still, so that you weren't making a noise yourself?"
Reply "Yeah, you'd have been fairly comfortable that you'd have heard somebody if they were sort of crying or sort of whimpering".
4078 "And did you notice anybody else around?"
Reply "No, there was nobody, you don't, you can't see the doorway from that point because it's round a, you have to go round the corner, so not into that, I didn't go into that area, but I didn't hear anything, I didn't see anything".
4078 "Okay. So what sort of time was it when you did that listening check outside Madeleine's room?"
Reply "Well this would have been, I'd have set off about five to nine or just before nine, and so that round trip would have taken me three or four minutes maybe, because on this occasion I didn't go into our apartment, so it was just walk up, sort of ten or twenty seconds outside the two shutters and then back round".
4078 "Do you remember what the weather was like then?"
Reply "Erm, it wasn't, erm, not specifically, it was a better day on the Thursday than it was on the Wednesday, because we had rain, and I think it was sort of warmer and bit more clear, I don't remember the, it may have been a bit cloudy, but I don't remember specifically".
4078 "Okay".
Reply "I think the moon was out later on so, I had the impression that the moon was out later on, so it may not have been, it may have been more clear".
4078 "And you said it was just turning dark?"
Reply "Yeah".
4078 "But it was turning dark. I am just trying to sort of illustrate whether there was any light on that area, if you would have been able to see if it was?"
Reply "Well it wasn't murky, I mean, you were close to the shutters, they're sort of white and they're lined, I think it'd be fairly obvious if there was a dark gap along the bottom, if they'd been raised particularly".
4078 "Okay. So take me through from there then, what happened after that?"
Reply "So, erm, back to the table, erm, we have, oh, back to the table, Gerry got up to go and, to go and check on his kids, I mean, and I'd come back and said, you know, I didn't hear any noise when I listened outside your room, so I thought it was a little bit odd that, you know, not kind of a wounded pride that he sort of didn't trust me, but, erm, I just thought, oh, you know, I've just checked you don't really need to check and sort of, you know, sort of go back, but, erm, he sort of got up and went back to check on, erm, on his kids. But, you know, you don't, you know, we're all sort of responsible for our own children and you wouldn't sort of say, you know, you don't need to do that, I just sort of felt, oh I've listened, you don't need to do that because I've kind of just done it, but I hadn't gone into the apartment, so, erm".
4078 "Did you actually say that or you just thought that to yourself?"
Reply "Yeah, I thought that, you know, I'd said that everything was sort of quiet, I listened outside the shutters, but, you know, they went back up, erm, and said he was going to check. Erm, I know that Jane went, erm, went up, and I think that's because E*** had been, I think E*** had not been well that morning and I think that's, I can't remember whether she had any breakfast, but I don't think she'd been particularly well that morning, or she was sort of a bit off colour not sort of being particularly unwell, but maybe, I think the kids hadn't settle particularly well and that's why they, erm, Russell and Jane had come separately in the evening, and so she went back, erm, to check on, presumably to check on, to check on her kids and then came back and we, erm, had starters by then".
4078 "Okay. So Gerry has gone off almost straight away after you got back?"
Reply "Yeah".
Jane Tanner
4078 “Backtrack a little. How long after Gerry had gone was it before you went to do your check?”
Reply “Well I think it must have been, well it must have been at least five minutes, if not more, because, I say, because he was gone, before I actually left there had been the conversations about him being waylaid. So, I mean, if, I think it must have been sort of five or ten minutes, five or ten minutes after he’d gone. I can’t say for sure, but”.
Reply “Yeah. Erm, I’m just trying to, well I’ve walked out of the, walked out of the, erm, the Tap, you know, walked sort of into the reception of the Tapas Bar and obviously walked up the road. I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then. Oh I’m sidetracking a bit, but that’s why I knew one of the pictures in the paper wasn’t from the holiday, because I hadn’t got jeans on the holiday with me, so. Erm, yeah, and I’d got cropped trousers on and just flip-flops, so I can remember sort of walking, I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak. Erm, and I walked, I was walking up the road and I can’t remember exactly, I know this, I know, I think Gerry thinks he was somewhere different to where I think they were standing, but I was fairly sure, as I walked up the road, they were standing, one of them was in the road and one of them was just on the edge of the pavement, but I thought it was on the side of the road that I was walking, but I know Gerry thinks they were the other side. But I thought they were closer by, because as I walked by, I almost did go to sort of acknowledge them and I thought at that point ‘Oh they were cha cha cha’ and I did think, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t know whether they’d seen me or not, but I did actually go to acknowledge them and I think if they’d have been that far away I don’t know whether I would have sort of almost gone to say hello, but. But they were talking quite (inaudible), so I just carried on, you know, up, up the road. I mean, I thought they were, as you’re going up here, I thought they were more, erm, again I know this is where me and Gerry differ, but I thought they were sort of more near the little alleyway. I think sort of”.
