Front Door to Mccanns Apartment Unlocked....Why?

[CPN]

If the Mccanns had decided to stay in the apartment that night and  drank alcohol, forgot to close the doors/windows or failed to secure the place etc how would you feel then CPN?

If, as responsible parents, they drank so much alcohol that they forgot to lock up properly, then yes, that would be their responsibility.

These are values which tend to disappear with the increase of insurances against anything.
A car almost kills you, why should it brake, the driver's got a civil insurance that will pay the funeral and a small compensation.

Insurance may well pay for the funeral.  It can never bring back the person who was killed, nor compensate for all the losses that follow on from the death.

[drummer]

Where do you draw the line? Three drinks make me tipsy, if I have one or two more I would consider myself to be rather merrier than usual but not falling down drunk.

[AnneGuedes]

If, as responsible parents, they drank so much alcohol that they forgot to lock up properly, then yes, that would be their responsibility.

Insurance may well pay for the funeral.  It can never bring back the person who was killed, nor compensate for all the losses that follow on from the death.

But who cares more than feeling sorry ? As long as it doesn't affect one's purse.

[drummer]

It's called humanity.

[colombosstogey]

Did Mrs Oldfield deduce from what she heard (leaving or not the door-window slightly open) that they lifted the shutter to enter (since she effectively saw those shutters were shut) ?
She might have seen the shutters closed on the other nights, when going back home. I don't think Mrs Oldfield ever checked, she was afraid of the false pepper trees' shadows.

It makes no sense does it, to shut the patio door shutters down and then go check, unless of course you were using the front door which was unlocked. IF THE patio door shutters down perhaps they would do that to stop the child from coming out on her own?

Either way can you imagine how often the shutters would have had to go up that night, the noise alone you would hear in the Tapas bar.

So much about the statements in this case make no sense.

[colombosstogey]

Thank you!!

PS I thnk 2 and 1/4 yr old  kids are perfectly capable of climbing out of a small travel cot.....

I agree, I had my grandson stay with me when he was two, and he managed to get out whilst i was getting the other one (older) ready for bed lol, little monkey. I think some children are very forward and fast. My youngest daughter would not have been capable, but my grandson who likes climbing was...

[CPN]

Where do you draw the line? Three drinks make me tipsy, if I have one or two more I would consider myself to be rather merrier than usual but not falling down drunk.

If you are responsible for young children you draw the line BEFORE you lose your sense of proportion and carefulness

[Meadow]

I have never fully understood the locking of the main front door.  Despite years of trying.  IMHO it was a slam lock, probably with a latch\lever on the inside to dead lock, remember the old fashioned Yale type locks.

But it would also be DEADLOCKED from outside, if you read JT's Roggie statement she describes locking the door so her daughter could NOT get *out.

There are so many locks and lever systems, and I really have no idea what types they use in Portugal.

Therefore the status of the front door was locked so no one unless they had a key could get IN.  But anyone could get *OUT.  The door could afteral, only be deadlocked from outside (i.e. turn the barrel twice)

Therefore it would have been IMHO very possible for an abductor to have entered via the rear sliding & unlocked patio door and mere WALKED OUT OF THE FRONT main door.

Then!!

Of course, begs the question

What's with the shutters and windows.

A Break in:   And for convenience of the conversation, as fully explained in the Sun Times, ''Beyond the smears''  The cleaners were in the habit of leaving the windows unlocked.  That explains no broken glass

A Break out:  Really, with a door you can walk through!

[AnneGuedes]

It makes no sense does it, to shut the patio door shutters down and then go check, unless of course you were using the front door which was unlocked. IF THE patio door shutters down perhaps they would do that to stop the child from coming out on her own?

Either way can you imagine how often the shutters would have had to go up that night, the noise alone you would hear in the Tapas bar.

So much about the statements in this case make no sense.

Perhaps they used to listen to the door-window shutters, leaving the door-window slightly open to hear better. If they had to go to the bathroom or watch football's results on TV they would enter through the real door (i.e an item you can open from both sides).
There's no logical explanation for the fuss about the crying episode and the leaving the door-window open on that precise night whereas they said it was "usual practice".

