Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.

[Rogerandout]

We need to sort this out. Perhaps a separate thread.

[Redblossom]

Ham is processed meat I am talking about  a fresh joint of pork.

What about it? And what is the relevnce, if any......there is none....As i said, clutchng at straws

[Rogerandout]

Thanks for the concern but I don't feel confused at all. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well and ended up confusing you?

If the dog alerts to a body and if in that particular spot the body is found under the floorboards then the evidence of the dog alerting in this instance would lead to direct evidence and carry greater weight.

If the dog alerted in a room and no body was found and therefore no direct evidence then the dog alert could still be used as circumstantial evidence but it would be much more difficult to convince a jury. Therefore less weight is given to this type of evidence.

The dog alert would LEAD To further evidence that was direct. The dog alert can never be direct evidence itself, only an indication or intelligence. That is my point.

Dog evidence is always circumstantial even when apparently confirmed because it can never be direct evidence.

[Rogerandout]

What about it? And what is the relevnce, if any......there is none....

Mr Grime:

In training the dog has accurately alerted to a 1 cm cube of pork soaked in

 petrol for 1 week and then burnt until only a residue remains.


http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

[colombosstogey]

What about it? And what is the relevnce, if any......there is none....As i said, clutchng at straws

lol, this thread is the funniest thing on the Internet. God I hope the dogs wernt jews lol. You couldnt make it up could you Red.

Martin Grimes shops in Tesco didnt yer know lol. Can I have a leg of pork please I am going to train my pooches to find human cadaver scent he he.

They use pseudo scents sometimes if they cannot get anything with human DNA etc, its not like a leg of pork lol.

The trainers often use:

Wasnt Martin Grimes from the UK police so he would have access to training materials so he would hardly have needed to use pseudo scents.

 Dogs have been trained with any mammalian meat or blood but cadaver dogs learn best with human DNA. Although police handlers can legally get a hold of body parts and store it in a freezer, the volunteer cadaver search dog handler cannot.  Volunteers may be able to work out an arrangement with doctors or dentists to get a hold of material cut from patients.  Even a rotting tooth can be used as a training aid. 

A dog trained on human cadavar can tell the difference between an item with pseudo scent.

The dog isnt stupid. Even though the dog is trained on pseudo scent to match a human cadavar this still enables them with 100 per cent accuracy to find a dog body or traces of one.

Jeez if you go on the real Internet and read about the real K9 experts it explains it to the pro mcannites lol.

Martin Grimes comes with a brilliant C.V and his expertise is amazing in the field of Canine Training.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/martin-grime/8/4a7/972

Great laugh anyway going to go off and watch some serious telly.

[Lace]

Oh not this hogwash again!

- Eddie does not alert to food, never has done
- To suggest nothng is done to meat to process it for human consumption is ridiculous
- A joint of ham does not smell like a decomposed body!
- Clutchhg at straws comes to mind

eta

- Eddie cant tell the difference between the scent of a decomposed pig and the scent of a decomposed human.....because they are so similar....thats all....nothng to do with food at all

Out of interest Red,  what exactly do you think they do to a fresh joint of meat,  before it is sent to the shops?

[Cariad]

Out of interest Red,  what exactly do you think they do to a fresh joint of meat,  before it is sent to the shops?

Before it becomes a joint, it's slaughtered, bled, has all it's innards removed, washed in boiling and shaved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_slaughter

Processing of animal parts[edit]
After it is cut into pieces, the meat from the animal is then processed further into edible products.
The buttocks are salted and pressed in order to eventually produce ham. The ribcage meat is salted and smoked in order to get bacon.[6] Salt is rubbed thoroughly into each piece of meat and all surfaces are covered. Some formulas also include lots of black pepper. The bulk of the meat is cut and ground to produce various sausages, which are traditionally wrapped into the intestines of various sizes.[6]

I don't know if the bolded sentence is just referring to the shoulder or all the meat? It's not very clear.

Anyway, dead humans are not usually treated in the above manner. The difference in smells might be down to immediate separation of blood and organs from the meat. Most decomposition is caused by the bacteria in the stomach isn't it?