4078 “Is that the alleyway, sorry, would that be (inaudible)?”
Reply “Yeah, sort of here. I thought they were sort of round this sort of bit here”.
4078 “Yeah, so on the plan that you have drawn can you put a cross where you”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “I know you are uncertain because you think Gerry’s recollection is different, but as far as you can remember”.
Reply “Well I think one of them was in the road and I think, I thought it was Jez in the road because he had the pram. And I don’t know which, I can’t remember which way he was facing. No, I mean, I think I remember in my statement I did say, but I can’t remember now which way he was facing. And I thought Gerry was almost like on the edge of the pavement or just, just in the road sort of, but definitely sort of by that, sort of more by this alleyway. I don’t think they were by the apartment gate, I thought they were sort of a bit further down, down the road than that”.
4078 “So where would the apartment gate be then?”
Reply “Probably here I should think”.
4078 “And that would lead down to the roadside door of their apartment or the poolside door of their apartment?”
Reply “That leads to the poolside door”.
4078 “Right. So you think they were quite a bit further down?”
Reply “I think, yeah, I mean, somewhere within this, I don’t think they were right outside the gate for sure. I don’t, I’m not sure, but they were definitely, I definitely can’t remember them being right over here, purely because I know I did go to acknowledge them and I don’t think if they were over there I would have thought to acknowledge them. Because it was almost like ‘Oh did I ignore them as I walked past’, you know, it was almost that thought in my head, you know, ‘Should I have stopped to say hello’. And now obviously I wished I bloody had. But, you know, sort of, so I think, I, I’m still convinced they were nearer to that side of the road than that side of the road”.
4078 “So you come out of the Tapas Bar and presumably you have walked along that way, have you?”
Reply “Yeah, I’ve come out here, through the gate”.
4078 “And that is up the hill, is it?”
Reply “And up the hill, yeah”.
4078 “And when you have gone past Gerry and Jez whereabouts have they been in relation to you?”
Reply “If I’m walking this way, they were sort of”.
4078 “So they were to your right?”
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “Okay. Go on”.
Reply “So, yeah, so I went past them, erm, up to the, and then walking up to the top of the road and then, as I got to the top, this person, somebody walked across the top of the road with, with a child. And obviously at that point I just thought ‘Oh it’s somebody taking their kid to bed’, so to speak”.
4078 “What about other people, what other noises?”
Reply “No, I mean, there was no, apart from Gerry, well apart from Gerry and Jez there was nobody else around. And I think when you went down to the, often when we went down to the, erm, Tapas Bar there was people then because it was earlier and I think a lot of people had said we’re eating earlier, so were often going home almost as we were coming down, so you would see people walking around then, whereas, as it got later, it did turn into more sort of a ghost town type, so. So, yeah, I didn’t really see anybody. I’d say, I think, again, which made me thought it was even odder, I think when I’d been to check other nights at that time I probably hadn’t seen anybody before, it was more earlier that you saw people carrying their children around”.
4078 “What time would this have been around?”
Reply “I’d say it was around ten past nine’ish”.
Jeremy Wilkins
We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening-in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8.15 pm – 8.30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I couldn't see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out of the top road. I met him near some stairs and a ground floor flat.
There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said 'you're on walking duty'. I said I was staying in and the pro's and con's and what to do with the children. He said that if he was staying two (2) weeks, he may stay in one night. I don't remember anyone else walk past with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes. He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far.
I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I knew to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I knew him to be a diabetic specialist. We met him on the plane on the way to the destination. Matt said words to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said he had seen me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained in the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed.