[AnneGuedes]

I have never fully understood the locking of the main front door.  Despite years of trying.  IMHO it was a slam lock, probably with a latch\lever on the inside to dead lock, remember the old fashioned Yale type locks.
Hi Meadow !
This lock (now no more used because it was too easy to get in with some bankcard if it wasn't deadlocked) is deadlockable (one or two turns) from both sides.
If you just slam the door, you will be able to open it again
- from the outside with a key (or a bankcard, not in the case of 5A because of a screw)
- from the inside pulling a latch
If you're in and want a basic protection, you better deadlock with the key (and leave the key in place in case of emergency). I didn't use to do that and once somebody got in, stole a lot of things before realising we were in (we heard a noise but interpreted it another way..).


A Break in:   And for convenience of the conversation, as fully explained in the Sun Times, ''Beyond the smears''  The cleaners were in the habit of leaving the windows unlocked.  That explains no broken glass
People don't use to leave unlocked ground floor windows, even if entering this way isn't properly easy.

[colombosstogey]

Where do you draw the line? Three drinks make me tipsy, if I have one or two more I would consider myself to be rather merrier than usual but not falling down drunk.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-564044/Three-British-children-taken-care-middle-class-parents-drink-stupor-Algarve.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206007/British-couple-arrested-abandoning-child-drunk-exonerated-Portuguese-social-workers.html

Shame the PJ/GNR were not so vigilant on the night of the 3rd May with all these chldren abandoned in apartments whilst the parents went out to drink. 8 bottles of wine apparantly lots a lot of vino.....

Hope this works...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&oq=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&aqs=chrome..69i57.967j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

[Rogerandout]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-564044/Three-British-children-taken-care-middle-class-parents-drink-stupor-Algarve.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206007/British-couple-arrested-abandoning-child-drunk-exonerated-Portuguese-social-workers.html

Shame the PJ/GNR were not so vigilant on the night of the 3rd May with all these chldren abandoned in apartments whilst the parents went out to drink. 8 bottles of wine apparantly lots a lot of vino.....

Hope this works...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&oq=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&aqs=chrome..69i57.967j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

The final feeling about this was that it was an over-rection by various agnecies as chinese whispers magnified by McCann paranoia took over.

No charges were filed, the children were returned and the couple were exonerated.

[stephen25000]

The final feeling about this was that it was an over-rection by various agnecies as chinese whispers magnified by McCann paranoia took over.

No charges were filed, the children were returned and the couple were exonerated.

Exonerated ???

The Mccanns actions by leaving their children in an 'unlocked' apartment led to the disappearance of Madeleine.

[Benice]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-564044/Three-British-children-taken-care-middle-class-parents-drink-stupor-Algarve.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206007/British-couple-arrested-abandoning-child-drunk-exonerated-Portuguese-social-workers.html

Shame the PJ/GNR were not so vigilant on the night of the 3rd May with all these chldren abandoned in apartments whilst the parents went out to drink. 8 bottles of wine apparantly lots a lot of vino.....

Hope this works...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&oq=young+mother+arrested+in+uk+for+going+to+pub+and+leaving+her+children&aqs=chrome..69i57.967j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

How likely is it for 9 people to drink 8 bottles of wine in an hour - whilst consuming a three course meal at the same time?   Not very IMO.       

The number of bottles put on the table is not proof of how much of that wine had actually been consumed when the alarm was given only an hour after the meal was ordered.

It's not as if they went out for a drink in a pub  - they went to a restaurant for their evening meal - which included wine.

IIRC Witnesses confirmed that at no time did anyone appear to be inebriated - and there were no reports from the GNR or PJ that anyone appeared to be under the influence of alcohol. 
   

[slartibartfast]

IIRC Witnesses confirmed that at no time did anyone appear to be inebriated - and there were no reports from the GNR or PJ that anyone appeared to be under the influence of alcohol. 
   

Do you have a link for that, it has always seemed a fuzzy area in the files. (Genuine question - I have always thought trying to work out a timeline of an evening after having had a number of drinks would be difficult, speaking from personal experience, you tend to be able to put things to within 30 mins.)