 

[Lace]

Well if Eddie alerted to pork then it doesn't make a lot of difference by the sound of it.   It was a cube of pork he used and not some of the innards of the pig.

[Cariad]

Well if Eddie alerted to pork then it doesn't make a lot of difference by the sound of it.   It was a cube of pork he used and not some of the innards of the pig.

It's alright, I've found the answer courtesy of the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2515969/Humans-evolved-female-chimpanzee-mated-pig-Extraordinary-claim-American-geneticist.html

  

[Rogerandout]

Splitting hairs.

My original post was in reference to there being different types of evidence and that it is incorrect to use the term "evidence is evidence".

I used the dogs to attempt to explain what corroborating evidence was needed to determine a "direct evidence" hit from the dogs.

Evidence IS evidence. It needs to be interpreted appropriately. All is still evidence.

There can NEVER be a direct evidence hit from the dogs, merely a circumstantial one. Dog alerts can only ever be circumstantial even if later 'confirmed' by other evidence, because the possibility remains that their reaction was one of chance and not therefore necessarily indicative directly of the occurrence posited.

This is simple Philosophy of Causation.

[Rogerandout]

There is now a separate thread where Mr Grime's statements on Pork are listed.

He is either confused or has mis-spoken as all three sets of statements cannot be correct.

[ferryman]

No, there's nothing of that kind except in your dreams.

Mark Harrison's summary of searches:

The timeline of these searches was as follows:
 
On 31-07-07 the PJ conducted canine searches with a search warrant at apartments in Praia da Luz that had been previously occupied by the McCanns and their friends.
 
On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.
 
On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.
 
On 03-08-07 PJ and GNR officers were given instruction based on translated extracts from NPIA doctrine on search management and procedures. This focused on search procedures relating to buildings and vehicles.
 
On 04-08-07 and 05-08-07 a search warrant was executed at the villa and gardens belonging to the PJ suspect Robert Murat. This search involved both PJ and GNR personnel supported by civil defence, geophysical equipment operators and a canine handler.
 
On 06-08-07 ten vehicles were searched associated to the enquiry.
 
On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
 
On 08-08-07 the drains around the apartment block where Madeleine McCann disappeared from were subject to a visual inspection by PJ officers.

Harrison acknowledges canine input only at those searches he recommended: the holiday apartments, areas in and around PdL and the Murats' place.

Both inspections at villa and gym, Harrison summarises as PJ exercises.

And Harrison waited until after both inspections at villa and gym to give PJ personnel translated instructions on how to conduct searches in buildings and vehicles.

Harrison only ever said that vehicles owned or driven by Murat should be inspected. 

8 vehicles Harrison never said anything about (including 7 owned or driven by people never arguidos in the investigation) were in the line-up; while 1 vehicle (hired by Murat) never made the line-up

Harrison gives no clue who took part in that inspection.

And why did Amaral lie that Harrison said Madeleine was definitely dead and her concealed remains somewhere very close to the apartments?

Harrison never said anything like it.

Harrison just worked to the brief he was handed by the PJ.

[Lace]

It's alright, I've found the answer courtesy of the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2515969/Humans-evolved-female-chimpanzee-mated-pig-Extraordinary-claim-American-geneticist.html

  

     Well they do say Pig Meat taste the same as human meat,   plus they use pigs hearts for heart transplants.   

Snort.

[Rogerandout]

Ok let's call a truce and agree to disagree?

In answer to your original post, for me there is insufficient proof to say the McCanns are guilty of anything other than leaving the children alone and yet I still after all this time have my suspicions about them.

This for me is because of the many inconsistencies or what seems to me illogical behaviours. I could not say for sure Madeleine was abducted and I cannot say for sure she wasn't.

I suppose any anger comes from the idea that people can close their eyes and ears to anything else other than abduction. For me all possibilities should remain on the table.

But I am one of the few people who has no fixed views about what happened. I seek to convince the deluded that they are operating way above their competence.

[John]

But I am one of the few people who has no fixed views about what happened. I seek to convince the deluded that they are operating way above their competence.

How can you possibly call anyone 'deluded' when it still isn't known what happened to Madeleine?

There is still little evidence to prove prominence of any theory that she was abducted, she died or she wandered off.