The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.

[Anna]

So?

So you are saying that the café owner who was an independent witness could be lying too, including all the independent witnesses at the trial

[Redblossom]

Whether or not she was kidnapped or killed / murdered by family members, someone seeing her walking towards home doesn't prove that she actually got back home. The only other detail that she might have done seems to be this uncorroborated statement about shoes.

What about children who are kidnapped on their way to school? Does one witness who saw a kid on the road to school prove that they actually got there? Or children walking to a bus stop? Would one testimony prove that they actually got on the bus?

You should have made that point clear in your previous post then.....the discussion was about when she went missing and who she was last seen by...before getting there or not.....nothing to do whether she got home or not
 >@@(*&)

You do confuse me sometimes.....

[Redblossom]

So you are saying that the café owner who was an independent witness could be lying too, including all the independent witnesses at the trial

I never said any such thing, perhaps you misunderstood...

[Anna]

I never said any such thing, perhaps you misunderstood...

She was LAST SEEN at 8.30  I stand corrected, Why didn't you just correct me?

[Redblossom]

She was LAST SEEN at 8.30  I stand corrected, Why didn't you just correct me?

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OK Carana,
 She went missing 12 sep 2004 at around 8.30 pm when she was last seen near the church with a shopping bag


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I did correct you.....in my later post

I dont know if those were your words or someone elses but I did say they werent right.....sorry, no offense.....

[Carana]

Reports vary as to when she went out / was last seen. However, the independent witnesses seem to agree more or less.

The lady at the shop said that she saw her at around 20:20 / 20:30

A testemunha NN, proprietária da "Pastelaria ...", declarou que no dia 12 de Setembro a CC apareceu na pastelaria, pelas 8h 20m / 8 h 30m, a comprar um pacote de leite e duas latas de atum.

and the lady at the window saw her walking home at around 20:30 / 20:40.

Witness AA3, at around 8.30/8.40 p.m., saw CC [Joana Cipriano] walking up the stairs near the market, into the direction of her home, with a bag, a sign that she was returning from shopping (and we know that she did the shopping, from the deposition of witness NN). This witness, who was smoking at the window, stayed at the window for some time and verified that there was no movement on location, nor did she see any cars, or heard any screams. This means that, according to the rules of experience, and given the fact that the route is short, what is normal is that the minor returned home.

[Redblossom]

Only by 10 mins, and?.....

[Anna]

----

OK Carana,
 She went missing 12 sep 2004 at around 8.30 pm when she was last seen near the church with a shopping bag


----


I did correct you.....in my later post

I dont know if those were your words or someone elses but I did say they werent right.....sorry, no offense.....

My fault I think..Sorry

[Redblossom]

My fault I think..Sorry

No worries no sorries....honest misunderstandings by me or you or anyone else are ok!
 

[Anna]

Reports vary as to when she went out / was last seen. However, the independent witnesses seem to agree more or less.

The lady at the shop said that she saw her at around 20:20 / 20:30

A testemunha NN, proprietária da "Pastelaria ...", declarou que no dia 12 de Setembro a CC apareceu na pastelaria, pelas 8h 20m / 8 h 30m, a comprar um pacote de leite e duas latas de atum.

and the lady at the window saw her walking home at around 20:30 / 20:40.

Witness AA3, at around 8.30/8.40 p.m., saw CC [Joana Cipriano] walking up the stairs near the market, into the direction of her home, with a bag, a sign that she was returning from shopping (and we know that she did the shopping, from the deposition of witness NN). This witness, who was smoking at the window, stayed at the window for some time and verified that there was no movement on location, nor did she see any cars, or heard any screams. This means that, according to the rules of experience, and given the fact that the route is short, what is normal is that the minor returned home.

So, She either made  it home in the window 8.40 ...8.45pm or was picked up.
If she walked back in the other direction, she would most likely have been seen again by these same witnesss

[Carana]

Whichever way she went to or headed back from that errand, it's roughly a 5-minute walk each way, plus waiting time in the café/shop.

Little MariLuz (Spain) disappeared on her way to/from buying a packet of crisps in her own village and never got home.

[Anna]

Whichever way she went to or headed back from that errand, it's roughly a 5-minute walk each way, plus waiting time in the café/shop.

Little MariLuz (Spain) disappeared on her way to/from buying a packet of crisps in her own village and never got home.

Yes Carana, That poor little mite was found dead though. All these innocent little children . It's so very sad

[Carana]

And killed by a neighbour with a history of child abuse who should have been in prison, but the system screwed up and he was still on the streets. If what I've read is accurate.

[Anna]

Whichever way she went to or headed back from that errand, it's roughly a 5-minute walk each way, plus waiting time in the café/shop.

Little MariLuz (Spain) disappeared on her way to/from buying a packet of crisps in her own village and never got home.

I think it is 5 minutes walking for an adult, not sure about a child. She left the café more than 5 mins before she was seen at church. I need to check the times again, something not right

[Redblossom]

I think it is 5 minutes walking for an adult, not sure about a child. She left the café more than 5 mins before she was seen at church. I need to check the times again, something not right

Maybe check why  a mother  sends her eight yr old child to walk 500 metres around this part and that part two hours after the sun has gone down! and then doesnt miss her for ages and then doesnt report her missing for ages......maybe thats "normal" in some parts....though